Whats your SHTF?

[LI0NSFAN]

I thought about getting PGA and still might. It would be trade and medical purpose only. I just right now am stocking up on survival stuff first.

[Jonnin]

I have stocked up on all those but booze, I dont drink so it would go to waste if shtf doesn't happen

You really need to re-think your policy. Not about drinking (I also do not drink, hardly at all, its related to my 24-7 carry policy) but strong booze like rum or whiskey is a medicine in a world where there is little else. It can be used to clean wounds, cures a variety of sore throat type ills, and can be used as a painkiller, just to name a few uses. Thankfully, its not too hard to make so you do not need a huge supply, just a couple of bottles.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Jonnin

[LI0NSFAN]

Thats why I am not writting it off yet.

[Moped]

1. A natural disaster - Likely

2. An attack from outside our Borders - Likely

3. Plaque or Epidemic of some type - Likely

3. Economic collapse followed by civil unrest - Possible

4. Government overthrow - Not likely

I think there is always a high probability that there will be some weather related natural disaster or maybe an earthquake on a localized level. I also think that at some point we will be attacked again, either by a country or a terrorist group with a nuclear device. I really fear an EMP attack, as I think we are totally unprepared for such an event. I think at some point we will also see some sort of an epidemic, either natural or man made. This could even be in the form of a terrorist attack. Economically, while I don't think it's likely I do think it could possibly happen, but I think we'd have some warning of impending doom and we would have a chance to prepare for it. I really don't buy into the Government over throw thing. I think that's pretty much Tin Foil Hat time.

Alcohol would be one of those great items to put back. If I had the money, I would put several cases of cheap stuff back. It can be used for medical situations, as a fuel, to drink and to trade. IMO, it would be worth more than gold or silver. Other items that should be put back are gunpowder, lead, paper, various medicines such as antibiotics and pain killers, bows and arrows, bullets, spices, hand tools, seeds... the list could be endless!

Edited March 27, 2012 by Moped

[LI0NSFAN]

I totally agree with your list Moped. I think all of your list is something that can be waited out by secluding and defending yourself. I doubt the last would happen and do feel that we would have enough time to prepare for that.

[Moped]

I actually plan on moving my family in a SHTF situation, but only a short distance and only because I have a butt load of family in that area for support. Otherwise I would stay put like you are planning on doing, CS_1999.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Moped

[LI0NSFAN]

If it looks like the country is heading for a total loss my whole family is to meet on my property in Canada. It is a 500 acre farm that is completely off the grid, Solar and Hydro power and well water. and plenty of land to build if needed. Otherwise I am staying put here in E TN

[Moped]

Man, Canada could be a long haul! It could take you months if it was really bad. Hopefully, if you had some warning (which I hope we have in a international or national SHTF situation) you could move up there before hand.

I like some of your plans, though. You came up with a good plan of attack with the firearms.

[LI0NSFAN]

I am hoping for enough warning for an all out eotw international colapse, If not I will just hold out here. The plan of attack on the guns was formed out of a couple of good ideas in this thread so I did not really come up with it but it made sense to me, but thank you

[Guest 270win]

Disasters like Katrina caused people to migrate away from New Orleans. Natural disasters are common and can displace people. If my town went without basic services very long, like New Orleans did after the hurricane, I would just have to seriously consider relocating and starting a new home, business, and work elsewhere. It is kind of hard to have a business in a place like New Orleans after Katrina where the place is a mess.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Major difference here and Katrina - remember, Nashville got hit, HARD by a huge flood, we recovered quickly. Different people here, and different location.

Basically, I think you list is a little over, particularly #2.

I think most events will be weather related, followed by disease (look at the flu outbreak they had in the early 1900's)

Basically put, the estimated food amount in the average grocery is 3 days... Something to think about.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Alcohol would be one of those great items to put back. If I had the money, I would put several cases of cheap stuff back. It can be used for medical situations, as a fuel, to drink and to trade. IMO, it would be worth more than gold or silver. Other items that should be put back are gunpowder, lead, paper, various medicines such as antibiotics and pain killers, bows and arrows, bullets, spices, hand tools, seeds... the list could be endless!

Had been doing some more study on the alcohol from our thread a couple of weeks ago but haven't had time to post another message on that thread.

I ran across a forum which appeared dedicated entirely to home-made alcohol stoves and alcohol lanterns for camping. It was alleged on that forum that 91 percent drug store Isopropyl alcohol releases higher energy when burned than equivalent concentrations of ethanol or methanol. Did not research to verify if that is actually true. Isopropyl is also obviously good for disinfection and many other typical uses of ethanol, except for drinking the stuff of course. I've never tried drinking isopropanol (and have to intention to try it) though drinking isopropanol is said to be at best an unpleasant experience.

I use isopropyl for dousing cuts and scrapes and as a cleaning solvent in many purposes. I'll frequently clean out grime from nooks and crannies in pistols or roomba robots using isopropyl soaked q tips.

Previously used Lysol disinfecting spray for surface disinfection or to thoroughly soak cleaned up spots on the floor if the dog had an accident. But then noticed the contents of the relatively expensive cans-- Only two antimicrobial ingredients-- Ethanol and Alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium saccharinate.

So I got some jumbo heavy duty spray bottles from Home Depot painting dept. I keep one spray bottle filled with 91 percent drug store isopropanol. I keep another spray bottle filled with 23 oz water and 1 oz full strength Clorox, which is about as strong as you want to risk getting on yer hands or breathing it much, used as a surface disinfectant. Acetic acid-- White vinegar is also a good disinfectant among other uses.

The clorox or isopropyl will ruin the sprayer mechanism after a year or two, so have to buy new $3 to $6 heavy duty spray bottles every year or two. I've found that the gray-colored opaque slightly more expensive Home Depot spray bottles seem to give longer service and seem to pump better.

Works as good as Lysol as best I can tell and is cheap cheap cheap. In addition, I noticed that isopropyl in a spray bottle is very cheap compared to disposable Lysol spray cans.

Had bought for testing 750 ml Golden Grain 190 proof PGA for a little over $10.00 as best can recall, lots of sin tax tacked on. Walmart sells 946 ml of 91% isopropyl for $2.58, and maybe somebody could find a better bulk price, dunno.

So maybe it would be better to stock lots of isopropyl for medical, disinfection, cleaning and fuel, and save the more-expensive PGA for human consumption? Only use the PGA for fuel, disinfection or cleaning solvent if you happened to have used up all the cheaper isopropyl?

[LI0NSFAN]

I have some isopropyl stocked up, a lot of other preppers have pushed the idea of stocking up on PGA a lot. I think I will get a little but stock more isopropyl

[Caster]

I have some isopropyl stocked up, a lot of other preppers have pushed the idea of stocking up on PGA a lot. I think I will get a little but stock more isopropyl

Everclear will take the place of isopropyl but NOT the other way around. Just for thought.

[LI0NSFAN]

Just don't ever plan on drinking. I have only tasted alcohol a couple times in my life and that was over 8 years ago. I just don't see me ever needing to drink it. Trade maybe but probably not.

[Caster]

Just don't ever plan on drinking. I have only tasted alcohol a couple times in my life and that was over 8 years ago. I just don't see me ever needing to drink it. Trade maybe but probably not.

I think you might need to broaden you ideas of drinking. We're not talking about tying one on here. Examples.

*Mixed with honey and lemon in a hot tea it will sooth a sore throat and help you sleep. You can even do that one up for the kids in weaker doses.

*A shot a few minutes before pulling a tooth, and a diluted shot to GENTLY rinse a few days later, and/or anytime for an oral antiseptic.

*If you're man enough....I have tossed it down the hatch on a stomach virus. It's ROUGH, but it will kill the heck out of it. Best to sleep on it.

*Speaking of sleep, it can help with that and for flu/colds and fever it can help you sleep it off and sweat it out.

Getting hammered in a SHTF situation is just irresponsible.

[LI0NSFAN]

What is a good price on a PGA and which brand to get?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Have only purchased one test bottle, but the most common brands seem Everclear and Golden Grain, which are both manufactured by the same company. Perhaps they are the identical product sold thru different arms of a holding company.

The liquor store I looked at, had (IIRC) 150 proof Everclear and 190 proof Golden Grain. If remembering correctly from reading a couple weeks ago, Everclear is sold at 150 proof and 190 proof and Golden Grain 190 proof only. Proof is double the alcohol content by volume, so 150 proof would be 75% alcohol, etc.

The wikipedia article said that PGA is illegal in some countries and either illegal or not-commonly-available in some USA states, though commonly available in the southeast (duh. nothing mixes better than gunpowder and alcohol )

Wikipedia says that those brands are "relatively free" of the typical impurities that ride along with the distillation process. I tried to find an msds or report from any private party who may have performed quantitative chemical analysis, to find out what concentration of noxious chemicals qualifies as "relatively pure" but was unable to locate such a reference. Presumably it is not poisonous levels or the FDA would ban it, though the FDA allows the sale of such nasty stuff as Boones Farm or Mogen David 20/20 wines, so the purity specs are apparently not very strict.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[atlas3025]

Not to hi-jack the thread from the value of Alcohol (it is valuable now and will continue to be), but I wanted to chime in on the SHTF scenario.

So many scenarios listed here are possible, some even probable. There are only a few that could come any moment and we would have no warning, and of those, most would not be a long term issue.

The one that could come with no warning, change everything for ever, and we have no evidence to suggest how likely or unlikely it is, is the old classic that no one on "Doomsday Preppers" ever mentions, and its more scary than zombies.

Aliens.

It is nearly a mathimatic impossibility that there is NOT intelligent life out there. In fact, it is likely there are COUNTLESS intelligent races.

Many of you may say, "if an alien race has the technology to get here, there is no "prepping" that can be done. They will simply scrape us off this planet with their boot heel and be done with it."

That is a distinct possibility. But, we have numerous examples in Earth's history where a vastly superior invader did NOT completely wipe out the native population.

One great thing about prepping is that alot of the work you do for one SHTF scenario will be helpful for a different one, so whatever gets you going is the one for which to prepare. But about everytime I stop to think, "well, the dollar could pull through" or "I am 600 miles form a major faultline" or "I live in a rural area"...I remember that hostiles from Zeta Reticuli could be popping into our solar La Grange as we speak.

Maybe they have have The Death Star, or maybe they are just Force Recon wanting to see how resilient we are. Can they just roll us into the sea, or will we get our "guerilla on". If they have the Death Star, then prepping isn't much good unless you are building a space raft. But if they have a media like we do...then if we make it nasty enough, maybe we survive.

Cheers!

Edited March 30, 2012 by atlas3025

[Caster]

Fear not Atlas, Falling skies two hour season premier this June 17, 9/8C

I've pondered that for years. Many Christians will scoff at the very idea because in their limited tunnel visioned view of things, they can't see it. I say: Plausible, but not probable. If you follow the end times prophecies you will find Israel, and the four Kingdoms. The kings of the north being russian with possible alliances w/ some arab nations. Kings of the south being African nations. Kings of the west being a unified European union and the kings of the east, China. North and south american countries are not mentioned which lead some to believe they are either non existent, folded into one of the other kingdoms or so far below third world status that it bears no importance to mention them. SO, what could happen that could cause the USA, Canada, [head south] Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina ECT. to fall by the wayside??? Well, destruction from thermonuclear war would certainly do it. With the politicians we have now selling our souls to the rest of the world, it's possible we are slaves to another tyrant. MAYBE, [and it's a looong stretch] Your aliens you mentioned landed HERE for their invasion. Maybe we aren't worth mentioning because they came to this side of earth, they kicked our butt but we made them pay so dearly that they left not wanting to tangle with the other half of the world.

Yes, the active mind with too much free time ponders these things despite their surface finish of lunacy.

[Guest ExTexan]

You could not have been more accurate about Christians and tunnel vision. I find it hard to come across Christians who are open minded about almost anything......

I agree with everything on here as far as prepping but it is almost impossible to prep for a certain situation and most will have to do what they can to "cover all their bases".

This is a great site and nice to kill time on here.....2 weeks in North Dakota a month does allow my mind to wander.

[Curiousgb]

Just my opinion, but if the bottom falls out. The only thing people are going to be looking for is food and shelter. If you offered me a brick of gold for my last hot dog, you would be sol. So, in my mind the only thing of value will be bullets, bread and shelter, and the ability to hold on to it. There will be folks that band together and remain sane. But, If you live near a big city like I do, the Zombie Apocalypse will look tame compared to the hungry masses fanning out to the country in search of food and shelter.

[Mike.357]

just to note, Everclear brand pga has dropped their alcohol content to 150 proof. I am not so sure they dropped the price.

There are several other labels of 190 proof pga out there.

[Garufa]

just to note, Everclear brand pga has dropped their alcohol content to 150 proof. I am not so sure they dropped the price.

Is nothing sacred?

[Mike.357]

the dropping of alcohol content pissed a lot of people off.

One of my drivers first hand saw an old guy throwing a fit saying that the store owner had not informed him of the change.

the old guy said "you ruined my batch!" among other things.

I did not think it was going to be a strong product for us, but I was wrong. Our label does very well.