Marine being discharged for defending the Constitution.

[K191145]

http://www.myfoxatla...404-to_19025320

Now i'm well aware you sacrifice certain rights when you volunteer for the military, especially 1st. Amendment rights but from some of the stories i've seen this Marine didn't outright bash his sorry excuse for a commander in chief Obama, he simply stated or implied that if the President gave an illegal and treasonous order to disarm and or kill Americans he would do his duty as an American soldier and disobey such and illegal and treasonous order. Now it is a DUTY for an American soldier to disobey a clear illegal order, such as if your company commander ordered you to go into a school and murder all the children, or some Marxist traitor orders you to go from door to door on Main Street America and seize firearms from lawful citizens by deadly force. Personally i'm glad to see that our fighting men and women actually respect the constitution and take seriously their oath to defend it, that DUTY overrides any illegal order from anyone including the current clown in chief.

Now I haven't seen or read his full comment, i'm just going from the stories i've seen. If he actually made a derogatory personal comment about the Marxist Traitor sorry-ass excuse for a Commander in Chief then by military rules he should be punished, discharged is over the top.

Edited April 5, 2012 by K191145

[Guest cardcutter]

As a Marine,as a former platoon Sgt. I will have to come down on the other side of this one. Marines are not allowed to be political.Marines are not allowed to take any part in politics. Marines are not allowed to disrespect the chain of command at any level at any time. It can not be allowed period.

His personal feelings about Obama are much less important than the breech of discipline. If he feels that strongly about it he should not reenlist when the time comes. He should study up on and make damn sure he is right about what constitutes an "iillegal order. He is walking a fine line when discussing what orders he will and will not obey.

Now all that being said , I happen to agree with this young man on a lot of things. The sooner we are rid of Obama the better. I just hope he doesn't do to much more damage to the nation before he gets voted out.

[k9wh91984]

If he does get discharged, I wonder if it will be dishonorable? If so, no guns for him last time I checked.

[TMF]

I would have to see the statement. Article 88 only applies to commissioned officers so I guess they're going to prosecute him under art 134. His comments would have to be pretty severe to warrant this. Simply stating that he would not follow unlawful orders shouldn't be the issue here. Not following unlawful orders is a given.

What's going to get him in trouble here is if he's making these statements as a Marine or as Joe Citizen. If his Facebook page has him in uniform or if the page is representative of him making these statements as an NCO in the Corps then he's stepped on his crank. It's the same as if I wanted to go to a political event. I could go as Joe Citizen and say all I want, but if I don a uniform I'm committing a crime. I think that's how they're gonna approach this. If he does get a dishonorable discharge he'll be able to appeal it and have it changed to general or honorable.

Edited April 5, 2012 by TMF 18B

[Guest cardcutter]

The smart thing to do would be to call him into the unit office and have a COG discharge waiting on him. All charges dropped and he is out of the Corps. Problem solved.

Edited April 5, 2012 by cardcutter

[RobertNashville]

As a Marine,as a former platoon Sgt. I will have to come down on the other side of this one. Marines are not allowed to be political.Marines are not allowed to take any part in politics. Marines are not allowed to disrespect the chain of command at any level at any time. It can not be allowed period.

His personal feelings about Obama are much less important than the breech of discipline. If he feels that strongly about it he should not reenlist when the time comes. He should study up on and make damn sure he is right about what constitutes an "iillegal order. He is walking a fine line when discussing what orders he will and will not obey.

Now all that being said , I happen to agree with this young man on a lot of things. The sooner we are rid of Obama the better. I just hope he doesn't do to much more damage to the nation before he gets voted out.

It's unfortunate but many times, a soldier won't know he followed an Illegal order until he's charged with some kind of crime - as with many things, it's usually a lot easier to know using hindsight.

This issue today with being "political" while "representing" the armed forces is more complicated today than it used to be....standing on a platform with a political candidate while you are in uniform is pretty much a slam dunk that you are violating the rules...talk with someone over a cup of coffee at a Starbucks about politics with no mention or outward sign that you are in the military and you are just "Mr. private citizen" having a conversation...say the same thing on your facebook page with it being obvious you are in the military and you may have a problem.

Many people believe and treat social networking (forums like TGO, facebook, etc) as private platforms from which to speak; much like the Starbucks mentioned above but but they simply are not private.

[Guest cardcutter]

It's unfortunate but many times, a soldier won't know he followed an Illegal order until he's charged with some kind of crime - as with many things, it's usually a lot easier to know using hindsight.

This issue today with being "political" while "representing" the armed forces is more complicated today than it used to be....standing on a platform with a political candidate while you are in uniform is pretty much a slam dunk that you are violating the rules...talk with someone over a cup of coffee at a Starbucks about politics with no mention or outward sign that you are in the military and you are just "Mr. private citizen" having a conversation...say the same thing on your facebook page with it being obvious you are in the military and you may have a problem.

Many people believe and treat social networking (forums like TGO, facebook, etc) as private platforms from which to speak; much like the Starbucks mentioned above but but they simply are not private.

Well said!

[TMF]

The smart thing to do would be to call him into the unit office and have a COG discharge waiting on him. All charges dropped and he is out of the Corps. Problem solved.

I don't get the impression that this guy wants to give up being a Marine. If he's guilty I think discharging him is a little severe, but then again I haven't seen the comments he made and who knows what his disciplinary record looks like.

[E4 No More]

Without seeing the comments that he made:

I would certainly hope that all military personnel would publicly take the position that they would not follow an unlawful order from anyone of superior rank. They are expected not to follow such orders and are held liable if they do. On the surface this sounds like politics injecting themselves into the military - which is supposed to be apolitical.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Can a Marine be ordered to detain a US citizen on US territory? I thought Marines were the first

on the ground on foreign soil. Maybe that's a bit simplistic, but I don't see the charge needing to

be so severe. I know someone will say Marines take orders. I agree. I'm wondering if his response

is to the Executive Order?

Agree with you, Jewell.

Edited April 5, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[JReedEsq]

Many people believe and treat social networking (forums like TGO, facebook, etc) as private platforms from which to speak; much like the Starbucks mentioned above but but they simply are not private.

+ Eleventy Billion! You would not believe how many times, I've seen Facebook accounts printed off and used in Court in one way or another.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I think this is purely political. A bunch of crap. I could not find the offending statement on FB

mainly because I don't do much on there and am lazy, but if he didn't come out and directly

disparage Obama and stated he wouldn't follow an unconstitutional order from him, I don't see

much to this. Maybe I'm wrong. don't know.

[K191145]

As a Marine,as a former platoon Sgt. I will have to come down on the other side of this one. Marines are not allowed to be political.Marines are not allowed to take any part in politics. Marines are not allowed to disrespect the chain of command at any level at any time. It can not be allowed period. His personal feelings about Obama are much less important than the breech of discipline. If he feels that strongly about it he should not reenlist when the time comes. He should study up on and make damn sure he is right about what constitutes an "iillegal order. He is walking a fine line when discussing what orders he will and will not obey. Now all that being said , I happen to agree with this young man on a lot of things. The sooner we are rid of Obama the better. I just hope he doesn't do to much more damage to the nation before he gets voted out.

Like I said, I don't know just what all he said but it is not political to state that you will obey your oath to the constitution, and refuse to obey any treasonous orders against the constitution and the American citizenery. As a former Army Infantry Spec-4 I clearly remember being told that it is your DUTY to refuse to obey an illegal order. Forcably depriving a lawful American citizen or their 2nd Amendment rights is just that kind of illegal order. As a matter of fact obeying an illegal/unconstitutional order would be a treasonous act against your oath, constitution, and the U.S.A.

Now if an active member of the military calls the President a Marxist, treasonous scumbag, no matter how true it is then he/she is guilty of an offence.

[Guest mcgyver210]

Obama doesn't respect our constitution & will contininue his quest to destroy it so IMO this Marine is just saying he will defend the constitution but he will not follow an unlawful order. Now if you look at this deeper, If he does follow an unlawful order it wont be a higher up that is punished it will be him that takes the blame even though he just followed orders.

The ones giving the orders need to pay for the consequences not the ones following them.

[E4 No More]

Hummm...

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

[tnhawk]

Hummm...

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

I sometimes didn't like orders given me, as an active duty soldier, but I knew i was responsible to follow them. Rather than serve under some of our leaders, I ended my active military career. at the end of that enlistment contract. I consider my honor and duty to our country, to be more important than the retirement benefits I was working toward.

Edited April 5, 2012 by tnhawk

[Guest cardcutter]

Mutinous conduct can not be allowed. Unless you are a constitutional lawyer and have had access to every one in the chain of command as the order was being formulated you cannot be sure if it is unlawfull or not. If a Marine is allowed to question one order he will question them all and discipline is shot. He has to have faith in his ncos and officers.

" I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

That being said ,Yes there are certain circumstances when you should know better.

This ain't one of them.

The article said that the Sgt had been counseled about this very thing before, I think last year.

He was given a lawful order not to engage in political activities which could be seen as an endorsement by the Armed Forces.

He chose not to obey that order.

I could not care any less for the current POTUS but a Marine has to follow his orders.

[Guest cardcutter]

I sometimes didn't like orders given me, as an active duty soldier, but I knew i was responsible to follow them. Rather than serve under some of our leaders, I ended my active military career. at the end of that enlistment contract. I consider my honor and duty to our country, to be more important than the retirement benefits I was working toward.

This is exactly what i am trying to say.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Hummm...

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

So, does this mean you can assume an American citizen on American soil can be classified as an enemy. or,

a criminal? I don't know what UCMJ has to say about that.

[Wheelgunner]

From what little information the article contains, this seems to be BS. You generally don't get discharged (or even punished at all) for making comments like that, and I'm willing to bet that there's more to the story. Often a leader knows a soldier is bad news before the soldier has done anything meriting severe punishment, and that leader will wait to act. Then an opportunity will present itself, and the leader will drop the hammer for something seemingly random like this.

All that being said, when I was on active duty I had better things to do than post controversial comments on Tea Party websites. I feel bad for the guy, but maybe he should have cleaned his weapon more, or done more PT, or spent more time training his soldiers...

[Guest cardcutter]

So, does this mean you can assume an American citizen on American soil can be classified as an enemy. or,

a criminal? I don't know what UCMJ has to say about that.

Yes it does.

[E4 No More]

I sometimes didn't like orders given me, as an active duty soldier, but I knew i was responsible to follow them. Rather than serve under some of our leaders, I ended my active military career. at the end of that enlistment contract. I consider my honor and duty to our country, to be more important than the retirement benefits I was working toward.

No, you are not required to follow unlawful orders. You cannot be held responsible for refusing to murder a civilian. You can, and will, be charged with murder if you do follow that order, and the superior giving said order would also be charged. If will say this: you'd better be right about it being an unlawful order if you refuse to follow it otherwise you are going to jail.

[E4 No More]

Mutinous conduct can not be allowed. Unless you are a constitutional lawyer and have had access to every one in the chain of command as the order was being formulated you cannot be sure if it is unlawfull or not. If a Marine is allowed to question one order he will question them all and discipline is shot. He has to have faith in his ncos and officers.

" I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

That being said ,Yes there are certain circumstances when you should know better.

This ain't one of them.

The article said that the Sgt had been counseled about this very thing before, I think last year.

He was given a lawful order not to engage in political activities which could be seen as an endorsement by the Armed Forces.

He chose not to obey that order.

I could not care any less for the current POTUS but a Marine has to follow his orders.

If this is indeed the case then he deserves what he gets.