Anyone ever wrongfully denied on for purchase?

[Guest foister82]

I mean its probably already said, but who knows what's happened since the hcp was issued... that's what tbi is for... (oh and $$$$$$$$$$$$$)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5

[Oh Shoot]

Whether or not you have an HCP, a background check is mandatory for any gun purchase( from an ffl).

The state is not going to just give up that Ca-Ching. $$

You realize bill was discussed this session to do this, right?

Provision was in there to raise HCP cost to cover lost state 4473 checks.

- OS

[RobertNashville]

Whether or not you have an HCP, a background check is mandatory for any gun purchase( from an ffl).

The state is not going to just give up that Ca-Ching. $$

Only because Tennessee has decided it's mandatory. Other states allow their permits to qualify for purchases from FFL without a new background check.

[RobertNashville]

I mean its probably already said, but who knows what's happened since the hcp was issued...

If someone with an HCP does something that disqualifies them from having it then the HCP will be rescinded.

Background checks are and have always been pointless....until such time as we have time travel and can see what someone will eventually use a firearm for, the only function they can serve is to make the ill-informed "feel better" about people buying firearms.

Our effort as a society should be on punishing people who chose to misuse firearms to commit crimes and then putting them in jail and keeping them in jail (then they won't be on the street to commit more crimes ad/or buy firearms). Putting impediments on those who have done nothing wrong is exactly what we should NOT be doing.

[Guest Skeeter]

If someone with an HCP does something that disqualifies them from having it then the HCP will be rescinded.

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Do you really want to receive a letter from TDS to surrender your HCP because a payment for a Traffic Ticket was not received or entered on time ?

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[Oh Shoot]

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Do you really want to receive a letter from TDS to surrender your HCP because a payment for a Traffic Ticket was not received or entered on time ?

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Traffic ticket is not grounds for HCP revocation -- what is your point?

- OS

[Guest Skeeter]

Traffic ticket is not grounds for HCP revocation -- what is your point?

- OS

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If The Judge Issues a Bench Warrant for the Traffic ticket ( You are a Fugitive. )

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[Oh Shoot]

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If The Judge Issues a Bench Warrant for the Traffic ticket ( You are a Fugitive. )

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Still not grounds.

The reasons HCP can be revoked or suspended are all listed in 39-17-1352.

- OS

[Guest Skeeter]

Still not grounds.

The reasons HCP can be revoked or suspended are all listed in 39-17-1352.

- OS

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1 A.Is Prohibited from purchasing a Handgun under Federal or State Law.

4473 Are You a Fugitive from Justice ?

This is a Reason for denial and is used daily.

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[Oh Shoot]

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1 A.Is Prohibited from purchasing a Handgun under Federal or State Law.

4473 Are You a Fugitive from Justice ?

This is a Reason for denial and is used daily.

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Well, okay not being legal to purchase a handgun is grounds for HCP revocation or suspension, so I'll rescind my previous statement and give you that one.

If indeed TNDOS is alerted at same time as bench warrant is issued, guess that could trigger it.

Then again, if you don't pay a traffic fine or show up to contest it, I'd opine you aren't responsible enough to be carrying a heater either, so ultimately I guess I still don't see your point as to why this is unjust or something.

- OS

Edited April 10, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest Skeeter]

If someone with an HCP does something that disqualifies them from having it then the HCP will be rescinded.

Background checks are and have always been pointless....until such time as we have time travel and can see what someone will eventually use a firearm for, the only function they can serve is to make the ill-informed "feel better" about people buying firearms.

Our effort as a society should be on punishing people who chose to misuse firearms to commit crimes and then putting them in jail and keeping them in jail (then they won't be on the street to commit more crimes ad/or buy firearms). Putting impediments on those who have done nothing wrong is exactly what we should NOT be doing.

Well, okay not being legal to purchase a handgun is grounds for HCP revocation or suspension, so I'll rescind my previous statement and give you that one.

If indeed TNDOS is alerted at same time as bench warrant is issued, guess that could trigger it.

Then again, if you don't pay a traffic fine or show up to contest it, I'd opine you aren't responsible enough to be carrying a heater either, so ultimately I guess I still don't see your point as to why this is unjust or something.

- OS

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I'm not. and I ( don't think TNDOS is notified )

*just saying be careful what you wish for You Just Might Get it.

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Edited April 10, 2012 by Skeeter

[Fallguy]

Only because Tennessee has decided it's mandatory. Other states allow their permits to qualify for purchases from FFL without a new background check.

My understanding is that other states do a backgroung check once a year, that is how their permit can exempt a holder from a check on firearms purchaes.

In TN they only do it when you renew (every 4 years)

I agree they would revoke your permit if you did something, but mainly I don't think the state wants to give up the $10 everytime a check is made for a purchase.

[Guest Skeeter]

My understanding is that other states do a backgroung check once a year, that is how their permit can exempt a holder from a check on firearms purchaes.

In TN they only do it when you renew (every 4 years)

I agree they would revoke your permit if you did something, but mainly I don't think the state wants to give up the $10 everytime a check is made for a purchase.

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Bingo !

* State Control and State Jobs would rank up there as well.

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[RobertNashville]

My understanding is that other states do a backgroung check once a year, that is how their permit can exempt a holder from a check on firearms purchaes.

In TN they only do it when you renew (every 4 years)

I agree they would revoke your permit if you did something, but mainly I don't think the state wants to give up the $10 everytime a check is made for a purchase.

I don't know what other states do but I suspect some check every year and some less often. I wasn't suggesting that there may not be changes necessary to Tennessee's system including making up for any perceived loss of revenue. What I was doing was responding to the notion that "we don't know what's happened since the permit was issued".

That's true, we don't know but even if we checked every year or every month or week or day we can never be 100% certain that someone meets the "qualifications" for purchasing a firearm (of course, whether there should be "qualifications" and what those qualifications should be is another discussion) but whatever they are, my real point here is that background checks are 100% pointless and that the only reason we have them at all is to placate the anti-gun crowd and the ill-informed. Unfortunately, I don't see the requirement going way; at least not anytime soon. That being the case, considering the cost we go thorough to get our HCP it would be nice to have this little perk as part of the deal. Even more so as we move toward constitutional carry which would make the HCP process moot for some people (or at least make it a lot more voluntary).

[Fallguy]

I don't disagree Robert...

[Oh Shoot]

The federal government decides if a state can substitute carry permit for 4473. Has to do with fed's standard of state's level of back ground checks, and also perceived communication between LEAs, court system, and permit issuing department. I believe about half the states are now allowed to, but only a few actually do. TN is allowed to.

The recent bill in TN legislature to allow it had provisions to raise HCP cost enough to be revenue neutral on projections of HCP holders' purchase of guns from FFLs. The formulae they used to determine that was available somewhere on line.

- OS

[Guest Skeeter]

The federal government decides if a state can substitute carry permit for 4473.

Has to do with fed's standard of state's level of back ground checks, and also perceived communication between LEAs, court system, and permit issuing department. I believe about half the states are now allowed to, but only a few actually do. TN is allowed to.

The recent bill in TN legislature to allow it had provisions to raise HCP cost enough to be revenue neutral on projections of HCP holders' purchase of guns from FFLs. The formulae they used to determine that was available somewhere on line.

- OS

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Incorrect.

The Background Check would not be required.

You will fill out the 4473 and the transfer will be logged out to you at that time.

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[Oh Shoot]

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Incorrect.

The Background Check would not be required.

You will fill out the 4473 and the transfer will be logged out to you at that time.

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Okay, semantics. The fed decides if state is allowed to substitute carry permit for the 4473 background check. Better?

Yes, you still fill out the 4473, correct. Just that background check is not run through NICS. However, the states that are allowed to implement this still have to check that the carry permit is still valid at the time of purchase, as I have read.

- OS

[Guest Skeeter]

Okay, semantics. The fed decides if state is allowed to substitute carry permit for the 4473 background check. Better?

Yes, you still fill out the 4473, correct. Just that background check is not run through NICS. However, the states that are allowed to implement this still have to check that the carry permit is still valid at the time of purchase, as I have read.

- OS

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Sorry OS But if Bill Gibbions came in He Would Still Have to Fill out the 4473.

* ATF Auditor is Only Interested in the fact if you have The Firearm or The Correctly Completed 4473.

** or it's my behind. :eek: :eek:

As I've never ran a Transfer (except to another dealer or Curio & Relic Lic.) not requiring a TICS supplied number ( the Number is recorded on the 4473 ) don't know how,if a background is or is not ran in the States that allow these types of transactions.

From what I've heard No Background Check is done at the time of Transfer.

If your TN State ID isn't current ( I don't waste a 4473. )

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Edited April 11, 2012 by Skeeter

[Oh Shoot]

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Sorry OS But if Bill Gibbions came in He Would Still Have to Fill out the 4473.

* ATF Auditor is Only Interested in the fact if you have The Firearm or The Correctly Completed 4473.

** or it's my behind. :eek: :eek:

As I've never ran a Transfer (except to another dealer or Curio & Relic Lic.) not requiring a TICS supplied number ( the Number is recorded on the 4473 ) don't know how,if a background is or is not ran in the States that allow these types of transactions.

From what I've heard No Background Check is done at the time of Transfer.

If your TN State ID isn't current ( I don't waste a 4473. )

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What are you arguing? In TN we have to fill out 4473 and NICS (through TICS) is run.

In states where carry permit suffices, they still fill out 4473, just no NICS is run, but they check to see if carry permit is valid. That was what the proposed statute change in TN was going to do.

The federal gov decides which states may do this, but the state still has to choose to do so.

Are we actually in disagreement of anything?

- OS

[Guest Skeeter]

What are you arguing? In TN we have to fill out 4473 and NICS (through TICS) is run.

In states where carry permit suffices, they still fill out 4473, just no NICS is run, but they check to see if carry permit is valid. That was what the proposed statute change in TN was going to do.

The federal gov decides which states may do this, but the state still has to choose to do so.

Are we actually in disagreement of anything?

- OS

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The FFL is Required to Check if the Picture ID is Current.

* don't think there is actual contact with the States that allow HCP when you complete the 4473 and buy the firearm.

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Edited April 11, 2012 by Skeeter

[RobertNashville]

Frankly, rather than arguing about the details, I'd be more interested in hearing from someone who has lived in and purchased a firearm in a state where the carry permit is used and then purchased one after moving to TN so that he could compare the process in each case.

My suspicion is that using the carry permit as an effective substitute for a new background each time make the process simpler and faster; maybe even less expensive and maybe even subject to fewer errors (or at least the errors happen and can be solved on the front end before the carry permit is issued rather than needing to re-solve the problem every time you buy a firearm from an FFL).

If there is really no benefit to the firearm buyer then maybe changing the process in TN isn't worth pursuing???

[Guest Skeeter]

Frankly, rather than arguing about the details, I'd be more interested in hearing from someone who has lived in and purchased a firearm in a state where the carry permit is used and then purchased one after moving to TN so that he could compare the process in each case.

My suspicion is that using the carry permit as an effective substitute for a new background each time make the process simpler and faster; maybe even less expensive and maybe even subject to fewer errors (or at least the errors happen and can be solved on the front end before the carry permit is issued rather than needing to re-solve the problem every time you buy a firearm from an FFL).

If there is really no benefit to the firearm buyer then maybe changing the process in TN isn't worth pursuing???

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Your Idea of an Argument is different than mine.

OS has done some reading.

I do this daily.

And you Opine ?

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[RobertNashville]

I do this daily.

Do what? Make an ass of yourself???

I do that pretty often myself although I don't usually brag about it.

Edited April 11, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Guest Skeeter]

Do what? Make an ass of yourself???

I do that pretty often myself although I don't usually brag about it.

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Do you know anything about this subject ?

* other than I deserve Special Consideration ( treatment ) for all the expense I went through?

** few hundred bucks an a few hours in a classroom .

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Edited April 11, 2012 by Skeeter