Don't think this is how the "stand your ground law" works

[mcurrier]

The DA says "the person responsible for his death, Zimmerman..." She has already convicted him in her mind.

They STILL refer to Loughner and Maj. Hassan as "ALLEGED" shooters.

[QuietDan]

The DA says "the person responsible for his death, Zimmerman..." She has already convicted him in her mind.

They STILL refer to Loughner and Maj. Hassan as "ALLEGED" shooters.

No. Zimmerman has admitted to killing Martin.

[mcurrier]

Zimmerman turned himself in. Bail should be allowed as he has already proven that he is not a flight risk.

[mcurrier]

No. Zimmerman has admitted to killing Martin.

Have Loughner and Hassan not proudly admitted to killing people?

[QuietDan]

Have Loughner and Hassan not proudly admitted to killing people?

I'm thinking Hassan has pled "Not Guilty." Might want to check that.

I'm thinking Loughner is bug-nuts to the Nth degree. I'm thinking that they're going to determine he's insane, don't know if they have yet or not.

Different cases than this one.

[mcurrier]

I'm thinking Hassan has pled "Not Guilty." Might want to check that.

I'm thinking Loughner is bug-nuts to the Nth degree. I'm thinking that they're going to determine he's insane, don't know if they have yet or not.

Different cases than this one.

Yes, different cases, yet the news media for over a year on each of the two other cases continued to use the word "alleged" even though there were handfuls of eyewitnesses and even video, and both 'suspects' were taken at the scene with the proverbial smoking gun. No one in the media could bring themselves to say "the shooter", or "the killer" or "the murderer", it all had to be in p.c.-speak (alleged"). Yup. Different circumstances, different case. This one doesn't fit the liberal p.c. template. Bet they wish they had more thoroughly checked out Zimmerman before throwing out that "white" label, the hispanic vote might not be so kind to liberals in November.

[QuietDan]

Yes, different cases, yet the news media for over a year on each of the two other cases continued to use the word "alleged" even though there were handfuls of eyewitnesses and even video, and both 'suspects' were taken at the scene with the proverbial smoking gun. No one in the media could bring themselves to say "the shooter", or "the killer" or "the murderer", it all had to be in p.c.-speak (alleged"). Yup. Different circumstances, different case. This one doesn't fit the liberal p.c. template. Bet they wish they had more thoroughly checked out Zimmerman before throwing out that "white" label, the hispanic vote might not be so kind to liberals in November.

Agreed.

Six November 2012 is Coming. . . .

[East_TN_Patriot]

Like I said earlier in this thread, his actions did not fit the justifiable use of deadly force requirements as laid out in Florida law. People tried to say I was wrong, but again, you simply can't shoot someone just because they physically attack you. It takes deadly force to justify the use of deadly force and someone punching you in the face just doesn't qualify unless there are very unusual circumstances. I told some people last night that I knew a charge was coming when the prosecutor opted not to send the case to the grand jury. No prosecutor is going to take the heat of this case by filing a no information on their own.

For those curious, 2nd degree murder is under Florida State Statute 782.04(2):

(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Now, as many of you already know, it's not uncommon for a prosecutor to charge as high as the evidence will allow with the hope of negotiating a plea bargain. My prediction is that this case will end either in a plea deal or a trial with a conviction for manslaughter. Of course, he is innocent until proven guilty, but I still say that his actions were not legal based on the evidence we know through the media.

[mikegideon]

The defense won't file a motion to dismiss based on "stand your ground" until after he is arraigned. The judge can toss the whole thing at that point. Not saying he will, but it's part of the process.

[TMF]

I don't see SYG applying here. According to his statement to police Martin was on top of him leaving no options, so duty to retreat is moot. I don't think that they're charging him for not running away. Something tells me they have more evidence than what is available in the media. The Police recommended charges before the start of this circus, so I can only imagine what evidence has been collected at this point now that they've gone over this with a fine tooth comb.

[East_TN_Patriot]

The defense won't file a motion to dismiss based on "stand your ground" until after he is arraigned. The judge can toss the whole thing at that point. Not saying he will, but it's part of the process.

That is correct. This will be just the start of a long process of legal challenges, hearings, and depositions. Even if he is ultimately acquitted, does anyone think he got off without a hitch? This is something too many permit holders don't think about when they carry every day. If you shoot someone, you WILL end up in court at some point. That is exactly why it's important to know the law, keep a low profile, and don't even remotely think of reaching for your firearm except as an absolute last resort.

[JPR1959]

Stand your ground allows just that. You don't have to retreat from your attackers. I think having your head smashed into the sidewalk could eventually lead to your death. From all of the "leaked" reports, Zimmerman was attacked from behind. I think the charges are to try and keep a lid on the boiling pot of Sanford. Zimmerman probably won't go to trial within the next year, so this thing should die down by then.

[Lumber_Jack]

I just listened to the largess part of the press conference by the special prosecutor. I can tell you this, she is insuring that every one of Zimmermans constitutional rights are upheld through this process. The journalists repeatedly asked for her to comment on evidence and they(media) obviously have him in prison for life already. There were at least 2 seperates questions of where he was jailed, which she adamantly refused to answer. I personally was sickened by the medias blatantly loaded questions, but he refused them all, admirably.

An of course she has him convicted already, she's the prosecutor. He has to believe beyond a reasonable doubt that he can be convicted. That doesn't mean that a justifiable defense won't come up. She stated that explicitly.

[Guest Skeeter]

Stand your ground allows just that. You don't have to retreat from your attackers. I think having your head smashed into the sidewalk could eventually lead to your death. From all of the "leaked" reports, Zimmerman was attacked from behind. I think the charges are to try and keep a lid on the boiling pot of Sanford. Zimmerman probably won't go to trial within the next year, so this thing should die down by then.

.

My spin from all the disinformation that's been put out.

Zimmerman armed against the Neighborhood Watch Rules, Follows Perp after Police Dispatch tells him not to and puts himself into a situation for a confrontation. All not good.

Didn't that Rodney King thing drag out a long time? ( Just an excuse to Steal )

Edited April 12, 2012 by Skeeter

[Moped]

After being led around like a bull with a ring in his nose, I quit posting here. I go back and forth on this whole case. I've about quit reading about it. But my take on the last three days is...

A. The Prosecutor probably didn't take it to the Grand Jury because she didn't think she could win an indictment.

B. The Prosecutor is under a lot of pressure to prosecute this case from many different sources.

C. We do not know what really happened and we probably never will, based on what we have read and heard in the press.

D. My personal feeling is this needs to go to court.

E. Zimmerman is/was an idiot.

F. Al Sharpton still has a bigger ego than Don King had hair.

E. I'd say the odds are in Zimmerman's favor, unless there is evidence we haven't seen (which is a total turnaround from what I believed when I last posted here) or his Lawyers are complete morons.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Moped

[RobertNashville]

I find it odd and troubling that one prosecutor said he didn't have enough evidence to bring any charges yet another charges Murder 2. It seems to me that if there is enough evidence to convict on Murder 2 there was certainly enough to bring charges of something before now.

At lest, perhaps, this will go to trial and we'll get a chance to see the actual evidence rather than what the idiot medial has manufactured and called evidence.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Curious, isn't it? She may have had to bring it to trial to get it over with to appease the angry masses. I'll bet there

is an acquittal coming down the pike, or charges being thrown out by the judge. Something like that. For one DA

to not charge and this one to charge, I'd really love to know what changed things. If it goes to a jury, he should be

acquitted if his lawyer is any good.

[Guest Gwith40]

I will ask the same question I asked last week: Do you charge a person simply to avoid a riot? I have my suspicions. Unless there is a serious amount of evidence we have not seen, this is a total overcharge. I am aware that prosecutors often overcharge in the hopes of a lessor conviction or plea. Well, at least Sanford isn't burning at this point. It will be interesting to see what happens. If this case goes to trial and Zimmerman is aquitted, then the powers that be have simply postponed the hell that is coming.

[QuietDan]

Mollifying the mob of peasants with torches and pitchforks that formed for this case will only postpone the inevitable conflicts. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will just go trolling for another case to inflame the masses. I'm thinking there is a real chance for an ugly ugly Spring Summer and Fall. If at least one metropolitan city center does not burn in riots ala the recent London riots, I will be very surprised. Keep your powder dry and your Eyes -- Eyes Open.

[Moped]

Did you all see that Mayor Michael Bloomberg has now gotten into the act. He called a press conference yesterday to push for repeal of all SYG Legislation across the country. Never misses a chance to get his name in the limelight does he.

[TMF]

Just because the first DA chose not to charge Zimmerman means nothing. It happens all the time. Cops say "charge this guy", DA says "not enough evidence", police gather more evidence. In this case it went a little different, but if it resulted in the collection of more evidence that points toward a crime then isn't that good? Don't we want people who commit crimes to be prosecuted? I don't care how wrong the media or Al Sharpton is, it doesn't excuse someone illegally killing another person and getting away with it. 2nd degree murder..... me thinks there is more evidence than we have available to us.

[mikegideon]

Did you all see that Mayor Michael Bloomberg has now gotten into the act. He called a press conference yesterday to push for repeal of all SYG Legislation across the country. Never misses a chance to get his name in the limelight does he.

Bloomberg is a zit.

[mikegideon]

Just because the first DA chose not to charge Zimmerman means nothing. It happens all the time. Cops say "charge this guy", DA says "not enough evidence", police gather more evidence. In this case it went a little different, but if it resulted in the collection of more evidence that points toward a crime then isn't that good? Don't we want people who commit crimes to be prosecuted? I don't care how wrong the media or Al Sharpton is, it doesn't excuse someone illegally killing another person and getting away with it. 2nd degree murder..... me thinks there is more evidence than we have available to us.

I think (hope) some fairness just entered the picture. Nobody wants Zimmerman to get away with murder. It's ALL gonna come out now. I'm sure we'll quarterback the whole thing

[Guest RobThatsMe]

I will ask the same question I asked last week: Do you charge a person simply to avoid a riot? I have my suspicions. Unless there is a serious amount of evidence we have not seen, this is a total overcharge. I am aware that prosecutors often overcharge in the hopes of a lessor conviction or plea. Well, at least Sanford isn't burning at this point. It will be interesting to see what happens. If this case goes to trial and Zimmerman is aquitted, then the powers that be have simply postponed the hell that is coming.

Well, charging him does get the monkey off of their back. If they didn't the mobs would be after them.

Now it is up to the court to make the right call based on presented evidence.

If he was truly within his legal rights he should be equited.

JMHO

Rob

[BryanP]

If he does get acquitted based on SYG I expect we'll have a fight on our hands to keep No Duty To Retreat type laws from being repealed. Great, just what we needed.