RFC: unleashed dog, toddler, and a lowes parking lot ...

[gjohnsoniv]

Classic, I like it.

[ncomarc]

I love dogs, all kinds, even dominant breeds. I also know that they are unpredictable so I react like you did, me in between an unknown dog and my loved ones no matter the size or demeanor of said dog. Problem is that you don't know how the owner trained/loved the dog so it's better to be safe. Between reading posts on this subject, talking with the wife and even a good friend, it'll play out and not be a burden to ya. Glad all worked out well.

[Guest ricks]

thanks all for the comments and advice. this week i picked up the kimber blaster 2 pepper spray to keep on me for our upcoming neighborhood and surrounding area walks.

thanks again, this thread really helped make me feel better.

[oldogy]

You and your wife both did fine, protect the kids. A kid off the ground and in a parent's arms is not going to be harmed very much by a medium size dog unless the dog is trained to attack. JMO

oldogy

[98SS1LWEE]

Okay, since i have two miniature Schnauzers that i treat like my children, I NEED to chime in on this one. I can not speak for everyone that is that guy saying"It's okay" but I can say this has been me TOO many times lately. Granted, my dogs are small, but that doesn't make it okay that a dog(2 actually) come running at you, or God forbid your children, barking and sprinting. Again, my dogs are the absolute worst about this, so I do everythign in my power to keep them at hoem ro on a leash but it happens. If it wee to happen that someone were to pick up thier child and drop kick my dog, you will not get a cruelty to animals comment from me. I will politely apologize as best I can and pray it's not a large vet bill as they are my responsibility! If in fact it comes to it that you shoot my dog, i will be upset, in tears even, but not upset with you. I understand my animal's actions and I woudl see them as threatening....

So, I feel you did everything perfect, and honestly, maybe even a little reserved! I probabyl woudl have let the owners have it, as I have received that tongue lashing numerous times! Props to you my friend!

[Wheelgunner]

@ the OP - I like that you and your wife were both there to react. It seems like I see a lot of lone parents with more two or three kids at the store, grocery, etc. When I see that I wonder, "What would you do if something bad happened right now? How would you get both (or all three) kids under control/protect them/get them to the car quickly?" Doubt it could be done. Like herding cats! Obviously, as they get older, this is less of an issue.

I think the right answer starts with not leaving the house with more kids than you can handle (or in this case, pick up). I'll remember your story for a long time. Thanks for posting.

[bigwakes]

I might try to put my daughter on a random persons car hood or trunk and take the potential consequences of a pissed off owner. Doesn't sound like that was an option in the time you had. I used to work in homes and yards every day and I came in contact with plenty of dogs. I always had a 3 step approach. Step one was try to be friendly, let them smell the hand and all that jazz. Step two was give loud commands of stop and get back with a stomp on the ground which worked 95% of the time. I typically had a tool belt and step 3 was grab the largest item on the tool belt to put between me and the dog. I could strike with it if I needed, but only ever had to hit one dog. And the only dog that ever bit me, of course, never bit anyone before me. Luckily it was the heel of my boot and left some pretty nice teeth marks in the rubber of the heel and not my calf.

[Guest jkintn]

Kudos to you and your wife for actually holding your kids' hands while walking through the parking lot. I see too many parents trying to juggle four shopping bags while talking on their cell phones walking down the middle of the car lane while their kids push/shove each other while running to their vehicle and no one is watching traffic. I am a parent of two young kids (4 and 6). When I have them with me alone I have one on each side and holding their hands or if wife and I area together each of us has one child. It's not just stupid people with dogs like you describe...it's also idiot drivers that you have to watch out for.

In the situation you described, I would have kicked the owner. It amazes me the number of people that have to take their dogs to the store with them...especially those with no leashes or the 25-ft retractable leashes that are never held close to the owner.

I also know laws differ between "city" and "country" living but one reason I got my HCP is to carry with me while cycling in the country. Too many loose dogs roaming around.

[D3vo]

Years ago I was walking my large cocker spaniel and a chow targeted my dog and so picked it up. While my hands were full the Chow jumped and latched onto my dog’s hind leg. I could kick, but with my hands full that was all I could do. With this as my only point of reference I would have done what you did.

[Makiaveli]

Never, ever get in the middle of a dog fight. I'm not talking about them growling and snapping at each other, but a full-on fur ball. I know you'd like to protect your precious baby too, but dogs go to fully primal kill everything mode, which includes you. The white of their eyes turn red and it's game on. If you can intervene before it gets to that, great. If not, best to just get away and wait for it to be over.

I missed this post earlier apparently. This is good advice. However, I had good luck with a 2x4 when I decided 5 dogs on 1 cat wasn't a fair fight. Yes I was young and stupid, as I owned none of the animals involved. Wound up with a $6 million dollar cat though. Seriously, thank the gods the vet cut me some serious slack on the bill. And that, my son, is why we can't have nice things. Daddy talks like a hard-ass, then saves a stray cat.

I also know laws differ between "city" and "country" living but one reason I got my HCP is to carry with me while cycling in the country. Too many loose dogs roaming around.

Just remember when you drive out to the country to ride your bike, you are the guest and my dog lives here. I catch the a-hole who pepper-sprayed my dog for barking, and I will only use harsh language as anything else would be illegal. FTR, a neighbor saw it happen, and my dog (a German Shepherd) was not attacking, was standing still and barking and this a-hole walked up and sprayed her. Speaking of vet bills......not all dogs react well to that.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Makiaveli

[JReedEsq]

Just remember when you drive out to the country to ride your bike, you are the guest and my dog lives here. I catch the a-hole who pepper-sprayed my dog for barking, and I will only use harsh language as anything else would be illegal.

As a cyclist and a dog owner, I've got to ask you... Did the person pepper spray your dog on your property or in the road? I'd hate to see a dog that isn't posing a threat be pepper sprayed. But, then again, I hope you're not saying your dog has the right to chase someone down the road just because you happen to live in the country?

Edited March 30, 2012 by JReedEsq

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Just remember when you drive out to the country to ride your bike, you are the guest and my dog lives here. I catch the a-hole who pepper-sprayed my dog for barking, and I will only use harsh language as anything else would be illegal. FTR, a neighbor saw it happen, and my dog (a German Shepherd) was not attacking, was standing still and barking and this a-hole walked up and sprayed her. Speaking of vet bills......not all dogs react well to that.

Agreed it is a matter of situation. When I had dogs obedient enough to take out leash-walking, it was always in my neighborhood. There is a leash law and dogs ain't sposed to be loose. I had to choose routes because some of the more inconsiderate neighbors know that except for emergencies, Animal Control knocks off at 5p on week days and don't work at all on weekends. So they keep their dogs latched up til after 5p and then let em out to hassle neighbors walking up the street.

So I had to arrange my usual dog-walking routes to avoid the streets these asshats would live on, though I would walk those routes without my dogs. Spraying a dog is a last resort, especially if somebody inconsiderate enough to let their little angel out on the street to hassle neighbors, is probably inconsiderate enough to get mad if you spray their little angel.

There is one feller a few blocks up the street who has several cute little bulldogs, maybe 30 or 40 pounds. After 5p when he lets em out, they come running when they see you about a block away, then pack-stalk til your a block on the other side. They are not dangerous, but sneaky little cowards. They will keep getting closer and closer on your heels and then try to nip yer leg or butt. Have to occasionally turn around and "rush" em to warn em back. If those little pests get a kick or a snoot full of pepper, the only concern is if their idiot owner takes exception.

Down the other direction used to be an ill-tempered little corgy that would run out trying to fight dogs thrice his size. Pepper spray cured that problem after a couple of treatments.

[Makiaveli]

As a cyclist and a dog owner, I've got to ask you... Did the person pepper spray your dog on your property or in the road? I'd hate to see a dog that isn't posing a threat be pepper sprayed. But, then again, I hope you're not saying your dog has the right to chase someone down the road just because you happen to live in the country?

As I said, a neighbor saw it happen. My dog was standing on my property next to the road and the person who was in the road on the far side crossed over and while in the road sprayed my dog who had not moved an inch.

No chasing occurred. My dog wasn't being aggressive and so there was no reason they couldn't have continued to just keep walking.

No, I am not saying my dog has the right to chase people etc etc. I am saying that the people need to exercise caution when dealing with other people's animals/property. I live in the Joelton/Goodlettsville area and I will for damn sure follow you until the police show up if I catch you assaulting my dog. Then I will contact one of your colleagues and get the vet bill out of your "assets".

Agreed it is a matter of situation.

Exactly. If my dog had been attacking, then I would have been apologizing. If she had been acting aggressive etc, then I would have understood. I know that other people don't know her or her history, and so I don't expect them to treat her any differently than any other potentially dangerous animal.

The fact that she was a rescue dog and was so abused that it took almost 2 years before we ever heard her bark (and she ran and hid under the bed when she did as she was so afraid of being punished etc) is moot because it isn't a fact known to anyone but us. As it is, when she alerts she usually barks once and runs to find me. That day was likely the fault of a neighborhood lab who barks at any and all movement. Point being, I am not pissed she was sprayed, I am pissed she was sprayed when she wasn't a threat and more to the point, wasn't appearing to pose a threat. It was likely some a-hole who wanted to be a bad-ass and show off for his friends.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Makiaveli

[JReedEsq]

No, I am not saying my dog has the right to chase people etc etc. I am saying that the people need to exercise caution when dealing with other people's animals/property. I live in the Joelton/Goodlettsville area and I will for damn sure follow you until the police show up if I catch you assaulting my dog. Then I will contact one of your colleagues and get the vet bill out of your "assets".

Relax. I'm not going to spray anyone's dog on their property. I love dogs. I will not, however, put my life at risk riding on the wrong side of the road to avoid a dog. I also don't plan to have my calf knawed on again. FYI, I've been bitten by a small dog while riding. Although I was highly pi$$ed that the people didn't come to the door and apologize, I didn't sue. I did get the Sheriff's Dept to go out and have them produce vaccination records and that's the end of the story. I agree that it's way out of line for someone to spray your dog on your property. However, if your dog is acts threatening and leaves your yard, I very seriously doubt you'll ever get a cent from someone who takes defensive action.

Edited March 30, 2012 by JReedEsq

[Makiaveli]

Relax. I'm not going to spray anyone's dog on their property. I love dogs. I will not, however, put my life at risk riding on the wrong side of the road to avoid a dog. I also don't plan to have my calf knawed on again. FYI, I've been bitten by a small dog while riding. Although I was highly pi$$ed that the people didn't come to the door and apologize, I didn't sue. I did get the Sheriff's Dept to go out and have them produce vaccination records and that's the end of the story. I agree that it's way out of line for someone to spray your dog on your property. However, if your dog is acts threatening and leaves your yard, I very seriously doubt you'll ever get a cent from someone who takes defensive action.

First, I didn't use "you" in the sense of you personally. Therefore, I have no real worry about you personally coming to my house and attacking my dog. You seem to think I am taking this conversation personally, when I am just pissed about the family dog having a full on medical event that the vet said could have been fatal if we hadn't brought her in.

Also, I never said anything about suing or even verbally harassing someone who defended themselves from my dog. Even if she wasn't attacking but gave the appearance of doing so etc. Covered all that. I said if someone effectively attacked my dog without provocation.

FTR I dropped out of my Criminal Justice/Pre-Law courses one semester before graduation because I broke one knee and trashed the other so my LE career was over before it began, not because I couldn't comprehend the law.

[Volphin]

You did great! You assumed the proper position to destroy the animal if need be.

If such a need arises, weak forearm is placed on top of the the neck at the base of the skull, perpendicular to the backbone. Strong hand or forearm to the underside of the chin or even in mouth. Snap strong forearm or hand upwards violently while pushing down on back of the neck base with weak arm. Snap. Done. Can also be easily accomplished by falling forward into the dog using your body leverage, and is more effective if the strong arm is in the jaws. Most people start flailing or go to the ground. That is the incorrect response. Then the dog has leverage on his side.

[jtmaze]

I think you did great. As an volunteer animal cruelty investigator for the SPCA, I have confronted 100s of strange dogs and they all react differently. Key is you between dog and kids and defend yourself appropriately. I know of a case where the lead investigator on an animal cruelty case had to shoot a pit bill that had a hold on his arm. Awareness is the key. You did great and no one got hurt.