Tromix Saiga 12?

[alwaysonjohn]

I was just wondering if anyone here has put up the money and wait time for one of these guns? I was thinking about getting on the list next year for a tromix s17 build. Thoughts? Suggestions? I haven't even bought a Saiga 12 yet, I figured it would be easier and cheaper to just get one from them at the same time.

John

[Dolomite_supafly]

They are considered one of the best S12 builders in the country. Their guns keep their value and are right from the get go.

With that being said I would never buy something I can do myself. All the parts to do it yourself are readily available. There is plenty of how to's on the net to walk you through any conversion you might want to do.

The S12 is a pretty easy gun to work on. I have one that I have done a lot of work to and all of it required no special tooling or machinery. I did the pistol grip conversion myself. I have polished the bottom of the bolt and carrier. This helped with cycling as well as inserting a full mag with the bolt forward. I also swapped the forward recoil spring with a 1911 recoil spring to help with cycling. I swapped out the hammer/trigger spring for a lighter trigger pull. I am getting ready to chop the barrel and silver solder a flash hider back on to bring it to 18.25".

Dolomite

[TN-popo]

I've had a Tromix and it was nice. There was a time when Tony R was one of the only games in town, but not now.

I don't think I'd pay, and wait, for a Tromix today.

Currently, I've got a Saiga12 built by a local MidTN 'smith, that I bought from a TGO member. I like it better than the Tromix I had.

Dolomite, I'd love to hear more about using 1911 springs in the Saiga12 (1911 spring weights vs the stock Saiga weights).

Currently, I've found that I get much better reliability using Carolina Shooters Supply's Saiga12 reduced power front recoil springs. Typically, I don't shoot heavy loads through my Saiga...if I do, I put the stock spring back in.

Using 1911 springs would be cheaper and give one a lot more options.

Edited April 1, 2012 by TN-popo

[Dolomite_supafly]

I've had a Tromix and it was nice. There was a time when Tony R was one of the only games in town, but not now.

I don't think I'd pay, and wait, for a Tromix today.

Currently, I've got a Saiga12 built by a local MidTN 'smith, that I bought from a TGO member. I like it better than the Tromix I had.

Dolomite, I'd love to hear more about using 1911 springs in the Saiga12 (1911 spring weights vs the stock Saiga weights).

Currently, I've found that I get much better reliability using Carolina Shooting Supply's Saiga12 reduced power front recoil springs. Typically, I don't shoot heavy loads through my Saiga...if I do, I put the stock spring back in.

Using 1911 springs would be cheaper and give one a lot more options.

I was told by a reliable source that the reduced power front springs are in reality 16 pound 1911 springs. And you can buy new ones for under $5 a piece. As a matter of fact I need to order a few more to keep around.

I know that when I replaced my front spring with a 16 pound spring it now cycles everything on setting 1. And it does it without any impacts at the rear whether it be high brass or low brass. The only difference between the two is how far the hulls fly. Low brass flys probably 2 feet from me and high brass probably 5 feet.

I have done a few other mods but the spring is what made it reliable with everything.

Here are some of the things I did.

I made my own lightweight dished plug out of 17-4 stainless. It is a much tighter fit with corners that are more square and defined. The plug is about 2/3 the weight of the factory plug and once I hardened it it seems to be working really well. The factory plug worked just as well but I wanted to add an extra US part.

I did the glass bolt smooth and polish job, you have the tools to do it because you did the conversion yourself. That helped with cycling more than anything else. It also allows you to insert loaded mags with the bolt forward. I also added the JTE hammer/trigger spring. And after a nice polish job on the trigger and hammer mating surfaces the trigger is amazing for an AK. It still does have a lot of take up but that is the AK. I think the combination of the polished bolt, polished hammer face, new recoil spring, new hammer spring and new plug made this thing amazingly reliable. It has 700+ rounds through it so far and the only problems can be attributed to me trying to make some "cheap" slugs for it. Now I am just going to replace the shot in cheap rounds with 1.25 ounce round balls. They cycle better being .25 ounce heavier and are accurate enough to hit man sized sillouettes at 50 yards.

The gun cycles just as well with the factory plug but I wanted a US part to count towards the 922 count.

I was going to chop and permanently attach a flash hider this week but I have too many irons in the fire at the moment. I have a lot of important stuff going on regarding my helicopter crash so I need to stay focused.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

That just got me thinking, which can be a dangerous thing. I wonder is a variable power 1911 spring would work better. Maybe instead of a 16 pound standard spring use a 18 pound variable rate spring. It might tame the high brass stuff yet be reliable with the low brass stuff.

Dolomite

[TN-popo]

Thanks Dude!

I've not used any 1911 springs, but now I have a baseline to start screwing around.

Like I said, the CSS reduced spring has been great and now I basically have 4 settings

Stock / 1

Stock / 2

Reduced / 1

Reduced / 2

I wish I knew what these two spring weights are...

95% of what I shoot through the gun is Federal or Remington low brass or Federal Tac OOBuck or Slug.

I've had issues with Winchester's low brass in several 12ga semi-autos so I stay away from it.

Thanks again, mate.

Edited April 1, 2012 by TN-popo

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have tried plenty of bulk ammo and really like Federal. I like it mostly because slugs drop right in the hull. I melt the shot down into .69" round balls then drop them right back in the hulls. Makes for cheap slug loads that work. They cost me .23 each to make and about 30 minutes of work.

Dolomite

[alwaysonjohn]

After reading your posts it looks like I will just try to do the first one myself. I'll just have to find my dremmel and shop around for good prices on new Saiga's. Is there anything I should know when buying a Saiga 12?

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you want I will PM my number that way you can call me and we can talk about it.

A dremel will definitely work but not ideal. I did mine with a drill press but if I had to do over again I would use my die grinder to just grind off the tops of the rivets. And with the die grinder it will be easier to polish the underside of the bolt to help cycling and inserting mags with the bolt forward. But in the end the conversion was very easy. I did mine in about an hour and I had to fit the shepards hook because I bought a AK rather than a shotgun hook. And when I polished my bolt that took about 15-20 minutes because I went really slow.

Also, when you are doing your parts count plan on keeping the factory hammer. Even though the Tapco works it does cause cycling issues for most people after the conversion. It is higher in the gun causing the bolt to drag and doesn't hit the firing pin squarely like the factory hammer. Most people who have issues can swap in the factory hammer and the issues go away. I added a US made puck (that I made) when I put my factory hammer back in. It also works better with the Tapco trigger than the Tapco hammer, go figure.

I used chalkboard paint to refinish the bare parts and it is holding up just fine. I do not use solvents to clean, just a wipe down with a rag.

If you plan on shortening the barrel ever get the 19" barreled gun. They make a 24" gun and it has issues if you go to 19". With the 19" gun most people can shorten the barrel and permanently attach a muzzle brake without any significant issues. And while you have the gas block off for shortening you may as well angle the gas ports to keep cup material out of the gas system. I still have to do that to mine.

Not sure how soon you want to get into on but the rumor is they are being imported without being neutered first in the next few months. They are supposed to be coming in with pistol grips, real sights, magwells and folding stocks. But I am not sure of the price on our shores though. It was rumored they were going to be under $500 but with the scare coming I seriously doubt they will be under twice that.

Here is a post on some current models:

http://forum.saiga-1...rom-legion-usa/

Notice they have REAL sights like what is found on real Saigas/VEPR's. These are as close to the real deal guns as you are going to find ready to go.

I am far from the Saiga expert. Most of my knowledge came from the site I linked above. There is a wealth of information there although the sight is a bit slow to respond to requests.

Dolomite

[Romad7]

I am working on my s12 right now just waiting on my tools to arrive. I'll be moving the gas block back and eventually will have

about an 11" barrel.

Here is my project thread so far. http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/46051-saiga-12-project/page__fromsearch__1

Did the conversion already and it went well. Definitely something that I think every s12 owner should do themselves. It's not very difficult with basic tools and I learned how the gun works and how the parts go together.

If you do the conversion here are some of my lessons learned:

Get the axis pin retaining plate, the conversion kit comes with a shepard's crook but I hate dealing with the wire retainers. The plate is so much easer.

Modify the BHO if you decide to use it, I can email a template if you need it. I just visually copied the one at CSS. Dolomite also had a good idea to grind the button round so it's less in the way.

That's all I have for now but ask away and we'll do our best to help.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Romad7

[Hershmeister]

I've had a Tromix and it was nice. There was a time when Tony R was one of the only games in town, but not now.

I don't think I'd pay, and wait, for a Tromix today.

Currently, I've got a Saiga12 built by a local MidTN 'smith, that I bought from a TGO member. I like it better than the Tromix I had.

Dolomite, I'd love to hear more about using 1911 springs in the Saiga12 (1911 spring weights vs the stock Saiga weights).

Currently, I've found that I get much better reliability using Carolina Shooters Supply's Saiga12 reduced power front recoil springs. Typically, I don't shoot heavy loads through my Saiga...if I do, I put the stock spring back in.

Using 1911 springs would be cheaper and give one a lot more options.

Glad your loving that s12! I finally got my folder broken in and can dump a 20 round drum in 10 seconds. Sweet!

Mine eats up the Rio game loads - best cheap 12ga I've found.

PS: if anyone needs contact info for my 'smith, just shoot me a PM and I'll hook you up. He does great work.

[TN-popo]

Glad your loving that s12!

PS: if anyone needs contact info for my 'smith, just shoot me a PM and I'll hook you up. He does great work.

Very much so!

And I'll second your praise for Mr H. That trigger set-up he did is the bees knees.

[Romad7]

Glad your loving that s12! I finally got my folder broken in and can dump a 20 round drum in 10 seconds. Sweet!

Mine eats up the Rio game loads - best cheap 12ga I've found.

PS: if anyone needs contact info for my 'smith, just shoot me a PM and I'll hook you up. He does great work.

What area is that? I am in the Johnson City area and it's impossible to find someone to do lathe work on my S12. I'll probably have to go to Knoxville but not having luck with that yet. I just need the barrel turned down and The Monster Brake reamed out to slip on.

I know I can mail it in somewhere but I would prefer to discuss this in person and watch how its done so I can learn something.

Dolomite, do you have any suggestions?

[Hershmeister]

What area is that? I am in the Johnson City area and it's impossible to find someone to do lathe work on my S12. I'll probably have to go to Knoxville but not having luck with that yet. I just need the barrel turned down and The Monster Brake reamed out to slip on.

I know I can mail it in somewhere but I would prefer to discuss this in person and watch how its done so I can learn something.

Dolomite, do you have any suggestions?

My guy is in the nashville area. Not an ffl though, so you couldn't ship him the gun.

[TN-popo]

My guy is in the nashville area. Not an ffl though, so you couldn't ship him the gun.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but, since it's within the State, I don't see why not.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but, since it's within the State, I don't see why not.

He is talking about shipping it to have work done. A person needs an FFL to accept a gun for repair.

It is legal for a person to make "on the spot corrections" with the owner present without an FFL but a person MUST have an FFL to accept a firearm for repair or as part of a money making endeavor.

I know a lot of people do skirt the law by "loaning" their firearm to another person but it can get you in trouble.

Dolomite

[TN-popo]

Lol, gotcha.

After working all night, I got hung up on the "shipping part" and didn't think about the "FFL part."

[Romad7]

I ended up finding a guy with a machine shop who let/helped me do the work. While this is ok, you cannot leave your gun with a non FFL gunsmith without you being there. There may be guys who will say that you can loan it to him but don't take the chance of getting him in trouble and hurting his business or worse.

Also, making it a habit of taking all your guns to him regularly could give the impression that he is running an illegal gunsmithing operation. Just be careful and know the laws. I just do 90% of the work myself, better for everyone that way.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I got my son a S-12 from MD Arms two years ago for Christmas and he did the conversion himself. After seeing his work

and shooting that beast, I've thought about buying one for myself. I just told him about this thread and the 1911 spring

thing. He's the AK/Saiga nut in our house and didn't know about the springs. Thanks, guys.

Hershmeister! If I can get the video, I'll show you my son dumping that 20 rd mag in about 5-6 seconds. It was a blast and

sounded like a machine gun. Funniest waste of ammo I ever saw.

[Dolomite_supafly]

They also recommend the spring during break in. I left mine in there without a single issue. I can shoot low and high brass on the 1 setting. I don't even have issues with impacts at the rear of the receiver.

I will say that Tapco hammers are responsible for a lot of cycling issues. The are higher so they drag harder on the bottom of the bolt. Even after profiling they can cause problems because they don't hit the firing pin square. If the gun is having cycling issues put the Saiga hammer back in, most times that will fix it.

Dolomite

[Motasyco]

Dolomite, I sure would like to hear your process for polishing of the bolt and carrier. I'd like to do the same to mine. Although I've not had any problems, I'm always interested in making it better. This sounds like reliability insurance.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I basically duplicated this:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/61900-paulys-glass-bolt-system/

I used an angle die grinder with finer and finer pads then used a buffing wheel to finish it off. The most important part is to take you time. ANd because you are using power tools use very fine sanding pads to start off with. I think I started with 180 then when finer.

Just basically round all distinct lines on the bottom of the bolt. It makes inserting a loaded mag easier as well as improve cycling.

Dolomite