What are our students actually studying?

[Jonnin]

I am also more like spock than most folks. I do have my faith, but *whatever* people want to say, any contemplation of the beginning of the universe takes faith. Same for evolution, atheism, any religion, and more. Sure, we see evolution all the time --- its not junk science nor bunk, its pretty clear for example that some animals have bred useful traits and the ones without died off, producing a changed species. That does not mean that it makes sense to trace from amoebas to monkeys --- there are gaps in the science, fossil records, etc that require... a certain amount of faith to believe. An atheist must reject all miracles --- someone on the brink of death who recovers and the doctors cannot explain it, the atheist must have "faith" that there is a rational answer even if none can be found. There is a bit of faith in all belief systems, in other words, pure logic does not suffice to answer many things.

But if there is a logical answer, I am all over it. In the child situation, for example, my logic says I should shoot the pursuing terrorists in hopes that someone else can intercept the child and toss the bomb away or something. If the bus terminal is crowded, there has to be at least a couple of heros in there who can help a brother out, else let em get blown to bits, its all the same to me

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I am also more like spock than most folks. I do have my faith, but *whatever* people want to say, any contemplation of the beginning of the universe takes faith. Same for evolution, atheism, any religion, and more. Sure, we see evolution all the time --- its not junk science nor bunk, its pretty clear for example that some animals have bred useful traits and the ones without died off, producing a changed species. That does not mean that it makes sense to trace from amoebas to monkeys --- there are gaps in the science, fossil records, etc that require... a certain amount of faith to believe. An atheist must reject all miracles --- someone on the brink of death who recovers and the doctors cannot explain it, the atheist must have "faith" that there is a rational answer even if none can be found. There is a bit of faith in all belief systems, in other words, pure logic does not suffice to answer many things.

But if there is a logical answer, I am all over it. In the child situation, for example, my logic says I should shoot the pursuing terrorists in hopes that someone else can intercept the child and toss the bomb away or something. If the bus terminal is crowded, there has to be at least a couple of heros in there who can help a brother out, else let em get blown to bits, its all the same to me

Hi Jonnin

Your solution shows more creativity than mine.

I agree that many atheists take way too much for granted. It annoys me to no end. Sometimes it is embarrassing to be associated with them.

Maybe I am more agnostic than atheist, but usually stick to the atheist tag because it is simpler. If it turns out that there is a supreme being then its fine with me. If the supreme being is upset that I don't believe in him then he ought to have said something about it in a way I was capable of understanding. Having presumably made me and presumably knowing everything, then he would know what evidence would be convincing. It would be his fault for me not believing, having chosen to withhold sufficient evidence for belief. If he wants to blame me for the misunderstanding then that is his ethical dilemma to solve, not mine. He has my address, phone number and email, so he's welcome to get in touch any time he might want to have a chat. I won't keep it a secret if he ever happens to get in touch.

However, merely being an atheist does not imply that a person would HAVE to hold faith that the world is a rational place or that the world always follows the same rules. Just because some aspects of the world appear to follow fixed rules so far as I know in my little part of the universe, is scant evidence that there are no exceptions. In addition, even if the universe always plays by the exact same rulebook, there is no evidence that I will ever be privy to the entire rulebook.

A "miracle" is an event I wouldn't have expected. But things happen all the time that I didn't expect. I don't have any expectation that events will make sense, and I don't have any expectation that I would necessarily understand the mechanism even if all events DO make sense.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Guest A10thunderbolt]

Hi Jonnin

Your solution shows more creativity than mine.

I agree that many atheists take way too much for granted. It annoys me to no end. Sometimes it is embarrassing to be associated with them.

Maybe I am more agnostic than atheist, but usually stick to the atheist tag because it is simpler. If it turns out that there is a supreme being then its fine with me. If the supreme being is upset that I don't believe in him then he ought to have said something about it in a way I was capable of understanding. Having presumably made me and presumably knowing everything, then he would know what evidence would be convincing. It would be his fault for me not believing, having chosen to withhold sufficient evidence for belief. If he wants to blame me for the misunderstanding then that is his ethical dilemma to solve, not mine. He has my address, phone number and email, so he's welcome to get in touch any time he might want to have a chat. I won't keep it a secret if he ever happens to get in touch.

However, merely being an atheist does not imply that a person would HAVE to hold faith that the world is a rational place or that the world always follows the same rules. Just because some aspects of the world appear to follow fixed rules so far as I know in my little part of the universe, is scant evidence that there are no exceptions. In addition, even if the universe always plays by the exact same rulebook, there is no evidence that I will ever be privy to the entire rulebook.

A "miracle" is an event I wouldn't have expected. But things happen all the time that I didn't expect. I don't have any expectation that events will make sense, and I don't have any expectation that I would necessarily understand the mechanism even if all events DO make sense.

I agree, I don't know if God is real but if he created me, then I am the way he made me.

[Moped]

I guess I look at like this. Ground your kids with the basics and they will be ok, regardless of what they are being taught in school. I know several kids that have just finished or are finishing up over at UTK and for the most part, they are either moderate or conservative thinkers. Only one or two are what I consider to be liberal.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I agree, I don't know if God is real but if he created me, then I am the way he made me.

Hi A10thunderbolt

Yeah, doesn't matter to me what people believe. Its their own business. Not my place to convert anybody. Some folk seem made in such a way that it is impossible not to believe, and others made the opposite way. Can't think of any reason one would be better than the other. Just different.

In military matters they have security clearances and "need to know". If there is a supreme being then perhaps non-believers don't have a high enough security clearance and they don't have a "need to know"?