Don't think this is how the "stand your ground law" works

[Mark@Sea]

No Uniform, how about an official Neighborhood Watch SUV?

[Erik88]

The Orlando Sentinel is still running 3-4 stories a day about this case.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-trayvon-martin-top-10-list-beth-kassab-040312-20120402_1_murder-charge-hoodie-fake-photos

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-trayvon-martin-qa3-20120402_1_civil-rights-gated-community-robert-zimmerman

[mikegideon]

No Uniform, how about an official Neighborhood Watch SUV?

Gonna be one helluva ammo bill.

[RobertNashville]

Gonna be one helluva ammo bill.

I've been thinking about a deuce and a half after I saw a preper family (last week on Natgeo) who bought one and it looked really cool) - The thing can run on almost anything and is big enough that no one is going to mess with you; even with it just sitting in the driveway.

I don't know though...I think the three guns may be just a little bit over the top.

Edited April 3, 2012 by RobertNashville

[RobertNashville]

The Orlando Sentinel is still running 3-4 stories a day about this case.

http://articles.orla...die-fake-photos

http://articles.orla...obert-zimmerman

Of course, there isn't anything else in the world happening plus you've got a lot of people out there who think that everything can be solved in an hour (40 minutes once you deduct for commercials)

[Mark@Sea]

I actually own a fully restored M37. I had at one point given serious thought to putting a pedestal mounted .30 in the back. MUCH cheaper to operate than an M2.

The M37 will go everywhere the deuce and a half will go, and a few places the deuce won't.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I know it is very difficult to collect on suing a network but given the level of dishonesty by the media in this case, I have to wonder: If Zimmerman is not charged or is not convicted: What are his chances at winning a few lawsuits?

Richard Jewell won a $500,000 settlement against NBC when they portrayed him as the bomber in Atlanta.

I didn't see what he got out of the Atlanta Constipation. I imagine if Zimmerman is no-billed or found not guilty,

he has a good one with the big three network liars, at least.

[Oh Shoot]

Richard Jewell won a $500,000 settlement against NBC when they portrayed him as the bomber in Atlanta.

I didn't see what he got out of the Atlanta Constipation. I imagine if Zimmerman is no-billed or found not guilty,

he has a good one with the big three network liars, at least.

Hope so. That NBC edit of the 911 call was absolutely egregious. Completely took statement where Zim merely answered dispatcher's question of "white, hispanic, or black" and made it into a "by the way, I'm a racist" statement.

- OS

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The last thing it could have been was the news. An agenda.

and just because it is being looked in to, won't keep it from being

the subject of a hefty lawsuit, I'd imagine

Edited April 3, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[Guest lostpass]

Yeah but NBC will spend less in the lawsuit than they made off the coverage. If your agenda makes money everything is golden!

[Guest Lester Weevils]

No uniforms or hats (nor badges or nightsticks).

What we have done is gotten together for a few meetings and had some community events so that people have a chance to get to know each other.

Another effective thing we all try to do is that when we see someone driving by (especially someone we don't recognize) we try to make contact and wave/say "hello"...not only is it a friendly gesture but it also let's the person we see know that he/her has been seen (just in case that person wold rather not be seen if you know what I mean).

Thanks for the explanations, Robert

Wasn't making fun or being critical. In fact, Z was wearing a red jacket, so maybe Z was either officially or non-officially emulating Guardian Angel attire?

Maybe you can do about anything you can get away with on private property like an apt complex, gated or not? Was trying to think about it in context of my little neighborhood. Was thinking if an organization wanted to do a little more than merely watching from yer own property-- If the plan goes so far as to sometimes render assistance in case of emergency-- A fella might at some point find himself trying to "assist" on somebody else's property-- My neighbors are not insane hotheads but it would be a shame to be trying to help a neighbor and the neighbor accidentally shoots me for my trouble.

I suppose the problem with any kind of hat, badge, armband or even a full-fledged tactical clown suit with the size 19 shoes-- If I was a bad guy and wanted to sneak around causing havoc, it would be a real obvious idea to dress up identical to the neighborhood watch. But seriously it would be desirable to have a friend-foe ID method, unless I know every single neighbor, and every neighbor knows me? Also assuming that all the neighbors have good enough eyesight to recognize me in the dark.

I'm the self appointed Admiral of my neighborhood watch. I have a uniform that sort of looks like the one that Napoleon Bonaparte wore. I stand on my deck and scan the horizon for pirates and others who wish to do me harm. I don't actually pursue them, I simply call in the Marines....

I don't necessarily demand stratospheric rank such as Neighborhood Watch Pharoah or Neighborhood Watch Defender of the Realm. It is negotiable. I don't even necessarily demand Neighborhood Watch Emperor or Neighborhood Watch Grand Inquisitor. But if I can't at least be Neighborhood Watch Supreme Commander, ain't gonna play!

Back in early 1970's lived in a not-terribly-cheezy three room apt in North Chatt before the yuppie invasion. The place still had a little wallpaper and at least half of the ceiling plaster. My street was quiet, full of old people except me. I could open the window and sit on the roof and watch the streets on both sides of mine On one side were black folk who would occasionally get rowdy, and the street on the other side was populated by rednecks who had interesting public disputes in their yards and their street. So then got a chance to rent a pretty nice little house cheap in East Chattanooga. Hadn't been in Chatt very long and didn't know anything about the town.

Didn't have any problems with the neighbors and they were nice enough, but then we had some breakins that must have been kids. They would break in when people were asleep and didn't steal anything. Most folks including me didn't have much to steal. The idiots would climb in a window, gather up clothes & random property, then strew it around on the victim's yards. Happened to me and some other neighbors.

So then a neighbor came over wanting my help catching the crooks. He was waving around a .38 snub, describing how all the neighborhood men are gonna hide in the shrubbery at night and apprehend whoever is doing it. I politely turned him down and he didn't get mad. From then on I didn't go walking around at night until we could find another house to rent in another part of town. Didn't want to accidentally become a target for some neighbor hiding in the shrubbery.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Guest Gwith40]

Allright guys,

More information on the voice "experts" hired by the Orlando Sentinel. It really concerns me to think that these guys have testified in a court of law. This could wind up being a very important part of this case, in a lot of ways. The Sentinel really looks quite incompetent in this matter. What could be the excuse? It has to be one or the other....I didn't fully vet my sources or I knew these guys were questionable but ran the story anyway.

http://www.wagist.com/

[Mr. Brooks]

Not really surprised about these so called experts. IIRC Martin's own father said that it wasn't him screaming for help. I assume he would know better then some guys who've never even heard TM's voice.

[QuietDan]

Sounds like the Orlando Sentinel went "expert shopping" until they had one with the answer they wanted to hear.

Not that THAT ever happens. There are enough whores out there that sooner or later you'll find one that does it the way you like. Testify, that is.

[Guest Gwith40]

Not too long ago, we had a gang "expert" here that ran into some trouble. An attorney in one of the cases she testifed in did a bit of research. It turned out that she really wasn't much of an expert on anything. She had inflated her background and education, thereby calling into question numerous cases she was involved in. It was a real egg on the face moment.

If I am sitting on a jury and several "experts" come in to testify, there is one overarching question on my mind: Would this person say this without getting paid for it? I realize that professional time comes at a cost but there has to be some kind of accountibility with paid testimony.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Gwith40

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Interesting link with a lot to digest.

[CQB Elite]

My choice for a neighborhood watch patrol vehicle!

[Mark@Sea]

Here is another tidbit. I've read on several sites now that Trayvons family hired a PR firm to smear Zimmerman - the source for much of the mis-information.

[CQB Elite]

Here is another tidbit. I've read on several sites now that Trayvons family hired a PR firm to smear Zimmerman - the source for much of the mis-information.

Its their attorney that is fueling this. He also represented the family of Martin Lee Anderson who died in 2006 while incarcerated at the Bay County Sheriff's Office Boot Camp down in Florida. The attorney specializes in civil rights suits.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/04/02/Trayvon-Martin-Case-Repeats-2006-Playbook-for-Martin-Lee-Anderson

[QuietDan]

Welcome to the show!

We are all being played.

It's making a pair of lawyers RICH.

One of the links to a Florida newspaper that expands upon Mark@Sea's and EB-SF's discoveries:

Attorneys use bootcamp playbook to press Trayvon Martin case

By Marc Caputo, Miami Herald

Mar 23, 2012

A dead black teenager in a small town. Charges of a cover-up. A national media spotlight. A public outcry. State and federal investigations follow.

This isn't just the story of Trayvon Martin's death on Feb. 26 in Sanford. It happened before, in 2006, when Martin Lee Anderson died after he was beaten at a Panhandle boot camp.

In both cases, the same man has been behind the scenes and in front of the cameras: Ben Crump, a partner in the emerging powerhouse black-owned Tallahassee law firm of Parks & Crump.

Crump seems to be everywhere. He'll either be burning out cell phone batteries exchanging info with reporters, shouting to a protest crowd through a megaphone or gently guiding his aggrieved clients through a nationally televised interview to make sure the same message gets through.

"It's about justice," says Crump, 42. "Too many times, whether it's Martin's case or Trayvon's, our society looks on the death of black boys like they're throwaways. And we're not going to let them get away with it."

Crump doesn't do it alone. His partner, Daryl Parks, is just as apt as Crump in the courtroom or in handling the news media.

Together, the two lawyers have handled Trayvon's case like Martin's, with one big difference: They learned their lesson six years ago in the boot-camp case.

In Trayvon's case, they alerted the news media more quickly. They phoned the Rev. Al Sharpton almost instantly, and organized marches with local civil-rights activists. They also started pressing for federal involvement and alleging a cover-up from the get-go.

The results: The Sanford police chief received a no-confidence vote and stepped down temporarily. The prosecutor stepped aside to make way for a special prosecutor. The Justice Department and the FBI have joined the investigation. Celebrities from Cher to Donald Trump have gotten behind Trayvon's case. And thousands have marched and protested across the nation.

Even President Barack Obama weighed in Friday on what he called a "tragedy."

"You gain some experience," said Parks, who has had a more behind-the-scenes role in the two cases as a matter of coincidence. "You brainstorm. You use what works and you don't stop."

Race is central to their practice — but that's because racism is so central to the black experience in Florida. Parks, 42, said he took one case — involving a Lakeland police officer's shooting of the black father of a child driven without a baby seat — because he was appalled by an officer's statement that "You've got to control them."

Said Parks: "Who the hell is 'them?' I had a black juror and I made sure she heard that."

Parks & Crump won the case. Now they're fighting in the Legislature to get the victim compensated.

The two graduated together from Florida State University law school in 1995, opened their firm the following year and began taking on profitable personal-injury and medical malpractice cases.

Sandy D'Alemberte, a past American Bar Association president and the former head and law school dean of FSU, knows the duo well and recalls that, even in college, the two had a knack for politics, organizing and supporting the black community.

"You have some high-profile people — including African-Americans — who are willing to rip off their clients. That's not Daryl and Ben," D'Alemberte said. "They're real philanthropists … they're wholesome. Ben could have been a preacher with the way he talks."

They hail from humble small towns. Parks, 43, grew up in Lake Hamilton, a town with no stoplights near Haines City in Polk County.

Crump came from Lumberton, N.C. In his teens, his family moved to Broward County.

With a thick Carolina accent and loose-fitting suits, Crump plays up his country roots.

"That was my grandma's lawyer, Matlock," Crump says of the popular 1980s television show. "She would say: 'You got to be like Matlock. You don't got to get city-slick with that fancy education. People believe country lawyers.' "

Parks & Crump also take on the far less-profitable business of civil-rights cases out of what they say is a duty to their community.

Though civil-rights cases pay less than the medical-malpractice cases in the short-term, the long-term payoff has been undeniable for the firm. Today, African-Americans who have a tough case frequently call Parks & Crump first. That reputation was born in 2006 after the lawyers took on the case of Martin Lee Anderson.

The 14-year-old collapsed at a Panama City boot camp on Jan. 5, 2006.

The guards surrounded him. They beat him, figured he was faking it. Martin died. The area medical examiner said the child died of sickle-cell trait, a rare disorder that rarely results in death.

Martin's parents took the case to two area lawyers. They declined to take the case. They then went to Parks & Crump.

Soon, word of a videotape of Martin's last moments surfaced.

State lawmakers pushed for the tape's release along with the Miami Herald and Crump. The boot camp, founded by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement chief when he was Bay County's sheriff, refused. At the same time, The Herald uncovered correspondence between the FDLE chief, Guy Tunnell, and Bay Sheriff Frank McKeithen that suggested the state police probe wouldn't be impartial. Parks and Crump called for the feds to come in.

The tape was soon released. Tunnell later resigned over inappropriate comments he made. The guards and a nurse were criminally charged almost 12 months after Martin's death. They were tried by a special prosecution team led by future Attorney General Pam Bondi. The guards and a nurse were acquitted at trial, in part because there was not enough evidence to prove they maliciously intended to harm Martin.

But, thanks to the involvement of then-Attorney General Charlie Crist, the Legislature compensated Martin's family $4.8 million for his death. The Bay sheriff's office separately settled for $2.4 million.

The firm's cases are a parade of horribles: a 2-year-old who died after being left in a day care van; a former Boston Red Sox ball boy molested by a club manager; a black motorist shot dead by a state trooper; a group of poor people swindled by a land developer.

The work has been profitable. Crump was inducted three years ago into the Multi-Million Dollar Advocacy Forum for winning more than 20 verdicts and settlements of $1 million or more each.

"My biggest regret is my biggest victory: Martin's case," Crump said.

"His family got something, but I will go to my grave feeling the loss of trust in the system. We saw a little black boy die at the hands of adults who got away."

Crump says he wants to make sure it doesn't happen again with Trayvon's case.

Early on, Crump pushed for the release of 911 tapes in Trayvon's case, which were recently made public and ultimately cast some doubt on shooter George Zimmerman's claim that he was attacked by Trayvon.

Zimmerman has yet to be arrested or charged, prompting Crump, Parks and Sharpton to echo the same calls for arrests that they made in Martin's case.

"There is no law firm like Parks & Crump," Sharpton, now an MSNBC host, said. "No one has the credibility like Ben. He called me and we gave this national attention. If it was left locally, this case could have been stuffed in a drawer."

Some lawyers shy away from the cameras. Crump says he needs them.

"In court, you have the jury," Crump says. "Our job is to get the case to a jury. We need to fight first in the court of public opinion. The jury is the American people."

http://www.tampabay....in-case/1221545

Edited April 4, 2012 by QuietDan

[CQB Elite]

Last week I read an article online via the Kansas City news. In the story Crump stated that he learned his lesson in the Anderson case because he did not get the media involved early enough. That right there tells more than a million words.

[RobertNashville]

And all this information coming out is precisely why I refused to rush to judgment about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence - the budget deficit we face in this country is not the only one we have; we also have a deficit of rational thought.

Zimmerman may well be guilty or he may also be innocent but we won't find out from the press; especially what passes for "press" these days.

[QuietDan]

Last week I read an article online via the Kansas City news. In the story Crump stated that he learned his lesson in the Anderson case because he did not get the media involved early enough. That right there tells more than a million words.

Thanks for digging. A real eye-opener. I think we all like to know when we're being played.

It's entirely possible now that there will be no trial at all. The State Attorney on the case just needs to run out the clock with the investigation. If the investigation takes a certain amount of time, the ambulance chasing/race-baiting lawyer will not be able to keep the circus going. The public will become educated, or lose interest, or both.

Games go a little differently when you have the other team's play-book.

Edited April 4, 2012 by QuietDan

[CQB Elite]

You can rest assured that Crump will file a civil suit against Zimmerman (and Sanford PD and the State Attorney and the State of FL) for violation of T's rights. For heavens sake he got Gov. Charlie Crist to sign a dad-gum $1 Million check made out to Martin Lee Anderson's parents for wrongful death and the kid died of sickle-cell trait!

The more people get worked up over this and the more FREE press that Crump gets, the better. They might need a Publisher's Clearing House sized check just to hold all the zeros for the settlement....

But I still imagine that there are some who still believe Z is a child murdering racists and that all others want Z to be innocent so that we can murder people that scare us.....

[Erik88]

I noticed a certain person in this thread has suddenly got quiet.......strange timing.