Zimmeran's brother gives his side of the story

[TMF]

I forgot to ask about that. Someone at work told me that a phone records check showed she was not on the phone with him at the time. But I can’t find that information in any of the stories. That’s a pretty easy fact to verify.Was she or wasn’t she?

The initial report in the news was that she was on the phone and records verify that. Is it true, I dunno, but just trying to play Devil's advocate for those that immediately accept some media accounts and reject one that differ with their assertions. I find it a lot easier to look at all of them as suspect.

[Will Carry]

I'm not saying he had a "duty" to retreat. I'm just saying, since he was faster, that he certainly had the opportunity to retreat. I have no idea who was in the wrong and who was in the right. I'm just saying that the faster person gets to choose whether to stand and fight, or run away. Since Martin was faster, then the assumtion that he choose to stand and fight holds merrit. I have run away from a few fights when my opponent was bigger and slower than me. Is calling some one a racial slur justification for assault?

I still contend that when they closed contact, that it was mutual, although I have no facts to back that up. The only thing I do know was that it was a tragic event that should never have happened.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Will Carry

[mikegideon]

I forgot to ask about that. Someone at work told me that a phone records check showed she was not on the phone with him at the time. But I can’t find that information in any of the stories. That’s a pretty easy fact to verify.Was she or wasn’t she?

Last I read, based on the records, she was on the phone with him right up until it got physical. There is no tape, so she gets to tell any story she wants. Odds are good that the story will have some bias. It shouldn't have as much weight as some of the other evidence. Edited March 31, 2012 by mikegideon

[TMF]

Last I read, based on the records, she was on the phone with him right up until it got physical. There is no tape, so she gets to tell any story she wants. Odds are good that the story will have some bias. It shouldn't have as much weight as some of the other evidence.

Just because she has reason to be bias doesn't mean her account isn't true. The same could be said about Zimmerman; if he did do something wrong wouldn't it benefit him to lie in his statement to police? If her account jives with other evidence they have it'll hold plenty of weight. I don't think this case is going to hinge on one person's testimony or another's, but will be on the totality of evidence or lack of evidence.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

She may not have an account to tell. There wasn't a duty to retreat, only, who started what and where?

Broad assumptions are being made just to say Zimmerman started a fight. I doubt that, based on what I heard

on the 911 tapes. You can think what you want, but that's where any facts are unknown.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The initial report in the news was that she was on the phone and records verify that. Is it true, I dunno, but just trying to play Devil's advocate for those that immediately accept some media accounts and reject one that differ with their assertions. I find it a lot easier to look at all of them as suspect.

Which media accounts and who are you alluding to?

There is an awful lot of grasping of straws here.

The only way I can base my assumptions are a couple 911 tapes and reports of eyewitnesses. Everything else

is one big stretch. Other than that I have no idea unless someone finds unicorns and fairies in the garden.

[TMF]

Which media accounts and who are you alluding to?

There is an awful lot of grasping of straws here.

The only way I can base my assumptions are a couple 911 tapes and reports of eyewitnesses. Everything else

is one big stretch. Other than that I have no idea unless someone finds unicorns and fairies in the garden.

CBS broke the story weeks ago claiming the time matches up. Is it true? If you read the post of mine that you quoted you'll see that I said I don't know. I don't believe anything on the news at face value no matter which side is presenting it.

Calm down a bit. You seem to want so badly that I am exactly opposite opposed to you or something. I simply believe that Zimmerman started it. That's all.

[DaveTN]

Calm down a bit. You seem to want so badly that I am exactly opposite opposed to you or something. I simply believe that Zimmerman started it. That's all.

I agree.

I think fear is driving a lot of the drama and personal attacks. Some want desperately to believe that if someone is kicking their azz they can just pull their gun and kill them. I contend that if you instigated the attack you can’t. I guess we will see how it pans out in Florida.

[Garufa]

Some want desperately to believe that if someone is kicking their azz they can just pull their gun and kill them. I contend that if you instigated the attack you can’t.

You continue to promote accepting a beat down. Do you not believe having the back of one's head slammed on the ground is a life-threatenting or altering situation?

How does one overcome survival instincts in light of the law?

[DaveTN]

You continue to promote accepting a beat down. Do you not believe having the back of one's head slammed on the ground is a life-threatenting or altering situation?

How does one overcome survival instincts in light of the law?

I content that you have a responsibility to not be in that situation. I content that Zimmerman was interfering with Treyvon Martins rights and therefore his self-defense claim is without merit.

Zimmerman did not seek medical attention; therefore the back of his head was not bashed in. This old BS of “you can die from being in a fight†is ridiculous. Sure it can happen, I could also win PowerBall but it’s very unlikely.

If you feel the need to kill someone that is attacking you in a situation you created; that’s fine. But I think it needs to be clear that unless you are an innocent victim (you come before the court with clean hands) a jury will be deciding your fate.

[Erik88]

Dave,

you continue to say that Zimmerman instigated the fight and I don't understand it. If someone approaches me and says "what are you doing here" I'm not going to immediately punch them in the face and then start slamming their head into the sidewalk. If I did, I would expect to be charged with assault.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

CBS broke the story weeks ago claiming the time matches up. Is it true? If you read the post of mine that you quoted you'll see that I said I don't know. I don't believe anything on the news at face value no matter which side is presenting it.

Calm down a bit. You seem to want so badly that I am exactly opposite opposed to you or something. I simply believe that Zimmerman started it. That's all.

No, I'm calm as a cucumber, hope you are, too.

TMF, I never said anything of the sort. I think you and Dave have made some assumptions that are just wrong.

I won't make an assumption on anything except what I can see and hear. Since I wasn't there, I couldn't see

anything. The only direct evidence leaves us with 911 calls that are known to have been tampered to misrepresent

the truth(Mark's post of NBC) and the unblemished 911 tapes. Anything else are one or two possible eyewitnesses

and the shooter's testimony, which is self defense. After that there is no know other valid evidence I know of to

draw a conclusion from, except mere speculation. Maybe there is, but I doubt it. Tell me where I'm wrong, please.

[DaveTN]

Dave,

you continue to say that Zimmerman instigated the fight and I don't understand it. If someone approaches me and says "what are you doing here" I'm not going to immediately punch them in the face and then start slamming their head into the sidewalk. If I did, I would expect to be charged with assault.

Erik,

Zimmerman was following Martin and when he thought Martin was trying to get away he got out of his truck and chased him.

Is there any part of that statement you do not agree with or think is false?

Edited April 1, 2012 by DaveTN

[Erik88]

Erik,

Zimmerman was following Martian and when he thought Martin was trying to get away he got out of his truck and chased him.

Is there any part of that statement you do not agree with or think is false?

Maybe the evidence will support this theory and you will be correct. But based on witness testimony and Zimmerman's account he started to follow Martin but lost sight of him. When he was walking back to his SUV Martin approached him from behind.

Martin was 17, healthy and athletic. Zimmerman is 28 pudgy and probably slow. Do you really think Zimmerman had chance of keeping up with the kid. If he really wanted to get away from Zimmerman I'm sure he could have.

Dave, if evidence shows that Zimmerman did in fact "chase" Martin and attack him first then I will be the first to admit that I was wrong and you were right. But until then, I'm going to give Zimmerman the benefit of doubt and say he's innocent until proven guilty.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Erik88

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I content that you have a responsibility to not be in that situation. I content that Zimmerman was interfering with Treyvon Martins rights and therefore his self-defense claim is without merit.

Zimmerman did not seek medical attention; therefore the back of his head was not bashed in. This old BS of “you can die from being in a fight†is ridiculous. Sure it can happen, I could also win PowerBall but it’s very unlikely.

If you feel the need to kill someone that is attacking you in a situation you created; that’s fine. But I think it needs to be clear that unless you are an innocent victim (you come before the court with clean hands) a jury will be deciding your fate.

Ever worked in a hospital, Dave? I've seen some frightful injuries from fist fights, some folks left on a

ventilator until they died because of a head slam that left them with a lot of pressure in the skull. You

are officially full of crap. I know others that are paramedics and nurses that will also be glad to verify

you are full of crap, also. Head and neck injuries from fights that went on happen all the time.

When was the last time you had your head slammed into concrete? It was reported that Zimmerman

was treated at the scene. Old news

You can "content" all you want, but I contend that the evidence so far that people, other than you, have

heard, indicates otherwise.

Edited April 1, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[DaveTN]

Maybe the evidence will support this theory and you will be correct. But based on witness testimony and Zimmerman's account he started to follow Martin but lost sight of him. When he was walking back to his SUV Martin approached him from behind.

Martin was 17, healthy and athletic. Zimmerman is 28 pudgy and probably slow. Do you really think Zimmerman had chance of keeping up with the kid. If he really wanted to get away from Zimmerman I'm sure he could have.

Dave, if evidence shows that Zimmerman did in fact "chase" Martin and attack him first then I will be the first to admit that I was wrong and you were right. But until then, I'm going to give Zimmerman the benefit of doubt and say he's innocent until proven guilty.

You have struggled so hard to defend that a person has no duty to retreat under any conditions and with no qualifiers. But now you want say that Treyvon had a duty to retreat because he was younger and in better shape? You defend “No duty to retreat†and then you utter the very phrase that caused those laws…. “If he really wanted to get away..â€.

So now we are defending “Stand Your Ground†with “He should have ran!†(There has to be a great T-Shirt slogan in there somewhere)

Absolutely he is innocent until proven guilty. My thoughts on whether he is guilty or not mean nothing. I just don’t believe you can justify going from fists to a gun in a situation you created.

Have you read the reports this weekend on how many states are rethinking their “Stand Your Ground†laws based on the ridiculous theory of self-defense in this case?

[mikegideon]

Just because she has reason to be bias doesn't mean her account isn't true. The same could be said about Zimmerman; if he did do something wrong wouldn't it benefit him to lie in his statement to police? If her account jives with other evidence they have it'll hold plenty of weight. I don't think this case is going to hinge on one person's testimony or another's, but will be on the totality of evidence or lack of evidence.

I think it already is true about Zimmerman. I don't think anybody will believe much of what he says unless the evidence backs it up. Like, if his head looked like it had been banged on the concrete, he may be telling the truth.

[Erik88]

Like, if his head looked like it had been banged on the concrete, he may be telling the truth.

But Mike, didn't you listen to Dave? He instigated the fight therefore he deserved to get his head bashed into the concrete. Besides, very few people die from having their head slammed into concrete. The fact that he was begging for help should also be ignored. Duh!

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Why would they let him go if they didn't believe him the day this happened? The wounds, if any were fresh

and the police would have notice the type and severity. If it didn't match what he was saying then, why will

it be different now? I just don't see any reason for change in the treatment of him due to racial overtones.

I'll bet you if there is ever to be a fair trial, or if there is any need of one, he will be exonerated by the evidence

and the witnesses.

[mikegideon]

But Mike, didn't you listen to Dave? He instigated the fight therefore he deserved to get his head bashed into the concrete. Besides, very few people die from having their head slammed into concrete. The fact that he was begging for help should also be ignored. Duh!

I listened to Dave, and don't agree. I don't frequently disagree with him, so I'm thinking somebody just hijacked his computer. Hope nobody banged his head on the concrete

[Worriedman]

So if you are accosted on the street by a short fat man with a gun, you have a duty to retreat?

They couldn’t have got into a fight because Zimmerman grabbed him, punched him, or was using racially charged slurs?

Did Zimmerman display his weapon prior to the fight? Did he tell the Officer on the 911 call that he was going to take his weapon out and hold the person till they arrived? I have not heard anybody, the girlfriend, or even Sharpton suggest that he did. If he did not display the weapon, how did Martin know he had a gun?

If Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun, he must have had a death wish to approach him or do anything BUT run.

[Oh Shoot]

Why would they let him go if they didn't believe him the day this happened? ...

Why did police chief resign?

Why did City Manager Bonaparte acknowledge 10 years of police vs black probs? Because there are, I guess.

Always plenty of questions in whole thang down there.

- OS

Edited April 1, 2012 by OhShoot

[DaveTN]

I listened to Dave, and don't agree. I don't frequently disagree with him, so I'm thinking somebody just hijacked his computer. Hope nobody banged his head on the concrete

Yeah, I’m obviously on the wrong side of this on this forum.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Why did police chief resign?

Why did City Manager Bonaparte acknowledge 10 years of police vs black probs? Because there are, I guess.

Always plenty of questions in whole thang down there.

- OS

I'd guess political pressure and because of Sharpton. Enough for me.

The police problem thang vs blacks, well, I guess it is what it is. I wonder what the problems

were? To many blacks getting arrested? I don't know about that. Is it related to this?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I listened to Dave, and don't agree. I don't frequently disagree with him, so I'm thinking somebody just hijacked his computer. Hope nobody banged his head on the concrete

That's probably all it is.