Thinking about C&R

[CapnVideo]

Hey guys. I'm new to this whole thing, but been reading a lot here lately about the C&R FFL. I've always sort of been into history, so the idea of collecting these types of weapons has a lot of appeal to me. I already have a 1943 Mauser P-38 my grandfather captured in WWII, and recently purchased a Mosin Nagant 91/30 (that's the prerequisite, right? ). So my question is twofold:

1. If I got a C&R, would these weapons be exempt from being entered into the bound book, since I owned them prior to being licensed?

2. How do I determine who the CLEO is for my county? Is it the sheriff or the Chief of Police?

Thanks guys. Look forward to replies.

[Guest bkelm18]

I too have asked your first question, however I've never been able to find a direct answer. However you send your forms to your County Sheriff.

[CapnVideo]

Thanks, bkelm. The second one was the only one holding me up anyway. Still, it would be nice to know the answer to the other question. I guess it would be safer to enter them than to have them not documented if Uncle Sam decided to pay a visit.

[Guest bkelm18]

Thanks, bkelm. The second one was the only one holding me up anyway. Still, it would be nice to know the answer to the other question. I guess it would be safer to enter them than to have them not documented if Uncle Sam decided to pay a visit.

Like I said, I've heard both yes and no. It wouldn't hurt to enter them in anyway.

[CapnVideo]

Well, sent off my app in the mail this morning. I guess the waiting begins...

Edited April 13, 2012 by CapnVideo

[CapnVideo]

Well, I'm really PO'd with myself at the moment. Standing here talking with a friend at work, I suddenly realized I forgot to initial the boxes on the forms before I mailed them. That's what I get for trying to do something at midnight instead of waiting til the next day. So I guess they will just send it back, or what?

[Guest bkelm18]

Yeah they'll send it back.

[pcrc11]

My understanding is you only need to log in guns that you have ACQUIRED or DISPOSED of while you have the C&R. So no, you would not have log in the guns you already own, unless, you dispose of them. That being said I believe you are better off erring on the side of too much information, I went ahead and logged mine in but made notation that these were owned prior to C&R acquisition . I have sold a few of the guns I owned prior to having the license, and at that point I went ahead and logged them out. BTW, aquired does just not mean purchased. It pertains to any C&R eligible firearm acquired in any fashion, bought, given, lent to, or found on the side of the road. Same goes for the the word disposed.

[CapnVideo]

That being said I believe you are better off erring on the side of too much information, I went ahead and logged mine in but made notation that these were owned prior to C&R acquisition .

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was planning on. I figure it's the safest approach, in the unlikely event Our Beloved ATF decides to pay a visit.

[Guest bbtie72]

I too was curious about that. I just received my C&R last week. It only took about 3 weeks to get returned. Then 2 days later I received a package that contained about ten pounds of regulations, forms, and a DVD. I was suprised I guess our tax dollars do work sometimes. I'm very busy at the moment trying sending out signed copies and trying to decide what I'm buying first.

[Glenn]

Getting a C&R may be a bad thing. I've only had mine a few days and I just ordered my first pistol. A Romanian Tokarev and 400 rounds of 7.62 x 25. Now I am looking for a long gun. This could be dangerous to my finances, but it sure is fun

Glenn

[CapnVideo]

Getting a C&R may be a bad thing. I've only had mine a few days and I just ordered my first pistol. A Romanian Tokarev and 400 rounds of 7.62 x 25. Now I am looking for a long gun. This could be dangerous to my finances, but it sure is fun

Glenn

Is that the one that looks sort of like a 1911? If so, that would be something I would be interested in, too. Where did you get it?

[pcrc11]

Is that the one that looks sort of like a 1911? If so, that would be something I would be interested in, too. Where did you get it?

I guess maybe they are the same size, but the 1911 is a WHOLE lot nicer to look at. If you are wanting a C&R handgun look at the P64 or CZ82.

[CapnVideo]

Oh, the CZ 82 is DEFINITELY on my list. Saw the thread recently where the guy had refinished one and put some wood grips on it. That is one sexy firearm.

[Glenn]

I ordered it from Classic Arms. I went with the Tokarev because I wanted to try the 7.62 x 25 cartridge. It seems to be a more powerful round than the 9x18 Makarov.

Glenn

[Hi Point Hooligan]

Seems to be??? Just wait until you pull the trigger on that baby... Make sure you tell us all about it!! And congrats to Glenn for getting a C&R.. Just be careful a C&R can be hard on the bank account...

[GS455]

you would not have log in the guns you already own, unless, you dispose of them.

This

Oh and don't forget you become eligible for dealer pricing at some places.

[Guest rebeldrummer]

they say getting the C&R saves you money....but dont ask my wife that!

i have acquired so many rifles is my short time having mine that I am not sure??!!

[CapnVideo]

Well, I'm really PO'd with myself at the moment. Standing here talking with a friend at work, I suddenly realized I forgot to initial the boxes on the forms before I mailed them. That's what I get for trying to do something at midnight instead of waiting til the next day. So I guess they will just send it back, or what?

Well, got my app back from BATFE yesterday, made the necessary corrections (I also forgot to sign the section authorizing them to charge my card ), and sent it back in. Not sure how much good it is going to do me anytime soon though, the wife lost her job this week, so it's belt-tightening time at our house. Oh well, maybe we will be back in the swing by the time it gets here.

[Motasyco]

You only need to log the guns you acquire using the license. When you use the license to make a purchase, the seller will also log the transaction. Your records better match theirs. You must then log the disposal of any of the guns that were acquired with the license. They'll send you a book with the rules. Your first purchase will pay for the license by saving you the transfer and TICS.

As the great master Yoda would say, "No think - do"

[Guest bkelm18]

You only need to log the guns you acquire using the license.

I really wonder if this is actually documented anywhere. I've heard just as many people say that you must log C&R guns even if you bought them before you had the license.

[Motasyco]

I really wonder if this is actually documented anywhere. I've heard just as many people say that you must log C&R guns even if you bought them before you had the license.

I will admit, I am not a lawyer and it has been a while since I last stayed in Holiday Inn Express. I did read the rules when I received the book. I understood it to reference licensed transactions. I could be wrong as it is written in legalese, in which, I am not fluent.

The rules do state that a C&R purchase must be recorded in the bound book within 7 days of the receipt of the firearm. If I bought the firearm three years before I got the license, I would then be in violation the moment I received the license if I were required to log firearms purchased legally prior to receiving the license. Logically, that makes no sense but we are dealing with the government. I believe that would meet the definition of a "catch 22".

Additionally, from the ATF online FAQ section, a licensed collector has the same status under the Gun Control Act as a non-licensee except for transactions in curio or relic firearms. It also states that the collectors license permits a collector to acquire C&R firearms in interstate commerce. And that, of course is why we get the license. So we can buy a C&R firearm shipped directly to us, which would be shipped through a FFL, therefore must be logged. I would argue that this would mean that if I buy a SKS from Billy Bob, legally, face to face, within my state, through a classified ad, I have the same status as a non-licensee and a non-licensee has no requirement to maintain a record.

In my case, every C&R eligible firearm I have purchased since receiving the license has been from an FFL, shipped to me directly as a C&R licensed transaction. Therefore all have been properly recorded.

We do have a couple of attorneys on TGO. Perhaps one may weigh in.

[Glenn]

Along with my C&R license there was a large packet of stuff which included an "Open letter to all recently Federally Licensed collectors of C&R firearms." In that letter it states "Enter into the A/D all Curios and Relics Acquired after receipt of the collectors license"

That settles it for me.

Glenn

[CapnVideo]

Along with my C&R license there was a large packet of stuff which included an "Open letter to all recently Federally Licensed collectors of C&R firearms." In that letter it states "Enter into the A/D all Curios and Relics Acquired after receipt of the collectors license"

That settles it for me.

Glenn

That does seem pretty cut-and-dried, doesn't it? Seems to answer both the "items owned prior to license" and "items bought not through interstate commerce" questions. After is after, and all means all.

Edited April 29, 2012 by CapnVideo

[Guest foister82]

I could be wrong but I thought the tbi check nullified the requirement of the bound book log for c&r qualified purchases prior to being licensed

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