DPMS AR at walmart

[Steelharp]

Doesn't the phrase "mil-spec" mean that certain quality requirements are met, and there's not a hoot's worth of difference to those parts, regardless of price tag?

[LI0NSFAN]

Steel- I always thought that was the case, All the discussions on the boards make me feel there is a difference. Or we just have a lot of hating for lower cost guns going on.

[gkamer]

thanks for all the inputs. I do want tto get an AR 15, and have looked at the MP sport. But lately not many are available. To be honest i would really rather have an AR15A1. I have always loved them ever since i joined the military back in 73. May look into a JT upper, and see if i can find a good lower with the A1 stock.

[Steelharp]

Steel- I always thought that was the case, All the discussions on the boards make me feel there is a difference. Or we just have a lot of hating for lower cost guns going on.

Could be from guys that spent a lot and are po'd?

[R1100R]

I have owned a few DPMS and had no issues. For the average shooter it will get the job done. Sounds like a great price for a starter.

Edited April 5, 2012 by R1100R

[scoutfsu]

Doesn't the phrase "mil-spec" mean that certain quality requirements are met, and there's not a hoot's worth of difference to those parts, regardless of price tag?

DPMS rifles are in no way milspec.

[broox]

I have owned a DPMS sportical for over three years. When i first got it, it did not extract the spent cartridge reliably, so I had to replace the extractor. Since then I have had excellent results. It is reliable. Am I in the Swat team? NO Do I occasionally shoot a three gun match? YES. Do I shoot thousands of rounds a month? NO Do I take it to the range once/twice a month? YES I believe it is an excellent entry level AR-15.

[Steelharp]

DPMS rifles are in no way milspec.

Well, this would seem to differ: http://www.dpmsinc.com/about/

[Guest FIST]

I have been debating lately on the justification of an average shooter only purchasing the absolute top of the line spec rifle. For the most part, all of the specs that tend to lump a rifle into the higher end are never going to be needed by someone that works for a living and pays for their own ammo. If your just looking for an AR for plinking and to get a feel for the platform then pick that one up, like stated before you won't regret it. The worst part of the AR platform is you catch it like a disease and turn into some sort of mad scientist. It's fun though.

[scoutfsu]

Well, this would seem to differ: http://www.dpmsinc.com/about/

I'm sure it does. However, they are not milspec regardless of their claims. The information is out there. Chambers out of spec (despite some being labeled 5.56), commercial receiver extensions, etc, etc.

As a person who has bought cheap and spent more money upgrading and replacing parts and then selling at a loss, I advocate buying quality. It hurts initially but in the long run, I've found that if I had bought quality the first time, I would've come out ahead. I'm not saying someone has to go out and buy a Noveske or KAC, but the couple hundred extra they'll spend on a Colt, LMT, BCM, etc would be money wisely spent.

[Dolomite_supafly]

DPMS rifles are in no way milspec.

+ a bazillion!!1!1!

The only thng DPMS does well is their lower parts kits. I have used them exclusively for about 3 years now and they have been 100% perfect every time. I have used other, higher priced LPK's and they work well also but are no better than what DPMS offers. I have also heard their barrels are good but beyond that they have had issues for decades now. They are not for hard users and when they are used hard they do tend to fail more compared to other brands.

As far as milspec goes it is the minimum standard set forth by the government to ensure a minimum, not maximum, level of quality. Milspec is kind of like making a "D" on a report card, meeting it means you did just enough to pass. Milspec is thrown around rather loosely these days. And if most consumers knew milspec was a "D" they wouldn't put so much weight on it and would actually do a little reasearch into what is a better option. Think of milspec as a way for the manufactures to produce the cheapest gun they can that still meets the standard. They are not going to add cost and make an "A" rated gun if they are already passing with their "D" rated gun.

And no matter how good the part or parts are if they are not exactly as what is specified in the the milspec spec sheet then they are not milspec. And just because something isn't milspec doesn't mean it is a bad part, just that is doesn't meet the specifications set forth in the milspec standard. There are items that are not milspec but are far better than anything milspec. Melonite treatment is far better than chrome lining but when the milspec standard was established chrome lined was the best there was. And because the gov't is a slow moving entity it will be a long time before chrome lining goes away. Another example is the boron nitrided parts but they too are NOT milspec. Also, Noveske SS barrels are better barrels than what is issued but they too are not milspec. And finally, a lot of the two stage or competition triggers for AR's are better than the issued single stage [at least until one of my kits are installed ] which are milspec.

I am just trying to say do your research on what is best because you can never assume milspec is the best because in most cases nothing can be farther from the truth.

Dolomite

[Steelharp]

As usual, Dolomite rocks. Excellent reply; thank you!

[Dolomite_supafly]

As usual, Dolomite rocks. Excellent reply; thank you!

Funny, dolomite is actually a rock.

Dolomite

Edited April 6, 2012 by Dolomite_supafly

[Steelharp]

You caught the double entendre.

[scoutfsu]

To piggyback off of Dolomite, milspec is the minimum standard. You can certainly improve on milspec and there are top notch companies that do it (MSTN, Noveske, KAC, etc). They are improving though. DPMS and their low end counterparts aren't doing that. They aren't even meeting the standard that Dolomite is talking about. The minimum standard is there for a reason. When companies can't do the little things in it (staking is a good example), then why even bother with them?

[R1100R]

While Dolomite is correct about MIL SPEC being the minimum standards, I don't think using the analogy of a report card "D" is correct. It is more of a Go or No GO rating It is a document that states the technical requirements that an Item must meet per a military/defense contract. Each item has its own document. If this analogy were true then we would be flying around with "D" rated parts in our aircraft. Again as stated before being mil spec does not make it the best. I have owned DPMS that were all staked properly and some were not. All functioned great. It seems the more produced by a company the more issues are reported on the internet. Even the specialty AR's have had issues in the past. Knight, BCM, DD and Novenske.

I'm sure there are a lot of VET's on here that have used Mil Spec gear on here that was crap to begin with. So I don't put much faith in the term Mil Spec as Dolomite suggested

A educated buyer will buy the best that he can afford. I for one would rather have a DPMS (Warranty) than a pieced together upper/lower by some unknown company. But as stated for a little bit more you can but a better AR.

As Dolomite and others have stated, there is better out there than MILSPEC. The secret in doing your home work and always the $$$$ you are willing to part with.

Because we all know it is a disease and you can't just own one.

Edited April 6, 2012 by R1100R

[Guest Plainsman]

There is some good info in this thread. Certainly information to take into consideration when your in the market for a higher quality AR.The information available can be a bit overwhelming. In the end, I think you'll find that most folks who know what they are talking about will recommend LMT, Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, Colt, Noveske, and Knights. To help answer the OP question.....you are considering a $582 AR rifle. I can assume by your consideration of this rifle what type of shooting you'll be doing with it. It will probably serve your needs just fine.

If your looking to do some research, here is something to get you started...

http://www.m4carbine...ead.php?t=56063

http://www.m4carbine...read.php?t=7009

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

Edited April 6, 2012 by Plainsman

[Oh Shoot]

What's the general take on the Windham model at Wally's?

Reading around on the web and looking at their site, seems they may be a good cut above what Bushmaster has become, but of course they haven't been out there long enough to have a really fair overall evaluation?

I do like the idea in general of a former owner rounding up original employees and even restoring original plant after a corporate takeover.

- OS

[frankmako]

not a bad price. not a bad rifle. i have use some of their parts in my builds and the parts hold up well.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I compared a Bushmaster to the Windham and most parts appear to be the same. Word is they are a budget version the Bushmaster is making or maybe former employees are making.

Dolomite

[Guest Plainsman]

not a bad price. not a bad rifle. i have use some of their parts in my builds and the parts hold up well.

Hold up well to what type of use?

[Oh Shoot]

I compared a Bushmaster to the Windham and most parts appear to be the same. Word is they are a budget version the Bushmaster is making or maybe former employees are making.

Dolomite

I'm seeing as many or more claims in forums that they are above BM's quality, so I dunno. Of course, their website basically asserts that too.

Interesting thread with a Windham employee involved:

http://forums.1911fo...ad.php?t=343485

They state lifetime transferable warranty, too. 'Course, the company has to still be around to honor it I reckon.

- OS

Edited April 7, 2012 by OhShoot

[Oh Shoot]

I compared a Bushmaster to the Windham and most parts appear to be the same. Word is they are a budget version the Bushmaster is making or maybe former employees are making.

Dolomite

Bushmaster was bought by Freedom Group some years ago, they shut down original plant in Windham, ME couple years ago, moved production to Ilion, NY in with Remington's complex there.

New company is called Windham because last owner/CEO of BM, Richard Dyke, has cranked up production in the original plant there, which he still actually owned; had been leasing it to BM after he left. He had a five year non-compete settlement when he left BM, and is just recently now able to do so.

- Os

Edited April 7, 2012 by OhShoot

[Magiccarpetrides]

For most people these rifles will be just fine for whatever gets thrown their way. I would be in that group...however....sometimes you don't just want the porsche 911...you want the porsche 911 GT2. They both accomplish the same thing...just one makes the trip even more enjoyable...or thats how I look at it.

[Il Duce]

Or go even more enjoyable with a GT3RS lol

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