Looking for tiny gun with low recoil

[Dolomite_supafly]

NAA mini revolve in 22 mag would be hard to beat.

I would be willing to bet the velocity is hardly better than a 22 short with the shortest barrel. It does bring extra bullet weight but is it worth all the blast and recoil? They are hard to hang on to as well. I would rather have a 22lr version and load it with a Velocitor or the SSS. See the film I linked above. It is out of a NAA revolver and penetrating 9 inches.

If anyone wants their 22 mag NAA chronographed let me know. I will meet you in the Knoxville area wherever you want. It will be an eye opening experience.

Dolomite

[Guest Lester Weevils]

That is neat the PLY 22 has worked reliable and trigger is not stiff (though long pull).

One site said that the PLY 22 is made in usa? Am guessing a typo but can't immediately find a contradicting statement? Does Taurus make some product in USA?

The stainless lavendar model would be perfection incarnate if they would only add rhinestones and pearl grips!

[Guest bulluck533]

Purple guns

[Dolomite_supafly]

As I said my PLY 22 has become very reliable. I bought it here for $100 because it wouldn't cycle. It took some work to figure it out but now it is something I trust as my last resort gun. I have only been without my main carry gun for 5 days in the last 4 years so I doubt I would ever need the PLY but I do trust it if I do.

Dolomite

[enfield]

I'd buy her a pepper spray.

[hornett22]

P238

Sr22

Deringer

[wjh2657]

I'm sorry but I don't buy recommending a .22 LR,.22 Mag or .25 to anyone for self defense. Obviously the lady is not a combat vet, so she is not going to go into the "Gunfighter mindset" when confronted. So we can forget the "shooting his eyes out" accuracy argument here. Although a small caliber gun can and does kill, it doesn't stop. The goal in SD is to stop the trouble before it gets to you. A .22 to the body is just an "adrenaline trigger" and really likely to PO the aggressor into even more violent action.

You are presenting the same argument as the car buyer who asks for "A little car that gets 41 MPG and goes 150 MPH." You can have one or the other, mileage or speed. in handguns you can have stopping power (with hard recoil) or you can have soft recoil (with no stopping power). it just doesn't come both ways. You may have to look to some other method of security for the lady.

Edited April 26, 2012 by wjh2657

[Jonnin]

There are more variables than that (not that you are wrong). Size, weight, recoil, energy/momentum, inertia, its all just physics. There are 9mms that jump around in my hands like trying to wrestle an aligator. Other 9mms just barely have noticable recoil -- because the frame weighs 3-4 times more, it tames the recoil. I would rather shoot my ruger p89 than my friends pocket .25, the 25 hurts my hands and jerks me off target more! You can get momentum (stopping power??) without a huge recoil, but it costs weight and size.

Does it have to be a mousegun in size? The options really open up if she can tolerate a subcompact size frame, rather than just the tiny stuff. If she can handle a bit of weight, it gets even better. A makarov in 380 is TAME, very compact (though not quite mousegun sized) but excessively heavy for its size. There are a number of older, all steel 380s in this size and weight category that are excellent pieces --- bersas are in this neighborhood as well.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I think it is called the round butt grip on S&W J frame revolvers-- Maybe that is too big and maybe a steel j frame too heavy or airweight too much recoil. Maybe couldn't lighten up the trigger enough on a J frame and have it reliably go bang. Or maybe it would be too much a reach for the trigger. Just sayin that round butt grip on J frames is pretty small diameter and easy to get a hand around. It is "easy to hang onto" even with larger hands.

Kahr pistols especially the polymer ones have grips that are on the small side as well, but "easy to hang onto". But the trigger pull is long and maybe the reach to the trigger would be too far.

[Dolomite_supafly]

There two different types of incapacitation from a gunshot, physiological and psychological.

Although a .22 may not stop a determined aggressor it may stop one who is not as determined.

No handgun caliber is guaranteed to be an immediate stopper unless it is a CNS hit. And a .22 will stop just as well as a .45 when the hit is a CNS hit. And if the hit isn’t in the CNS then it falls into the second category, psychological incapacitation. This is at least the case when talking about an immediate stop of a threat.

Now with a psychological stop there are plenty of factors that contribute. Life experience is one of the biggest factors. A person who is a gang banger who has been shot previously or a soldier who has been in a war zone is less likely to succumb to a psychological stop. Likewise a house wife who has never seen any sort of violence may collapse immediately from a gunshot despite the fact it may not be life threatening.

Additionally, a person’s physical well being can contribute to whether they succumb to a psychological stop. If a person has been sick or is weak from illness or injury they may not have the ability to overcome the stress of being shot and this would also be a psychological stop.

This is a story I was told by a training officer in one of the courses I had attended. Part of the training involved someone shooting at someone using a blank firing pistol. None of the participants knew they were going to be shot at. One of the students entered the room and a trainer fired a blank from a 38 caliber pistol. The student immediately fell to the ground and did not move. The student was unresponsive at which point the instructor said he had a sinking feeling that somehow the pistol had been loaded with live ammo. Well after a few minutes the student woke up believing he had been shot. This is an example of a psychological stop. Even though the student hadn’t been harmed he felt he had and this caused him to drop.

We have all read the stories of bad guys being shot dozens of times and continue to fight. These are the bad guys who are able to overcome the psychological effects of being shot and continue the fight.

Dolomite

[Caster]

As I posted in your other thread, how about an older small caliber revolver? There are some really small Smith's, Iver Johnson, H&R & NEF pistols.

A .32 would probably fit her hand. Just be mindful that the gun is in solid shape as a lot of these are out of time. For the price some of these go for, you can afford to have a competent smith check it out first. Obviously, she isn't going to take up competition with it. A box 50 would likely carry her for the rest of her days I would guess.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Caster

[jgradyc]

If it were only a matter of size, she would have a lot more options: P3-AT, LCP, etc, but I'm certain she couldn't handle the recoil of those little guns. I'm hoping that after she shoots the little Jennings J22 and the 25ACP Beretta Bobcat, she'll be able to move up to a same-sized, but heavier, 32 auto.

I had thought the Bersa Thunder 380 would be perfect for her, but she couldn't get her finger on the trigger. That is, her hand was too small. I like the idea of the old 32 revolvers. I'll check out the Nashville gun show next week and see what's there. If the LGS nearest to her has a Sig P238, I'll definitely get her to try it out. It's expensive, but it's not like buying a car to trade every couple of years. Once she finds something, she'll probably keep it.

[Guest Papabear]

If you are considering a .22 Mini may I also suggest a .22LR Ruger Bearcat. The size would be much easier to hold and control than a mini without being to big. I have one that with only a spring change is super easy to cock the hammer on.

[jgradyc]

She was able to reach the trigger on my kahr pm9 and she was able to pull it, if I remember correctly. I didn't even consider the Kahr for her, since she couldn't handle the lightest load wadcutter I could find in 38 special. Is there a low-recoil 9mm load out there?

[Caster]

She was able to reach the trigger on my kahr pm9 and she was able to pull it, if I remember correctly. I didn't even consider the Kahr for her, since she couldn't handle the lightest load wadcutter I could find in 38 special. Is there a low-recoil 9mm load out there?

Well, even if there is, you are sacrificing reliability for it. Low power loads may not cycle as well. If you go that route, test them thoroughly.

[jgradyc]

Good point. Thanks.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

She was able to reach the trigger on my kahr pm9 and she was able to pull it, if I remember correctly. I didn't even consider the Kahr for her, since she couldn't handle the lightest load wadcutter I could find in 38 special. Is there a low-recoil 9mm load out there?

Hi jgradyc

I think recall reading that they make some commercial loads intended to be low-recoil but still operate reliably. Never investigated. When people develop light target loads for easy cheap practice, the trick is to work up a load "just powerful enough" to feed reliably on the pistols of interest.

In some "more typical" range guns, if people like shooting light loads they can often swap in a weaker recoil spring to get reliable operation with the "weakest possible" practice loads. Dunno if people ever do that with kahrs, or if it might "mess up the timing" of the gun too much. If you can't find weaker springs for the gun, it might be possible to buy a couple of replacement factory springs for experimentation, and clip off a little of the spring to see if that would lighten it up to operate on as light a load as possible. It wouldn't be an expensive experiment, though not guaranteed successful unless the experiment is conducted to find out.

Am wondering, maybe even a 9mm powder-puff load would be more potent than a .22 or .25 auto? Dunno. It seems to make sense.

I've never shot a pm9. I usually have trouble aiming real short barrel guns, which may have to do with bad eyes and short sight radius. Or maybe I can't hold the tiny grips steady enough while squeezing the trigger, with only a one or two finger grip.

But here is a thought-- Wonder if the grip dimensions and trigger spacing of the bigger kahr pistols is "about the same" as the short-barrel kahrs, except for the length of the grip? I carry a P9 with the 3.6" barrel rather than the PM9 3" barrel. It is a pretty narrow width grip, published the same width as the PM9 and also the larger 4" barrel polymer kahrs. They all have the same narrow width. MAYBE the bigger kahrs would be just as easy to grip and reach the trigger as the PM9?

My P9 doesn't feel like it has any more recoil than a full-size Beretta 92 or CZ-75. But it may be too much for your sister, unless maybe it could be reduced further with light loads. My P9 only weighs an ounce more than a PM9, and the biggest TP9 only weighs four ounces more than a PM9. The grip-spacing against the trigger distance looks about the same in the pictures, but they don't supply that dimension in the specs that I can see. http://www.kahr.com/...ls/Kahr-TP9.asp

OK, adding even more speculation-- Kahr has three heavier stainless models equivalent to the polymer models, very similar to the dimensions of the polymer models except heavier. PERHAPS, if the dimensions of the polymer models are "operable" by your sister, but even the biggest polymer TP9 has too much recoil-- Maybe one of the stainless models would be just as operable, and the increased weight could be "put up with" in order to minimize the recoil. http://www.kahr.com/...ols/Kahr-T9.asp

Given that the recoil is so neglible in my P9 at 15 ounces, then a "full size" stainless T9 might have really trivial recoil at 26 ounces. If recoil was more of an issue than weight. If your sis can keep a good handle on the gun then maybe the extra weight wouldn't be a deal-breaker?

Yeah, a lot of supposition built atop other suppositions. Have read some people claiming the kahrs have low felt recoil because the bore is unusually low and the recoil has more "push" than "flip".

Edited April 26, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[JAB]

Federal makes a 9mm Hydra Shok that they claim is low recoil. I don't know just how 'low' the recoil is as I have never shot any of that ammo (although the .380 Hydra Shoks are what I carry in my P3AT.) I guess it wouldn't hurt to try it out, huh?

[bouncer43]

The Federal Hyda Shok recently spoke of does tame my LC9 at bit. Guess it depends on how much yours needs taming.

[alwaysonjohn]

many females I know carry the walther p22 in pink... As for all the .22 haters, just know that shot placement and being comfortable shooting one is more important than the size of the caliber. The .22 creates lilttle recoil and little noise compared to other calibers which will teach her not to flinch and not to pull. If she gets a big caliber she can have a nasty habit of pulling down due to recoil then she is going to miss if she ever has to use it and I wouldn't want her to be liable for what she does end up hitting. just a thought.

[Jonnin]

a 9mm downloaded is a 380. Take it farther down than that, and the bullet weight and diameter (even a 90 grain) will not penetrate well. But you can certainly cook up working, potent, and light loads for most calibers if you can find light springs and if you are willing to handload. Revolvers are even better --- no action to cycle, you can load a 357 from a 380 all the way to a +P 357 and it will do pretty well at all those ranges. You can even use 380 bullets in it. So yes, home cooked opens many, many doors.