1851, 1860, 1861 revolver comparisons

[Mark@Sea]

Hi folks, sorry for the late post. I just got back to the hotel (Norfolk). Hopefully home again in July.

XD, I don't know the make. My wife has it in a shadowbox in the guest bedroom. That may make it off limits, I'm afraid. She gets kinda funny about the ones she likes. Sometimes she still lets me shoot them... If she doesn't care (let me check first) I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 150. I will also keep looking on the net for something else - I like the Colts, they just look classier.

The prices at that store down by greenville beat 'net prices, they carry the black, and it is a neat place. Any chance you can make it there on the weekend?

In fact, any chance you can make it to a shoot in Kingsport? About a 4 hour ride for you, I think. If you can, post ahead of time. I'm sure Mike can bring his out to introduce you to the black.

Meanwhile, I will check the pawnshops here in Norfolk on my free saturdays (every other week while in the yards).

The cannon is small. Not tiny, but small. Shoots a .690 ball ahead of 80 grains of Fg. For such a small tube, it is an overachiever...

In other news, I made and replaced the firing pin on Sue's circa 1910 S&W .32 lemon squeezer, and put a scope on the AR while I was home. Also mounted the tang sights on Sue's '92 and my Henry 22. Word of advice - go with the Marbles, it is better made.

5 comes early, I am calling it a night...

[Mike.357]

Colts, they just look classier.

I'd argue that point The Remington '58 is the high water mark of authentic black powder pistols. Not near as plentiful during the nastiness in the early 1860's but it was surely the most desired of the two designs.

Mine is a 5.5 inch barrel, but I will be on the lookout for the long barrel one later this summer.

XD, if you want to go to the shoot you only really need to make it to Knoxville. I am sure you can carpool up there with us.

[towerclimber37]

Thanks for the info Mike. Yea tower it's rough, no weekend at all. I'm overhauling another Detroit engine & would you believe they want it done in two days? I'm just not falling for that anymore, when i'm done i'm done. Though i'm close now!

heh...I say add a 900.00 surcharge for express service and you'll see JUST how badly they need it in 2 days

[xd shooter]

Guys I would like to make the shoot on that side , but I think it is on the same day as Mid. Tenn shoot. This is going to be the first one I've gone to. Thanks for the offer on the ride Mike. Yes Mark I would be interested in the Remmy, just let me know how the wife feels.

[Mark@Sea]

XD, I just spoke to Sue - she doesn't mind if I sell that one, as long as I replace it with another for the shadow box. I expect that the shadow box would be a great place for my WWII issue 1911, so I am pm'ing you an offer.

[towerclimber37]

good..that shadow box needed some work anyhow...but I'm STILL proud of it!

[Mark@Sea]

Hold the phone, XD. PM sent on what may be a good deal...

[xd shooter]

Thanks fo the link Mark I will check into it a little further when I get home tonite. I'm done with that d*** engine, so now I can look again.

[Mark@Sea]

Mike, I want you to know, I blame you entirely. I hadn't messed with BP for years before you went and posted about it....

Look what I went and done....

And if I'd had the cash, I'dve gotten the 1849 pocket... Geez, Sue is gonna kill me.

By the way, Red Bear Trading has some decent prices too....

http://www.redbearhunting.com/shopping.asp?SubCategoryID=240

Edited May 8, 2008 by Mark@Sea

[xd shooter]

Mark do you think the 1851 you showed me would be a good shooter? I looked at it again looks good to me, but I don't know what i'm looking for.

[Mark@Sea]

XD, the kits present a host of challenges - you can read that as "a real PITA". Be prepared to spend a lot of time polishing a really flat finish out of something that isn't all that flat. Then there are the joys of bluing - which for most of us means cold-bluing. This means a smelly mess that you're gonna put on, and polish, strip off and re-do until you get a uniform color that sort of approximates blue, in a bad light. From a distance. On the bright side, a great way to find the places you didn't polish is to get a perfect cold-blue everywhere else. I promise, it'll happen at least once.

But hey, once you've filed, sanded, and polished to perfection, then gotten a beautiful bluing job involving no less than 3 different brands of instant blue kits at an average cost of $15 each, plus shipping, you will be presented with the invaluable opportunity to learn how to assemble and time the colt action. This is a real and almost-unknown skill, and is sure to come in handy again, if you live long enough. Be prepared to purchase spare parts - Aw, just skip the suspense and go ahead and have them on hand.

If you are referring to the already built item, Traditions now imports their firearms from a company called Ardessa (spanish). I've never seen or fired one, you might be able to find some info at one of the BP specific websites. It is hard to go wrong at that price, though. Just from looking at it, the only thing specific that comes to mind is that the grips are obviously 2 piece, and appear to be very dark. It doesn't have the annoying protruding screws or cuts in the shield for a stock. Other than that, all I can tell you is that his price for the 1862 pocket police is the second-lowest I've found on the net (I found the lowest an hour after placing my order, of course), and his shipping is very reasonable.

[Mark@Sea]

RE my last post - I hope I didn't come across as too enthusiastic about the kit guns. They are enjoyable, in much the same way that a migraine can be - you feel so good when it's over.....

[xd shooter]

I don't see it on their site, but about how long do you allow for shipping from Possible? The phone has been answered. It's on the way. Complete one that is. Now i'm gonna need to know what supplies i'm gonna need for this thing.

Yea Mark I was in the same boat as you I saw the post Mike put up of his collection & thought that would be neet. Now look at me already went out & ordered one LOL. oo thanks for the PM.

[Mike.357]

Glad to see you guys are getting in the spirit of things.

Mark that fluted cylinder revolver is beautiful. I love blued metal like that. Looks great.

I dunno about doing them kits, I do not have enough patience for them.

XD you will be hooked now, lol. feel free to ask questions. I am sure you will have them. One thing to consider for sure is a good set of screw drivers. I am not talking about the kind for working on cars or what not. But screwdrivers specific for gun work. Hollow ground I believe they are called. Your black powder revolver will need to be taken down each time it is shot. You will be suprised at the gunk that builds up inside the action of the gun. But hot water and dish soap works great for cleaning, Crisco or olive oil is where its at for oiling. Avoid Dino oils at all costs.

I am going to check out that link Mark, God help me with what I am guessing I will find, LOL

[xd shooter]

Dang yall, now I have to wait on this pistol & my HCP at the same time No problem on cleaning I like to clean my guns. Though I'm sure these will be quite different. Now gonna need to know about flasks, bullet molds, powders,& wadding. Please now all of it at once, I don't need steam comming out of my ears.

[Mark@Sea]

He told me he ships priority mail - so from there, figure 4 or 5 days tops. Probably 3.

Supplies - .454 balls, but .457 are better if you can find them. When you press the ball into the cylinder it should shave a ring of lead from the ball. Either size ends up the same, of course, but the larger ball will give you more bearing surface on the rifling, which will improve accuracy somewhat. If it doesn't shave that tiny ring of lead, get a bigger size asap, and for heavens sake, use a wad and cover the ball with crisco, to boot. Chain fires are not fun.

A powder flask, or at the least a powder measure. Consistency is the key to accuracy, and more powder does not necessarily correspond to more accuracy. Expect to play with charges until you find the most accurate, but it'll likely be in the neighborhood of 22 to 25 grains of fffg.

Wads. Oxyoke wonder wads, already lubricated. Do yourself a HUGE favor and buy some for .44

Powder. You may not be able to find the black, may have to use triple seven or pyrodex, but goex is your first choice. 3Fg. A pound is gonna go a long, long, long long, long way.

Caps... What works for one guy, or gun, may not be the ideal choice for another. I'm using CCI #11's at the moment, your mileage may vary. Get a tin of #10's and one of #11's, see which works the best for you. By that I mean consistent ignition, and the fired cap stays on the nipple, most of the time.

Black powder solvent. Either that or prepare to spend a lot of time with hot, soapy water.

Iossol bore cleaner. First thing you wanna do is either use a jag, or a .42 dowel, and take a good quality cleaning patch. Work the Iossol into it. Now run it through your new barrel a few times. Do this about a dozen times. You should feel resistance decrease significantly about halfway through. What you are doing is putting a final polish on the barrel, and it'll pay dividends in accuracy, reduced fouling, and ease of cleaning.

Bore butter. Coat the barrel and cylinder, inside and out, with a thick layer. Now put them in an oven, heat to say 125 for an hour or two. Wipe and clean with (non-petroleum based) black powder solvent.

Optional items - a capper, maybe. A nipple wrench. A bag of some sort, for the balls.

All I can think of right off hand, anyone else?

[xd shooter]

Now what is the bore butter, & why do you bake it? Also where was it to find molds for the bullets I have a melting pot & would love to get some more use of it other than fishing sinkers & spinner baits.

Edited May 8, 2008 by xd shooter

[Mark@Sea]

Bore butter is a non-petroleum based lubricant. You can find a recipe on the net, actually, and make it yourself. It seasons the metal - sort of like an iron frying pan.

[Mark@Sea]

Molds - try Track of the Wolf, for starters. Lee molds, I am told, are good but fragile. They have the advantage of not leaving a sprue in the casting. Best source for casting info is a board called Cast Boolits.

[xd shooter]

I guess I need to wait on the gun then mic the barrel to see which mold I need. I'm guessing I need to measure the small part of the bore. I will get it all little by little. Thanks for the info, It's off to bed for me. I'll check back in the morning to see if you have thought of anything else.

[Guest gunslinger707]

I gotta quit reading this thread !!! I'm starting to git thuh B/P itch

[Mike.357]

The force is calling you Gunslinger, it is best to answer the call.

The best part of it is you can order a top of the line revolver and with some shopping around keep it under $200. Try that with a cartridge revolver.

For under $300 you can get a steel frame Remington and a spare cylinder from a place like EMF. You can find cheaper deals at places like Cabellas. But some of the places like EMF, Taylors and Cimmaron hold the manufacturers to high standards.

My Remmy came from EMF and it is the nicest revolver I own, and my '51 was dirt cheap from Cabellas and is a heck of a shooter.

There is nothing to not love about percussion revolvers.

That picture Mark posted is driving me wild, man I wants one of them bad. If I did not have four other C&B's already I know the order would have been placed.

I am trying my hardest to hold out for a .22 pump in stainless. LOL

[Mike.357]

Here is a pic of my 1851 Gunnison and Griswald knock off, bastard caliber being its in .44 but still awesome to shoot. Was next to free from Cabelas. Works great with 20 grains of fff and #11 Remington caps. I can use a little Instant Grits as a filler between ball and powder, or not. The filler gets the ball closer to the forcing cone and makes the gun more accurate, but it is not a requirement. A little Crisco over the ball and it is good to go.

This one is a Pietta. the grip is slighty larger than the grip on my 51 Navy made by Armi San Marco. It is even notched on the grip frame for adding on a shoulder stock,

[Mark@Sea]

Mike, the one I just bought is the 1862 police; a .36 on an 1849 frame. Have you seen one of those yet? Just wish I could have found one with a 5 inch barrel (this'n is 6 1/2). Naturally, right after I ordered it from the possibles shop, I found the 5 1/2 bbl version at the last link I posted... 20 bucks cheaper. Oh well...

If all goes well, we'll play with it at the shoot. I should have time to break in the barrel beforehand.

[xd shooter]

Go for it gunslinger, why not sling some black.