White privilege and the politics of race

[Guest profgunner]

As the controversy surrounding the Florida situation grows, I think it is important that we make an attempt to understand the phillosphy that motivates different viewpoints. This perspective (see link) is widely promoted in academia.

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/whiteness05.htm

[DaveTN]

As the controversy surrounding the Florida situation grows, I think it is important that we make an attempt to understand the phillosphy that motivates different viewpoints. This perspective (see link) is widely promoted in academia.

The only philosophy or viewpoints I’m interested in are the legal ones surrounding this. Racists on both sides will make race an issue. Since we don’t know either person involved we have no idea if race was an issue. And unless someone is charged with a hate crime it won’t matter.

[Guest profgunner]

The only philosophy or viewpoints I’m interested in are the legal ones surrounding this. Racists on both sides will make race an issue. Since we don’t know either person involved we have no idea if race was an issue. And unless someone is charged with a hate crime it won’t matter.

Race is already an issue. The implications of this go far beyond what the shooter was thinking when he pulled the trigger.

[1pointofview]

sorry, but without getting deep into a discussion. but I am tired of one group able to have a music genre free to call white folks anything they want but the moment anyone of the white persuasion utters something negative against another race is national news.

[Jonnin]

I have a real problem with the idea of a HATE crime. It makes any crime committed by a white (or, in the recent shooting case, even a near-white) into something else while a pass is given to anyone of any other race that attacks a white person in all but the most extreme circumstances. On top of that, it implies that the jury can determine the motivation for any old crime well beyond what may or may not have happened. It also makes a crime of things that are not criminal behavior... are people (whites!) to be charged now for their speech? If nothing but a shouting match happens between 2 people, one white and one not, and both use racial slurs, guess who will be charged with mr hate crime? Its just more of the same anti-white reverse discrimination that liberals always try to push... on par with crap like hiring quotas or breaks given to minority owned or woman owned businesses (govt contracts, yes it happens).

Or, to put it simply, I do not care why someone beat someone else to a pulp or disturbed the peace with a shouting match or spray painted the other guy's door or whatever the heck else. I really do not care. Prove they did it, toss em in jail or hang em, and its sufficient. The punishment needs to be the same whether it was motivated by racial dislike or a disagreement over which baseball team is better.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I glanced at that. Thanks for putting it up. That doesn't mean I agree with it, though. A group

of say green origin that landed on the shores of a new land and establishes a country that

takes hold and becomes prosperous will ultimately see immigrants arrive because they want

to prosper. Since they are now the new ones and since humans naturally have bias built in

their genetic code, they will for lack of a better word, be the inferior ones in the evolution of

the country until they become established.

That isn't exactly how America started, and the introduction of race differences in this country

are skewed because of the introduction of a class of people who were brought here for slave

labor. It was allowed to exist for a long time but finally abolished. I wasn't around back then,

and none of the rest of us were, either, but for too long a time there have been those that think

we should make reparations for past deeds because someone's ancestor owned slaves.

Then you have the political component and it has allowed and even been the problem with the

victimization of that class. I wasn't around then, but now it seems we hear of all the tragedies,

yet we passed all kinds of laws to protect this class and even raise it above other classes to

the point of diminishing other classes. What's right about that? I don't really see any white

privilege, but that may be because of my views on life, in general. Never in my life did I think I

was any better than anyone else, probably because I was raised by a good parents who didn't

consider themselves to be better or worse, either.

I consider privilege to be based on an individual's accomplishments and not by what class they

are and when college level curriculum is introduced to learn about "White Privilege", I take offense

to it, because I think they are up to no good and do not do anything positive to achieve a truly

color blind society. Humans are biased. It's studied in psychology to the nth degree already.

i don't like to be singled out for something I have nothing to do with because it implies I have privilege

someone else doesn't because I'm better in some way. Nonproductive.

The best thing that could happen concerning race relations in this country is to shut up the bad

actors. I don't think I need to name names, either. We would probably get along just fine without

them injecting racism in everything that happens.

Edited March 25, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[DaveTN]

Race is already an issue. The implications of this go far beyond what the shooter was thinking when he pulled the trigger.

No it doesn’t and I could care less what the implications are or what they will be. Did the guy get out of his truck and attack and kill that kid, or did he get out, confront the kid, and then try to walk back to his truck when he was attacked. Was he in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm? Those are the questions I want answered.

If that kid wasn’t doing anything wrong and that guy started a situation that led to the kids death; I think he should be convicted of murder. However, we don’t have a justice system, we have a legal system. And if lawyers can make a jury believe that the kid attacked him while he was getting back in his truck; he may get off. People like him don’t need to carry a gun, unfortunately by the time that is discovered it’s usually too late.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The only person who has ever improved his or her own condition in America, in reality, has

been the one who accomplished something or died trying to. The ones who did it right were

the ones who didn't do it on the backs of others.The more important aspects of success at

life are character, ambition and respect of others, not some discussion of someone else's

privilege. That breeds envy, which is a deadly sin. They do it differently in Europe, and it's

all about privilege over there. I see a huge difference.

[Guest profgunner]

I glanced at that. Thanks for putting it up. That doesn't mean I agree with it, though.

I don't buy into it either, but it helps me to understand why so many people apparently think the Florida shooting was racially motivated. There is a large number of people in this country who feel like they continue to be screwed because of the color of their skin. If this were not true, Al and Jesse would be talking to empty seats.

[Guest profgunner]

The only person who has ever improved his or her own condition in America, in reality, has

been the one who accomplished something or died trying to.

I think this is true. I believe the implementation of social welfare on a national scale has done enormous damage to our country. There are now families who have been receiving welfare for multiple generations. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the implications of this.

[RobertNashville]

I'm almost as sick of the "race card" as I am of "political correctness".

I know that racism exists...I know that it will likely never be truly gone... but I'm sick to death of it being an excuse for everything bad that ever happens to someone. I believe that most people today are willing to judge a person by their actions rather than by their skin color but often times, we never even get the chance to do so before we are called a racist.

[DaveTN]

I think this is true. I believe the implementation of social welfare on a national scale has done enormous damage to our country. There are now families who have been receiving welfare for multiple generations. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the implications of this.

They are voters that are united by a cause…. The promise of money. The implications are that we are never going to get another President elected unless they know he will give them what they want.

[Guest profgunner]

I believe that most people today are willing to judge a person by their actions rather than by their skin color but often times, we never even get the chance to do so before we are called a racist.

I agree with you. It is maddening to make logical arguments, supported by facts, only to have someone who doesn't agree with you throw the race card in your face.

[Grunt67]

I have a real problem with the idea of a HATE crime. It makes any crime committed by a white (or, in the recent shooting case, even a near-white) into something else while a pass is given to anyone of any other race that attacks a white person in all but the most extreme circumstances. On top of that, it implies that the jury can determine the motivation for any old crime well beyond what may or may not have happened. It also makes a crime of things that are not criminal behavior... are people (whites!) to be charged now for their speech? If nothing but a shouting match happens between 2 people, one white and one not, and both use racial slurs, guess who will be charged with mr hate crime? Its just more of the same anti-white reverse discrimination that liberals always try to push... on par with crap like hiring quotas or breaks given to minority owned or woman owned businesses (govt contracts, yes it happens).

Or, to put it simply, I do not care why someone beat someone else to a pulp or disturbed the peace with a shouting match or spray painted the other guy's door or whatever the heck else. I really do not care. Prove they did it, toss em in jail or hang em, and its sufficient. The punishment needs to be the same whether it was motivated by racial dislike or a disagreement over which baseball team is better.

Totally agree Jonnin. This whole "hate crime" thing has gotten waaaay out of control. Personally,

if some dude shoots me, dead or not, I couldn't care less if they hated me or not. It'll either

hurt the same or just as dead. Just another excuse to add another charge to the mix.

This whole Florida case has turned into a media circus, with evryone on the block wanting their

face on TV.

Wait until it plays out in court, then see where the chips fall.

[East_TN_Patriot]

All I will say is this. I am in academia and I teach a class on race & crime. I talk about the issue of white privilege frequently. I was a street cop and someone who thought the idea of white privilege was idiotic. The more I read, studied, and pondered things, the more I realized that it wasn't as idiotic as I once thought. There is plenty of data to show that institutionalized bias exists. The issue of privilege and bias goes to the deeper questions of why either of these individuals were involved in this incident, the motives for their behavior, and the public reaction to it. People see the world from their own worldview. We see it differently than people who have a very different set of life experiences. Some of the complaints made by various minority groups are legitimate. Some are not, but are based on flawed logic that is reproduced within their social circles. When I tried to look at the link, it wouldn't work for me so I can't speak to the content of that particular source.

DaveTN made a very valid point. Our legal system doesn't account for bias. It's only interested in the basic facts. The basic facts of this case are important and hopefully will come out, but I would say that we should think about these incidents and our reaction to them more deeply. It's too easy to just write these things off as bad decisions and lay blame without thinking about the more subtle issues that contribute to these events.

Edited March 26, 2012 by East_TN_Patriot

[Guest 6.8 AR]

"We see it differently than people who have a very different set of life experiences."

Because we are individuals living among a nation of individuals. For those who might consider this

"White Privilege", maybe they should do something else with their lives, instead of complaining about

something they may not have tried to accomplish. I don't buy the argument of white privilege or any

other brand of privilege. Are we using the caste system in the USA now? Or maybe there are still

Barons, Lords and serfs.

The argument of white privilege is nothing but racism against whites. But I wonder if that is possible?

"Some of the complaints made by various minority groups are legitimate."

Which ones and by whom?

Maybe there are legitimate complaints. I don't know, but I won't go looking for Derek Bell's answer.

The race card is alive and well in the USA. It should be sent elsewhere. We don't need that crap.

Now as far as institutional bias, consider redlining and steering in the real estate industry. Such a

heinous crime. People want to live where they want to live. They should be able to qualify for the

mortgage payment. The Community Reinvestment Act of 1978(?) set in motion the current mess

in that industry so as to crash a marketplace so literally billions of dollars in equity was lost because

of the loans that were given to people who couldn't afford to pay for it. I guess they needed to "feel"

better about themselves so money was just thrown out the window for a certain large group of people.

People need to start doing for themselves and quit making excuses for their own behaviour and start

acting like responsible people.

White privilege is nothing more than blatant racism.

[Smith]

"Racism" comes down to people (any race) looking for someone else to blame for their lack of character, success, or work ethic. I reality most people groups tend to do better under oppression. The black community in America actually did far better under segregation than they are now. Every societal statistic backs that up. This country thrived and exploded in ingenuity and character every time we were doubted. Keep in mind just about every ethnic group that came to America experienced racism. It made America what it is.

Point is, it is difficult when you have everything to explain why you've done nothing with it. Racism, for a lot of people, is an easy emotional rationale for why they are cowards. These people use the brave character of a generation past like Paris Hilton uses her family name and fortune.

[quietguy]

-

Edited March 29, 2012 by quietguy

[Guest lostpass]

I think this is true. I believe the implementation of social welfare on a national scale has done enormous damage to our country. There are now families who have been receiving welfare for multiple generations. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the implications of this.

Yeah, that's true enough but the thing is that those families are mostly white. Cause most welfare goes to white folks and all. Visit the rural areas sometime and spend some time there. You'll discover a more than a few unwed mothers with kids waiting on the check.

[Smith]

I should also add that the article itself is some of the most incredibly flawed nonsensical philosophical garbage I have seen in a while. If you deny it, you are socially ignorant racist almost by genetic default and if you agree it is because you are not part of the "privileged." Again, people trying to explain their mediocrity with intangible, unmeasurable, indefensible, emotional garbage. It's the same logic that claimed the world was flat and any one who disagreed was a heretic.

[Guest lostpass]

"Racism" comes down to people (any race) looking for someone else to blame for their lack of character, success, or work ethic. I reality most people groups tend to do better under oppression. The black community in America actually did far better under segregation than they are now. Every societal statistic backs that up. This country thrived and exploded in ingenuity and character every time we were doubted. Keep in mind just about every ethnic group that came to America experienced racism. It made America what it is. Point is, it is difficult when you have everything to explain why you've done nothing with it. Racism, for a lot of people, is an easy emotional rationale for why they are cowards. These people use the brave character of a generation past like Paris Hilton uses her family name and fortune.

Ye

Yeah, that is something I'd need to see backed up with links or something. It hasn't been my experience.

The thing about every group experiencing racism is obviously false. Irish are white folks as are the Spanish. they did not experience racism, they did experience prejudice. Every irishman is a drunkard and so forth. But that isn' racism, that is just being a jerk.

Tell me more about how times were better with segregation.

[Smith]

Tell me more about how times were better with segregation.

Look at New York during similar periods. There is a reason there are different ethnic Burroughs in the major cities and it's not just because it made the place more interesting.

You might need to broaden your experience. BTW - personal experience means little in this context.

Also, didn't say times were better but as a culture they did better. Innovation, marriages, traditional family values, abortion rates, drug rates, violence rates, crime rates, fatherless children rates, education rates, prison rates, ..... Just about every quantifiable measurement of a healthy culture was better.

Of course that is not an argument for segregation, just saying that the black culture was built on the backs of those who persevered then turned over to a spoiled and ungrateful generation who have settled for less than mediocre. That's also not to say this hasn't happened to other cultures and societies. Fairly common, it's how we get liberals.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Smith

[Links2k]

"Racism" comes down to people (any race) looking for someone else to blame for their lack of character, success, or work ethic. I reality most people groups tend to do better under oppression. The black community in America actually did far better under segregation than they are now. Every societal statistic backs that up. This country thrived and exploded in ingenuity and character every time we were doubted. Keep in mind just about every ethnic group that came to America experienced racism. It made America what it is.

Point is, it is difficult when you have everything to explain why you've done nothing with it. Racism, for a lot of people, is an easy emotional rationale for why they are cowards. These people use the brave character of a generation past like Paris Hilton uses her family name and fortune.

And you know this from being a black person during segregation?

[Links2k]

Yeah, that's true enough but the thing is that those families are mostly white. Cause most welfare goes to white folks and all. Visit the rural areas sometime and spend some time there. You'll discover a more than a few unwed mothers with kids waiting on the check.

That's the dirty little secret that you are not supposed to talk about.

[Smith]

And you know this from being a black person during segregation?

True. I'm not black so there's no way I can know. I'm the privileged white who is in denial.

However, I am a white guy from Arkansas, who grew up in Memphis, who's been around the world, has a black sister, a Hispanic sister-in-law, German brother-in-law, with a history and a philosophy degree, and came from a family that came to America as debtors, criminals, and sharecroppers through South Carolina. What in the world does that have to do with statistical realities in the historical context?

Again, segregation is bad, wrong, evil, and ignorant. My point has nothing to do with segregation. Rather it was to compare and contrast the black community during segregation and in it's current state to show that the so called "white privilege" theory has nothing to do with the current state of the decline of the black community as related to current perceptions of oppression. "White privilege" is a cop-out/excuse for this generations sub-mediocrity.

"White privilege" is a simple test. If it is the source of black oppression currently, then the black community would be better now then they were under overt "white privilege" ie segregation. It doesn't hold water.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Smith