Mental Illness and Treatment

[Dennis1209]

Our prisons are filled with mental defectives like no other time in history. According to MSNBC, 35% of the American prison population has some form of mental illness. But first, let me ask you this. There are many, many mass murderers and serial killers not diagnosed with mental illness. Is it just evil or an undiagnosed form of mental illness? My point of view is, our prisons are crammed packed with vicious evil people. What constitutes mental illness from plain evil?

To the point: Our government does not produce anything, period! To generate income, the government must tax it, borrow it, or print it. Either way, you the tax payer are going to pay for it one way or another, and that's a fact. So, the question is;

How do you feel about providing life long expensive medical / prescription drug care to tens of thousands of so called, "mental defectives", in an effort to rehabilitate them, of their child molestations, rapes, murders, home invasions, drug addictions, etc. etc.?

Why do we as a society diminish our ability to provide for our law abiding and moral families, to waste our personal income trying to rehabilitate scum bags?

Enough is enough!

[Guest bkelm18]

In my opinion, there is no such thing as "evil". It all stems from issues in the brain. A person can commit "evil" acts, but not because he/she is an evil person, but rather from some malfunction in the brain. Unfortunately, I don't think science is to the point where it can say for sure what exactly is different about a murderer's or rapist's brain compared to a "normal" brain. Whether or not they should recieve treatment, that's not for me to say. Someone who is much more familiar with these issues could probably say whether or not they could benefit from treatment and whether or not it is ethical for it to be done.

[Curiousgb]

Our prisons are warehouses for the mentally ill. We don't have treatment facilities or programs to treat most of these issues, so we street them (homeless), or we incarcerate. There are evil people. There are also people with no conscience, who do not live by the rules of society (sociopath). It is a very complicated issue. One day these "mental defectives" may get out and be living among the rest of us. And don't think just of the men's institutions. The women are just as heavily medicated and "defective" as the men.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Of the mentally ill, some is hardware and some is software. In theory you could fix bad programming though in practice it don't work too good so far. In theory you can work around bad hardware with careful programming, but in practice that don't work too good either.

The crazies who used to end up in mental hospitals, and who now end up in prison or living on main street in a cardboard box-- My predjudice is that those folks it is mostly hardware, to such an extent that software patches would be of little effectiveness. It remains very difficult to scientifically prove the hardware angle, being such as neurotransmitter metabolism malfunctions in the brain. Tiny changes in neural activity make big changes in the mind. For instance, the last I read about it long ago, the main scientifically detectable brain effect when somebody takes a bunch of LSD, is a barely-measurable increase in neuron firing rate. That barely-detectable increase in neuron firing rate makes extreme differences in how the brain operates.

Up until the mid-1970's a large percentage of people who were too sick to care for themselves were taken care of in reasonably humane conditions in state mental hospitals. Then court decisions made it more difficult to lock somebody up against their will if they hadn't broken any laws and were not a serious danger. Most crazies are more pitiful than dangerous. So even a crazy person likes freedom and if he can walk out the door then he will likely do so. And end up living in a cardboard box, and possibly be happier about it, though it is pitiful to see.

At that time it was cheaper per person to lock somebody up in a clean, sunny, humane mental hospital than to lock em up in a prison. If we still were set up to care for them folk, it would probably still be cheaper than prison. However, I think commitment laws would have to be changed, if it would be constitutional. And it is also pitiful to see somebody locked up against their will if they didn't break any law.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

In my opinion, there is no such thing as "evil". It all stems from issues in the brain. A person can commit "evil" acts, but not because he/she is an evil person, but rather from some malfunction in the brain. Unfortunately, I don't think science is to the point where it can say for sure what exactly is different about a murderer's or rapist's brain compared to a "normal" brain. Whether or not they should recieve treatment, that's not for me to say. Someone who is much more familiar with these issues could probably say whether or not they could benefit from treatment and whether or not it is ethical for it to be done.

Then what is good? I guess since I'm not an academic and have no medical experience, maybe I'm butting in,

but the concept of good and evil thrives. Was Manson just crazy? Maybe,but the prosecutor could only sum him

up as pure evil. I don't know, but I think evil is all around you and most of it may not be able to be proven by

science. There are chemical imbalances that cause brain dysfunction, otherwise known as mental illness, that

are treatable. There are also situations that are not treatable.

Maybe one needs to have a leap of faith to understand good and evil. I don't.

Issues in the brain cause crime, heinous crime, murder? I think crime is usually caused by something more along

the lines of the Seven Deadly Sins: gluttony, greed, sloth, envy, wrath, pride and lust. They are pretty much evil

in my book. I'm not trying to get into religion, so don't worry. They characterize most of the crime on the planet,too,

don't they? Is there a possible chemical link to some of them? Sure. Can they be controlled by science? Maybe,

don't know.

You said "evil act" so you must believe in evil to some extent. Maybe you don't understand it, either. I certainly don't,

but it's a concept I do accept.

[turkeydad]

I too accept the concept of evil. .why?... Because it is all around. . some blatant. . some subtle. . .But maybe I'm wrong maybe all Adolf Hitler really needed was a Zoloft and a hug. . I'm sorry for being trite but if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck. . guess what. . its a duck. And if it does evil things its an evil duck. . and if science comes up with an "evil test". . and it says the duck in question that has been doing evil things is indeed not evil. .I will still say that was an evil duck. So worry, cause unlike 6.8 above me I don't mind one bit bringing a mans relationship with his maker into it . .and its not complicated. . "judge a tree by its fruit". . Now take those seven deadly sins he mentioned they are all about me. .me. .me. .me. .me. .me. .me. .me. .(sorry was counting the me's making sure there were 7 lol). .Here I go again. ."If you love me. . feed my sheep" and "No greater love is this. .that a man lay down his life for his friends". .if the duck plays nice and thinks about others and maybe does some unselfish things its becoming a less evil duck and with a little devine help might become a useful duck. My goodness, the smarter we start thinking we are and the higher we think of ourselves. . the sillier the stuff that we come up with. . .Sorry I'm done. .

[Guest A10thunderbolt]

In my opinion, there is no such thing as "evil". It all stems from issues in the brain. A person can commit "evil" acts, but not because he/she is an evil person, but rather from some malfunction in the brain. Unfortunately, I don't think science is to the point where it can say for sure what exactly is different about a murderer's or rapist's brain compared to a "normal" brain. Whether or not they should recieve treatment, that's not for me to say. Someone who is much more familiar with these issues could probably say whether or not they could benefit from treatment and whether or not it is ethical for it to be done.

I believe, people make choices, that lead to other choices, and choices often go hand in hand with over all thinking. If you feel sorry for your self and blame everyone else for why you suck, you are more likely to steal, cheat, or rob from them. As far as religion goes if you take it out of the scenario, you are left with dog eat dog, unless there is Guidance by wise elders in the community. To me the Bible was written by elder me who had a lot of good knowledge on how to live a productive life, I'm not really a believer but its hard for me to argue with my upbringing. living by the Biblical principals will get you a long way in life, Being Honest is Probably the best one (Especially with yourself).

I do believe there are some who are truly Mentally ill, and that's where family or community should step in. The Gov is not the answer because they have no personal ties to the money or help they are distributing which is why so many people take advantage.

Edited April 12, 2012 by A10thunderbolt

[GKar]

I too accept the concept of evil. .why?... Because it is all around. . some blatant. . some subtle. . .But maybe I'm wrong maybe all Adolf Hitler really needed was a Zoloft and a hug. . I'm sorry for being trite but if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck. . guess what. . its a duck. And if it does evil things its an evil duck. . and if science comes up with an "evil test". . and it says the duck in question that has been doing evil things is indeed not evil. .I will still say that was an evil duck. So worry, cause unlike 6.8 above me I don't mind one bit bringing a mans relationship with his maker into it . .and its not complicated. . "judge a tree by its fruit". . Now take those seven deadly sins he mentioned they are all about me. .me. .me. .me. .me. .me. .me. .me. .(sorry was counting the me's making sure there were 7 lol). .Here I go again. ."If you love me. . feed my sheep" and "No greater love is this. .that a man lay down his life for his friends". .if the duck plays nice and thinks about others and maybe does some unselfish things its becoming a less evil duck and with a little devine help might become a useful duck. My goodness, the smarter we start thinking we are and the higher we think of ourselves. . the sillier the stuff that we come up with. . .Sorry I'm done. .

+1.

[Guest bkelm18]

Then what is good? I guess since I'm not an academic and have no medical experience, maybe I'm butting in,

but the concept of good and evil thrives. Was Manson just crazy? Maybe,but the prosecutor could only sum him

up as pure evil. I don't know, but I think evil is all around you and most of it may not be able to be proven by

science. There are chemical imbalances that cause brain dysfunction, otherwise known as mental illness, that

are treatable. There are also situations that are not treatable.

Maybe one needs to have a leap of faith to understand good and evil. I don't.

Issues in the brain cause crime, heinous crime, murder? I think crime is usually caused by something more along

the lines of the Seven Deadly Sins: gluttony, greed, sloth, envy, wrath, pride and lust. They are pretty much evil

in my book. I'm not trying to get into religion, so don't worry. They characterize most of the crime on the planet,too,

don't they? Is there a possible chemical link to some of them? Sure. Can they be controlled by science? Maybe,

don't know.

You said "evil act" so you must believe in evil to some extent. Maybe you don't understand it, either. I certainly don't,

but it's a concept I do accept.

"Good" and "evil" are just labels we put on things we wish to quanitfy, a human invention if you will. We don't understand why they would do a heinous act, so we call them evil. I said "evil act", with the quotes, simply because that's what people like to think of them as. "Evil" is just a malfunctioning brain. Most people don't go around raping and killing, even if it weren't against the law (even though again those are just more labels we put on certain heinous acts), because I think it stems from very basic biological "rules" of things that you just don't do, because it provides no benefit to the species to just run around willy nilly and killing everyone you see. So there really is no such thing as "good" and "evil", just things that are socially/morally acceptable, and those that are not. I'm sure there are more fitting theological explanations that people prefer, but that's just how I see it.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

"Good" and "evil" are just labels we put on things we wish to quanitfy, a human invention if you will. We don't understand why they would do a heinous act, so we call them evil. I said "evil act", with the quotes, simply because that's what people like to think of them as. "Evil" is just a malfunctioning brain. Most people don't go around raping and killing, even if it weren't against the law (even though again those are just more labels we put on certain heinous acts), because I think it stems from very basic biological "rules" of things that you just don't do, because it provides no benefit to the species to just run around willy nilly and killing everyone you see. So there really is no such thing as "good" and "evil", just things that are socially/morally acceptable, and those that are not. I'm sure there are more fitting theological explanations that people prefer, but that's just how I see it.

Dunno enough to discuss the definition of good or evil. Maybe it is a stretch to blame all or even most bad acts on defective brains. Wouldn't one have to assume that human brains are naturally benevolent, and therefore any misbehavior would be a symptom of defect? Perhaps normal human brains really are naturally benevolent. Dunno. Am aware of no strong evidence that human brains are naturally benevolent.

Risking invocation of Godwin's Law-- Some reports may hint that Hitler's brain could have had some defects, but many of his stooges apparently had excellently functioning intelligent brains, efficiently following monstrous orders.

Maybe there could be defects in the impulse control parts of the brain. Think I read that some researchers have reported MRI evidence of that in criminal populations. Or maybe there could be defects making certain brains incapable of proper socialization, or incapable of feeling empathy.

But it seems entirely possible to take a perfectly healthy brain and teach it to do monstrous things, efficiently and even with enjoyment. It seems equally possible that a perfectly normal-brained individual could teach himself to behave that way.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Guest A10thunderbolt]

How is making personal decisions a defect? Everyone does most of what they do to better themselves, some think money will make them better even if they steal it, if they also don't value human life it can get ugly, some value power and what say's power more than holding someone else's life in your hands. Am I more defective than a man who is sensitive and cry's when he see's someone in a bad situation if I don't, every one is different some sensitive others not. Quit making excuses for the Majority of criminals, they had the same decisions to make just like you or me.

Edited April 12, 2012 by A10thunderbolt

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi A10thunderbolt

I don't assert any particular thing.

After WWII people were curious about how apparently normal people will do monstrous things. There was a famous set of social psych experiments, as described in the following link. It was repeated many times with many populations, and seemed to imply that any man on the street can be manipulated to do monstrous things, and that it isn't even especially difficult to get the typical man on the street to do monstrous things.

http://en.wikipedia....gram_experiment

In addition, it is interesting to consider the various interpretations of free will, if one considers bad acts always voluntary. I don't have an opinion about our true amount of free will, but it isn't exactly a cut-and-dried topic. Even many traditional christian religions believe that there are definite limits to free will. I don't know how much we have. Maybe only a little and maybe a lot. Its just interesting to think about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

Edited April 12, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Guest A10thunderbolt]

Well like I said before, there are those who are mentally disturbed or handicapped but I feel today's society is always looking say peoples bad choices are due to a mental handicap