Zimmerman gets $150k Bail, may get to leave FL

[Glock30]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/safety-location-at-issue-if-zimmerman-is-released-on-bond/2012/04/19/gIQAJNXZUT_story.html?wpisrc=al_national

Highlights:

-May get to leave FL on safety concerns

-Electronic monitoring

-No firearms, alcohol, drugs, and would have curfew

-Zimmerman apologized to Martin's parents, saying he didn't know he was unarmed

[MattCary]

Also said he thought he was "a little older than me."

There is a photo linked in the ABC story with a photo of the blood on Z's head.

[TripleDigitRide]

Good.

[Glock30]

I don't think the curfew will be necessary. I mean, really, would he go parading around in public?

[Jonnin]

I am now on GZ's side.

I feel that he messed up BIG by following, confronting, and so forth. Extremely poor judgement.

But it was NOT murder either. Possibly manslaughter, or one of the other accidental or incidental charges, but murder 2 is too harsh for the circumstances. This alone puts me against the prosecution fully.

Also, I agree with his bail and freedom, he turned himself in and, while I feel he made a terribad mistake, is not a criminal or thug.

What a zoo. They are going to have to pull the jurors from like cambodia or something to find someone who is not biased.

[R_Bert]

Just $150K bail ? Does not sound like a serious charge.

[Jonnin]

the judge trusts him to show for trial, not related to the charges. Bail is based off the flight risk, and you are talking about a guy who came out of hiding to turn himself in once already, someone with no record nor particular criminal bent to his behavior. No sense in a multimillion bail for this man.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I am now on GZ's side.

I feel that he messed up BIG by following, confronting, and so forth. Extremely poor judgement.

But it was NOT murder either. Possibly manslaughter, or one of the other accidental or incidental charges, but murder 2 is too harsh for the circumstances. This alone puts me against the prosecution fully.

Also, I agree with his bail and freedom, he turned himself in and, while I feel he made a terribad mistake, is not a criminal or thug.

What a zoo. They are going to have to pull the jurors from like cambodia or something to find someone who is not biased.

Yes, agreed that murder 2 doesn't seem justified from what is publically known. Is manslaughter "the next lowest charge" from murder 2, or are there degrees between those two?

If the physical fight happened as is publically known at the moment (M jumping on Z with Z's back turned) then any conviction at all for the actual shooting would depend on whether the jury decides that Z was sufficiently in realistic fear for his life? Hindsight is 20/20.

There are many obscure laws and I dunno nothin. It is difficult to imagine what they might charge Z with, for actions BEFORE the fight began, even though Z could have acted differently and not got attacked. As you say, faulty judgement may not be illegal per se. Maybe something like reckless endangerment, but that doesn't sound like the correct charge. There are so many laws they could probably think up something. Maybe jaywalking. Am not claiming that Z should be charged. Only wondering what it would be, for "pre-fight" failures in judgement.

Maybe M was a bad apple, but I'm waiting on more evidence. Certainly M's decision to jump Z wasn't very good, but I went to high school with normal-enough redneck fellers who were not criminals and turned out fine later in life, who it is easy enough to imagine them doing exactly the same thing as M if some guy behaved in a way to pee em off. I probably wouldn't have done it, but it just doesn't sound like extremely unusual behavior for a peed-off teenage jock. A teen would not HAVE to be a thug to act this way, at least a few decades ago. Maybe the rules are different in our more genteel times today.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Glock30]

I think $150k speaks volumes as to the charges against GZ. I think murder 2 has been a ploy all along to get a plea bargain at man 1 or man 2... Just what does this prosecutor think she can convict with?

As I have learned so far in life, sometimes those who talk the biggest and the loudest are the ones who can't back anything up...

[Jonnin]

there are degrees and terms for various killlings. I say this is voluntary manslaughter, for whatever my totally unrelated to criminal justice degree is worth.

Stealing a lil from da wiki, these seem to cover the main ones?

• First degree murder is any murder that is willful and premeditated. Felony murder is typically first degree.^[5]
  
• Second degree murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance.^[6]
  
• Voluntary manslaughter sometimes called a "Heat of Passion" murder, is any intentional killing that involved no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed." Both this and second degree murder are committed on the spot, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter.^[7]
  
• Involuntary manslaughter stems from unintentional, but criminally negligent behavior. A drunk driving-related death is typically involuntary manslaughter. Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional," because the killer did not intend for a death to result from his intentional actions.^[8]
  

[TripleDigitRide]

If Casey Anthony can walk free in Florida, I'm not sure Zimmerman has too much to worry about.

[macville]

I feel that he messed up BIG by following, confronting, and so forth. Extremely poor judgement.

Did any police report or Zimmerman himself say that he actually confronted Martin? I've seen conflicting stories from the media that Zimmerman actually confronted him first, or that Zimmerman was walking away and Martin came up and confronted him.

I will disagree with what seems like most of vocal america that following martin was wrong. I've followed people on my road quite a few times (dead end street) because I wasn't sure why they were down my street (used to have an occasional problem when I was younger.) Even confronting him with a simple question of, "what are you doing around here" or "where do you live" seems very reasonable in a gated community (heck, most any where.) The only thing I would have done different is use my phone or ipod to get an audio recording before I would talk to someone.

[mikegideon]

I'm convinced of two things after watching the bail hearing. Zimmerman has a VERY good lawyer, and the judge is good too. This won't be easy for the prosecution at all.

[Jonnin]

Did any police report or Zimmerman himself say that he actually confronted Martin? I've seen conflicting stories from the media that Zimmerman actually confronted him first, or that Zimmerman was walking away and Martin came up and confronted him.

I will disagree with what seems like most of vocal america that following martin was wrong. I've followed people on my road quite a few times (dead end street) because I wasn't sure why they were down my street (used to have an occasional problem when I was younger.) Even confronting him with a simple question of, "what are you doing around here" or "where do you live" seems very reasonable in a gated community (heck, most any where.) The only thing I would have done different is use my phone or ipod to get an audio recording before I would talk to someone.

clearly they confronted, else TM would be alive.

He got out of the car and approached to within fist distance of a potentially dangerous person. He could have been shot, stabbed, or whatever at this point. Gun was probably not out and ready. The suspect was not harming anyone physically, so there was no reason to do this. It was stupid cubed, no matter how you slice it. There was simply no reason for him to get out of his car or get anywhere near this potential danger --- no one to rescue, no useful outcome to be had. I call that a huge lapse of judgement.

I would not get within 25 yards of such a person, and unless a third party became victim to the person, you could not pay me enough to get out of my car. I just cannot understand what he was thinking to do that.

[macville]

clearly they confronted, else TM would be alive.

He got out of the car and approached to within fist distance of a potentially dangerous person. He could have been shot, stabbed, or whatever at this point. Gun was probably not out and ready. The suspect was not harming anyone physically, so there was no reason to do this. It was stupid cubed, no matter how you slice it. There was simply no reason for him to get out of his car or get anywhere near this potential danger --- no one to rescue, no useful outcome to be had. I call that a huge lapse of judgement.

I would not get within 25 yards of such a person, and unless a third party became victim to the person, you could not pay me enough to get out of my car. I just cannot understand what he was thinking to do that.

I never said there wasn't a confrontation. But there are conflicting stories on what actually happened and who went up to who first. One of the stories I've heard was that GZ followed him a little and then walked away with TM then coming after him to confront. The other stories was that GZ went up to them and they had words. Who knows what's accurate with how the media has screwed with the truth multiple times...or just ignored any facts.

[gnmwilliams]

While I don't agree with the charges either, I do have to wonder what I would have done if I was being followed by a dark truck at night, then all of a sudden a guy starts following me on foot. Like stated above, hindsight is 20/20, but I think this all could have been avoided or had a different outcome if the words, "Neighborhood watch, identify yourself!" had been spoken in the first place. Sad story all around.

Edited April 20, 2012 by gnmwilliams

[TripleDigitRide]

As far as I'm concerned, it should all come down to when the law (if any) was first broken, and by whom.

We can sit back and argue what we would have and/or wouldn't have done in such a situation, but the only thing that should matter is if Zimmerman actually broke any laws, and if so, when. He was charged with a crime, but I'm still unsure which law the prosecutor believes she can prove Zimmerman actually broke.

In the end, I don't think the prosecution has enough evidence to get a conviction. I believe the only witnesses who could possibly give an accurate account of what went down and how are Martin and Zimmerman; and Martin is unable to testify at the moment. I don't believe there is another witness out there that can honestly say, without reasonable doubt, how things went down that night.

I truly believe that the prosecutor decided to arrest Zimmerman because she felt like she had no choice. If they hadn't, the entire state of Florida would be in ruins, along with God knows how many other parts of the country. This way, at least they can say they tried, but the jury had the final say.

Edited April 20, 2012 by TripleDigitRide

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The only plea bargain will be "self defense". Remember, the burden of proof is on the state. I'll bet by the way

the affidavit was written, the state doesn't have a case.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Did any police report or Zimmerman himself say that he actually confronted Martin? I've seen conflicting stories from the media that Zimmerman actually confronted him first, or that Zimmerman was walking away and Martin came up and confronted him.

I will disagree with what seems like most of vocal america that following martin was wrong. I've followed people on my road quite a few times (dead end street) because I wasn't sure why they were down my street (used to have an occasional problem when I was younger.) Even confronting him with a simple question of, "what are you doing around here" or "where do you live" seems very reasonable in a gated community (heck, most any where.) The only thing I would have done different is use my phone or ipod to get an audio recording before I would talk to someone.

Thanks Macville

Jonnin excellently explained stupid cubed. To be more charitable maybe only stupid squared if not merely stupid to the power of the root of two. Maybe stupid is not the correct term. I personally would have been too chicken- to get out of the truck rather than having been too clever to get out of the truck. I bet that Zimmerman himself wishes that he had been too chicken to get out of his truck. Being "foolishly brave" is not necessarily criminal.

Ain't for me to judge the wisdom of following strangers in your neighborhood and circumstances. There are some locations in Chattanooga and Hamilton county, if a local civilian happened to be following or taking a close interest, then I would get unusually vigilant expecting that something bad might be about to happen. Maybe it would just be an honest watchful neighbor. Or maybe the neighbor is watchful believing that you are out there investigating the meth lab in his trailer or those stolen cars in his shed.

Just sayin, strangers can take things the wrong way. Sometimes bad things happen because of misunderstandings. A stranger who is lost on your street doesn't know you from adam's cat. Maybe one of his friends once got attacked in your neighborhood and he thinks it is a dangerous place to be. Maybe you happen to look a little creepy. Things can get out of hand.

I would never claim that following a stranger in the neighborhood DESERVES getting attacked. I would never claim that a skimpily clad gal drunk on her butt two AM at a biker bar DESERVES to be raped. But one's own entirely legal actions can sometimes contribute to one's own misfortunes!