Loads for 9mm, .45, and .223

[gjohnsoniv]

I'm still trying to get into the whole reloading scene and was wondering what was a good load for 9mm, .45, and .223.

[Jonnin]

what is the barrel twist on your 223? The twist rate lets you pick a bullet, which helps pick a load.

I will post my notes when I get home.

[gjohnsoniv]

Not match grade, but more on the lines of practice ammo. It's a 1-9 or 1-7, but my memory is failing me right now.

[atlas3025]

Big difference between those two possibilites.

[gjohnsoniv]

I'm going with 1-7 though.

[Jonnin]

1-7 is usually a 60-80 grain bullet. 1-9 likes the 50s and low 60s.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Jonnin

[gjohnsoniv]

Highest I've ever fired is a military 65 grain steel core, so maybe it is 1-9.

[Jonnin]

well its also tied to the length of the bullet, but most folks just do it by weight. A steel core might be extra long and I forget which way the twist goes from bullet length. that is sort of dead middle between the 2, either could do decently with that weight. ??? Just look at the barrel when you get home and be sure. Lighter bullets cost less in general, but a 223, its not as intense as the the 100+ grain variation between 45s or 44s and so on. I mean, the range on a 223 is like 25 grains, from around 40 to 65 are the common weights. Pistols are less picky and for plinky ammo any weight will do (lighter = cheaper!).

[Raoul]

for .45 I'm currently using 5.0gr of unique with a 225gr RNL. Good for plinking and cost effective.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Raoul

[gjohnsoniv]

I'm just trying to figure out what to buy first in the way of powder and bullets. Also what primers do you use? Will the packs of CCI work just as well as something else, or am I missing something.

[Lumber_Jack]

buy Unique for pistol powder. They call it unique for a reason, its one of the most universal powders. once you load some, you can experiment with different powders and bullets.

I use Winchester primers, but thats just because DLM (david) recommended them. Im sure CCI is just fine.

[Raoul]

All the primers I've used have been fine except for PMC. CCI, Winchester, and Wolf all work just fine.

[gjohnsoniv]

My barrel is 1-9 talking about the .223 loads. So Unique is the best for pistol. What's the best for rifle, .308 and .223/5.56?

[Lumber_Jack]

My barrel is 1-9 talking about the .223 loads. So Unique is the best for pistol. What's the best for rifle, .308 and .223/5.56?

I've used some mil-surp from David at the gun shows, for .223. It's cheap and accurate.

Do you live in Knoxville?

[gjohnsoniv]

I've used some mil-surp from David at the gun shows, for .223. It's cheap and accurate.

Do you live in Knoxville?

Yes I do.

[Lumber_Jack]

Yes I do.

There is a gun show in Knoxville on May 5,6th. I would go see David aka dlm0375. He has the table under the big Red "Reloading Supplies" sign. He has anything you need and can point you in the right direction. There may be a multipurpose rifle powder that will be good for you too, I'm just not sure.

[MphsTiger1981]

For 9mm I like Berry's 115 grain RN plated bullets over 4.5 grains of Unique. Works well for my Glock 17.

[Jonnin]

I cannot tell one primer from another, I have tried several brands and sort of stick to winchester for no real reason except that is what I can find and have been using. Changing primers supposedly changes your load data, so stick to one brand if you can. Again, I cannot tell any difference and the same load data seems to work for any, but that is what people say.

I mostly use accurate powders, and #5 works well for all non magnum pistol calibers (its a lot like unique), I use it in 9 and 45 both (as well as 380, makarov, and others). I use 2230 in the 223 and also for light loads in larger rifles, its not a good powder for big rifle using real loads though. The only reason I really prefer their powders is they do well in my powder device. I use the 2230 in my 308 for 100-200 yard gentle rounds. I have not had a need for tons of full power loads; I bought a few of those for hunting rather than work up a hunting load as that would mean buying different bullets and different powder to make like 50 rounds total.

I use bulk cast bullets for the pistols --- http://www.missourib...dary=&keywords= for 9mm and 380s and 357 as well. I use the hornady 55 grain boat tail 223s and they are super accurate -- found a deal on 7k of them so I will be using that for a long time. I have not bought bulk 308 of any sort, bought whatever was on the shelf that day at sportsmans warehouse, sierra soft nose something or others. I do not have a preferred 308 yet as I shoot it infrequently. I am using some bulk 230 grain jacketed 45s that I got when I first started, and learned better since (copper and heavy = more pricy). I can find the brand if you want to know, but I will not buy that again.

If you want my data with this stuff I will share, if you choose another brand of powder or real actual 9mm slugs, it will not help much.

I like that cast bullet maker because they have makarov and becaue shipping is in the "whatever fits in the box" post office boxs so shipping is low.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Jonnin

[gjohnsoniv]

I think I want to do both cast and copper jacket. To start though I think I'm going to go with copper jacket because I can get that locally and then order some cast afterward.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

In 9mm, .380 and .357 have loaded lots of rainier soft lead copper plated bullets and various jacketed rounds. Am not against lead in principle. Folks say such as the missouri bulets don't lead a barrel much because there are certain hardnesses the company uses, making em not likely to lead-up a barrel at the recommended velocity ranges. The Rainier copper plated bullets work good for me and do not cost drastically more than lead. The Berry plated are probably about the same as Rainiers. At sportsmans warehouse noticed they had some other name-brand of plated bullet on the shelf that wan't real expensive, though usually can order them cheaper than at the local store.

Have always used Federal primers for no reason at all except I started with Federal and didn't want to work up loads with something else in case there would be a difference from changing out the primer. Do primers get old sitting in the box? I have a box of 1000 Win primers maybe 10 years old, never got around to using them because always could get Federal. They have been stored in reasonable temp and humidity conditions as far as I know. Noticed at the store lately the Rem primers were the cheapest "name brand" at least at that store. Some "internet experts" say rem primers work great.

My powder selection has been luck of the draw and "don't fix what ain't broke" habit as well. When I started maybe 12 years ago lots of people spoke highly of Win231 for most pistol practice loads. Web searching a few months back there are still many folks who swear by W231. It is said to be real good for .45 loads. W231 is real good for 9mm as well, except you have to load real close to a "max load" to push a 124 gn bullet hard enough to work some of the stiff-slide pistols, and it would be unsafe to try to load a 9mm 124gn real hot with W231. It is a little too fast. But many of those limitations go away if you load 9mm in 115gn or lighter bullets. I usually load 124gn bullets for no good reason except some people say that weight is the "most natural" for 9mm. If I loaded 115 gn bullets would probably still be using W231 for 9mm practice. The Ramshot Zip powder is not identical but very very close to W231. Sometimes W231 load data will directly transfer to Zip loads, and if there is a difference in min/max it is typically only one or two tenth grains difference. Ramshot publishes internet load data for their powders that covers many common combinations. People who use zip typically say it is about the same as W231 except less flash and possible even better behaved. I got a jug of zip but haven't used it yet.

W231 works good for light .38 and .357 practice loads as well, but always used Blue Dot on .357 because it was highly recommended at the time. Blue Dot always went bang and saw no reason to switch. Some people brag that blue dot is one of the better powders for real hot 9mm loads, but never tried it in 9mm. Ramshot makes True Blue that is close to Blue Dot but not quite as close as W231-Zip. Have lately been using Ramshot Sillhouette for 9mm 124 gn. The ubiquitous "internet experts" list Silhouette among the better powders for toasty 124gn 9mm loads.

I don't mean to be pushing Ramshot, just that it is working OK so far and when powder was in short supply a few years ago I bought a good bit of it. And I tend to talk too much. There are many fine powders. Ramshot lists loads for four powders which they estimate appropriate for 9mm and .45--

Competition (fastest similar to Hodgdon Clays, Vita Vuori N320 and Win WST)

Zip (very similar to W231 and in the ballpark of Hodgdon HP38, IMR 700X, Alliant Green Dot and Vihta Vuori N330)

Silhouette (in the ballpark of Alliant Unique, Hodgdon Universal Clays, Alliant Power Pistol, Hodgdon HS-6, Vihta Vuori N340, Win 540, and Alliant Herco)

True Blue (slowest in the ballpark of Hodgdon Longshot, Vihta Vuori N350, Vihta Vuori 3N38, Hodgdon HS-7, Alliant Blue Dot)

In 9mm the Silhouette and True Blue have the highest velocity max loads, both powders very close to the same max velocity. Silhouette shows insignificantly slight higher velocity than True Blue on most listed bullets.

Ramshot's load data for .45 auto shows Silhouette having a noticeably higher velocity max load than the other three powders, on nearly all listed bullet weights and styles. Strangely the faster Zip and the slower True Blue have similar max velocities on all bullet weights and styles. The ZIP is slightly higher velocity than the True Blue with some bullet weights and the opposite is true for other bullet weights, but generally very close.

Dunno if that could be generalized to other powders with similar burn rate listed above, but it would be easy to guess "something about the speed of Silhouette" is a performance sweet spot for .45, with performance slightly tailing down for powders faster or slower than that? Dunno. Maybe it is a wrong conclusion to make.

[gjohnsoniv]

I've become interested in the Lee hand loader. I think I might get one of those just for depriming and loading while watching tv. Good idea, bad idea?

[Lumber_Jack]

I've become interested in the Lee hand loader. I think I might get one of those just for depriming and loading while watching tv. Good idea, bad idea?

I've heard of people using them and liking them. I'm cool with priming and depriming while watching the tube, but when powder and bullets come into play, all other distractions should be eliminated. Just my opinion.

[gjohnsoniv]

This is true. Heard of any problems with the loader itself?

Edited April 21, 2012 by gjohnsoniv

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I got a Lee hand press last december mainly intending to use it for decapping and have been pleased with it. Got a universal decapper die and the shell holders appropriate for 9mm, .357, and .380. The shell holder that works for .380 also works for .223 but haven't loaded any .223 so far.

Also got an RCBS hand primer the same time, and have been pleased with it. User reviews on Midway and Cabelas, and internet threads googled, seemed to slightly favor the RCBS over the Lee hand primer though people like the lee as well.

I got em to process brass in the living room like shucking peas. The TV or radio will be on but I pay closer attention to the brass than the TV especially when priming. I'd rather have a hand priming tool than try to prime with the lee hand press, just because it is faster AFAIK, and works good.

Until then I would size/deprime/prime on my square deal B press. The SDB works fine for those tasks but I'd have maybe one or two messed up primers per 100 on the SDB. Mainly occasional high primers. It is because I try to use about any brass. If I would be selective and discard otherwise good looking brass that I know is tough to prime, then the SDB wouldn't hardly have a problem.

Dunno if it saves any time splitting out the deprime and prime steps from the rest of the progressive loading. Probably takes more time overall, though the deprime and prime is done when I'd be sitting on my butt in the living room anyway. The reloading is out in the shop with no radio or TV for distractions, standing up at the bench. It isn't unpleasant but can get boring after a long time at it.

When I was priming with the press, the progressive loading productivity was somewhat slow because of taking longer on each cycle careful-feeling for the primer seating trying to avoid high primers and crushed primers. Though it takes longer to split the decap and prime to separate processes, the progressive loading got lots faster on the press if I don't have to prime on the press. It is faster for me to load primers in the hand primer than to load primers in the dillon primer pickup tubes, and it is very fast to reload not worrying about priming because I only have to peek into the case and make sure the powder "looks about right" before adding a bullet and new case and pulling the lever again. I took one of my older LED headlamps and wire-tied it on the press so it is shining down into the case at the bullet-seating stage, so it is easy to see the powder level. It is at least twice as fast for me on the press, not worrying about priming.

But to repeat, am pretty sure the only reason priming on the SDB was slow, was because I was too cheap to throw away perfectly good brass merely because some brands are tougher to prime.

[gjohnsoniv]

That's why I was looking at the hand press. I know the only good place for me to put the reloader is in the shop and I don't want to sit out there to deprime and re-prime. I mean I could build a small, mobile reloading bench inside, but that might not go over well.

Edited April 21, 2012 by gjohnsoniv