Don't think this is how the "stand your ground law" works

[RobertNashville]

I think OJ killed his wife, Casey Anthony killed her child, Michael Jackson raped little boys, and Josh Powell killed his wife. I can say that since I'm not on a jury and I'm not a judge. It is unreasonable to think that most people don't reserve judgement for those involved in such incidents where guilt is likely. If I had to be on a jury I wouldn't be so quick to judge, but I'm not. So I think this walking wag-bag is guilty as sin. If you disagree then great. If you think I shouldn't form my opinions you can respectfully piss off.

You can hold any opinion you want but you are the one who seems bent out of shape that I don't happen to share yours. I have a low tolerance for armchair quarterbacking even though everyone, including me, is guilty of it...I have an even lower tolerance of armchair quarterbacking that seems to demand I agree with the quarterback's assessment. Maybe that's not what you intended but that's how it came across.

I'm glad you have it all figured out and I'll admit, it sounds bad for the shooter in this case but I've been around long enough to know that getting the whole truth from the media is VERY RARE and those who make up their minds about anything based on what the media has to say about it; even allege "facts" from other sources, will come to the wrong opinion a hell of lot more often than the come to the right opinion.

I don't know who was in the right here...the one thing I DO know is that I don't know enough to know who is was in the right.

Isn't that why we have trials?

Edited March 21, 2012 by RobertNashville

[TMF]

Have I ever said this guy doesn't deserve a trial? Sure he does, but I won't be on the jury and I think he's guilty. I'm not getting bent out of shape by anything other than you saying I shouldn't be able to judge this guy; well I ain't. My opinion has no legal bearing. If you want to disagree good for you, but don't get pissy about me HAVING an opinion in the first place.

The facts are clear enough that I think he's guilty. Read the transcripts of his own words. I did. It wasn't until then that formed my opinion.

[Erik88]

This has been plaster all over the news down there. The Orlando Sentinel runs a different story on it every single day. I'd hate to be Zimmerman right now, he really screwed up on this one IMO. As mentioned before, no one knows what really happened except for Zimmerman.

[SonnyCrockett]

He sounds like a guy you wanna slap at the shopping mall for giving you a hard time for

for spitting your gum out or something....wannabe .....The more I dig into the zimmerman profile the more it shows he is a menace ,a complainer,a whiner and for us,a bad CCW holder.......He calls the cops if your radio is too loud kinda guy......

The public outrage is gonna get him jail time and I think it sounds deserving....The kid was just being a kid

but he was black and it was night time,zimmerman did not want to wait for a cop so he tracked the kid

and that is a not self defense.......Second or third degree murder is what it is

Edited March 21, 2012 by SonnyCrockett

[K191145]

Zimmerman had been arrested before, but not charged with resisting arrest and assualt on a police officer, maybe there should be an investigation on just who's related to Zimmerman. If you assualt a cop it's hard to get out of that unless you have some pull somewhere I would think. Anyway, this in no way sounds like a justifiable self defense claim, more and more it sounds like Zimmerman is a pathitic moron wannabe Rambo who is now a murderer. He needs to be charged and the P.D. and D.A. needs to be investigated for coverups and or incompetence.

[TMF]

He needs to be charged and the P.D. and D.A. needs to be investigated for coverups and or incompetence.

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt until I found out that they never bothered to interview the young man's girlfriend who was on the phone with him during the confrontation. That makes her a very important witness. Now that the feds are involved her statement is relevant. It doesn't take a Columbo to determine that a statement from her would be pivotal in the investigation.

[K191145]

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt until I found out that they never bothered to interview the young man's girlfriend who was on the phone with him during the confrontation. That makes her a very important witness. Now that the feds are involved her statement is relevant. It doesn't take a Columbo to determine that a statement from her would be pivotal in the investigation.

There's something very wrong in this whole mess, this maybe one of the few times i'm glad the feds are getting involved. It's really starting to smell like some kind of coverup. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/outrage-builds-over-trayvon-martin-shooting-release-police-200335584.html

Martin's father has said that police initially told him they didn't charge Zimmerman because he studied criminal justice and had a squeaky clean record. (In fact, Zimmerman was charged in 2005 with battery on a law enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence—the charges were later dropped.)

Police at the scene also didn't test Zimmerman for alcohol or drugs, although it's considered standard procedure in a homicide investigation to do so. And an eyewitness at the scene says she told cops that Martin had been calling for help, but that an officer "corrected" her to say that it was Zimmerman who was calling for help.

Edited March 21, 2012 by K191145

[Guest peacexxl]

This has been plaster all over the news down there. The Orlando Sentinel runs a different story on it every single day. I'd hate to be Zimmerman right now, he really screwed up on this one IMO. As mentioned before, no one knows what really happened except for Zimmerman.

agreed, but I think I would rather be Zimmerman than Trayvon Martin.

[Links2k]

I gave a brief interview this afternoon on the Memphis Fox station about this case, it'll be on tonight at 10. We talked about deadly force laws and what might happen in this situation under Tennessee law. I think dude will get indicted. Like someone said, he accosted the kid, kid fought back, dude shot him. That's just not self defense. You can't seek the threat out then claim you were in fear for your life.

I saw your interview. Lead story. Good job.

[mikegideon]

I hope this all comes to light. Libs are already attacking the "stand your ground" law. The blame needs to go where it belongs, not on a law that's necessary for self defense.

[Guest profgunner]

Using deadly force against another human being is something I hope I never have to do. That said, I will do so in defense of my life or my family. Identifying the exact point at which deadly force is justified is not always easy, I would think. When I decided to carry a weapon, I promised myself I would always avoid confrontation if possible. I would rather give someone my wallet or my car than stop them from doing so with a bullet. Likewise, I would prefer to escape, by running like h*ll, from someone wielding a knife. These are my personal feelings. Others may have different thoughts on this, and I am not out to judge. I do know, however, that in Tennessee (not sure about Florida) the use of deadly force (unless you are in your home) is allowed if, and ONLY if, two criteria are met. The first is intent. The person(s) against whom the force is used must intend to kill you or do you serious bodily harm. This is not always easy to prove. The second is means. The person(s) must have the means to carry out their intent. A guy threatening you from the other side of the street with a baseball bat surely intends to hurt you, but he does not have the means. That of course changes when he crosses the street to your side. Personally, I would run like the devil before he made it across to my side of the street. I'm too old to worry about my pride. It is also important to remember that if by firing your weapon, even when you are within your legal rights to do so, you injure a non-participant you can be held liable for civil damages. So, at least for me, shooting someone ranks at the very bottom of the list of my options. But it is an option, nonetheless. And if someone tries to march me into the walk-in cooler of my local Tiger Mart I will probably play that card.

Well, the news reports and the 911 tapes suggest to me that the shooter may have made a very bad decision by following that kid. My guess is that if he had to do it over again, he would wait on the police. Just my two cents.

-Steve

Edited March 21, 2012 by profgunner

[raydog1]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57401619-504083/author-of-stand-your-ground-law-george-zimmerman-should-probably-be-arrested-for-killing-trayvon-martin/

The authors of Florida's controversial "stand your ground" self-defense law say George Zimmerman should probably be arrested for shooting Trayvon Martin, reports the Miami Herald.

"He has no protection under my law," former Sen. Durell Peaden told the newspaper.

It is the fact that Zimmerman ignored the 911 operator's advice not to follow Martin that former Sen. Peaden says disqualifies him from claiming self-defense under the law.

"The guy lost his defense right then," Peaden told the Miami Herald. "When he said 'I'm following him,' he lost his defense."

[Guest HvyMtl]

IMHO, this will not end well for Zimmerman, and the PD that "investigated," as eye witness reports are now coming out, including supposed reports of witness tampering by the PD.

Again, this is all heresay, and second hand. We need to wait and see what happens.

I like the Legislator explaining the law does not apply.

I do not like what I see and am hearing about the situation.

Innocent until proven guilty, is the correct stance.

And have you seen the kid's family lawyer? Smart AND pretty? Rare combination, no matter the sex.

[East_TN_Patriot]

Here is a decent article on the incident. Assuming these details are accurate, I wouldn't be surprised to see a manslaughter charge in someone's future. There will very likely be a through investigation and a grand jury hearing before any formal charges come out.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/294006/standing-your-ground-and-vigilantism-robert-verbruggen

[SHbicycle]

A lot of talk is going on about the 911 operator telling Zimmerman not to follow. I can tell you even if someone is breaking into your house with a baseball bat screaming "I'm going to kill you" the 911 operator will tell you not to confront them and to hide in a closet. The guy saw a stranger in his neighborhood and stopped him to see what he was doing then the gay attacks him. Zimmerman did not chase him down and shoot him he waited till he was on his back getting hit in the face before he shot him.

He was a neighborhood watch captain in a high crime neighborhood so I would think he would call 911 a lot.

[TMF]

A lot of talk is going on about the 911 operator telling Zimmerman not to follow. I can tell you even if someone is breaking into your house with a baseball bat screaming "I'm going to kill you" the 911 operator will tell you not to confront them and to hide in a closet. The guy saw a stranger in his neighborhood and stopped him to see what he was doing then the gay attacks him. Zimmerman did not chase him down and shoot him he waited till he was on his back getting hit in the face before he shot him.

He was a neighborhood watch captain in a high crime neighborhood so I would think he would call 911 a lot.

If someone follows me for blocks and then suddenly gets out of their car to confront me on what I'm doing I'm going to tell them to f*ck off. If that person continues I'm going to defend myself. How does that give them the right to shoot me?

Zimmerman made his intent clear on the call. It turns out the young man was evading him because he thought he was being stalked (gee he was right according to Zimmerman's own recorded conversation).

If someone decides to stalk me and then get physical I'm gonna beat the sh*t out of them. How does that justify him shooting? I guess I should just go around harassing people until someone puts up a fight, then shoot them because I'm getting my a$$ kicked. You have to be kidding me!!!!!!

Edited March 22, 2012 by TMF 18B

[SHbicycle]

That's a good way to keep a situation calm start off being rude and confrontational you should think that through a little more.

[Oh Shoot]

Sounds more and more like Zimmerman has a protector somewhere in the local LEA. If he indeed does get indicted for something, I'd be surprised if another head doesn't roll.

- OS

[dralarms]

I though I heard on the news yesterday that the FBI was investigating.

[tnhawk]

Apparently Zimmerman was a frequent caller to 911. 50 times in 2011? This guy had issues. Sounds like he was pursuing, which is a hell of a lot different than "stand your ground".

It doesn't appear that 911 should have been called. Before Zimmerman escallated the situation, there was no emergency.

[East_TN_Patriot]

I though I heard on the news yesterday that the FBI was investigating.

Yes, the Feds are investigating to see if this qualifies as a hate crime and it seems as if I heard they are looking at the police department related to information that at least one officer has been involved in unethical or illegal conduct during the investigation.

Edited March 22, 2012 by East_TN_Patriot

[TMF]

That's a good way to keep a situation calm start off being rude and confrontational you should think that through a little more.

I'm sorry, but if someone is harassing me I don't have to be polite, especially if that person has been stalking me for blocks. Too bad the kid wasn't old enough to carry a gun to protect himself from racist neighborhood watch nazis or else this story might have had a happy ending; a citizen defending themselves from an armed aggressor. Isn't that why we carry to be able to defend ourselves so we may continue to live?

You don't get to start a fight with someone then shoot them when they fight back, which is what your posts suggests.

The guy saw a stranger in his neighborhood and stopped him to see what he was doing then the gay attacks him. Zimmerman did not chase him down and shoot him he waited till he was on his back getting hit in the face before he shot him.

And Zimmerman did chase him down; listen to the 911 call. He got out of his vehicle.

I see strangers in my neighborhood all the time. I guess according to your logic I should start confronting them... it would be a good opportunity to see how well my .45 hydroshocks work. Only a matter of time before one of them is provoked enough to justify me shooting them, right?

Edited March 22, 2012 by TMF 18B

[TMF]

I though I heard on the news yesterday that the FBI was investigating.

Yep. The only thing I hope doesn't happen is the whole "hate crime" approach which is the route they take in cases like this. I think Zimmerman has every right to be a racist, but that shouldn't be a crime, only motive for initiating the confrontation.

[QuietDan]

Apparently Zimmerman was a frequent caller to 911. 50 times in 2011? This guy had issues. Sounds like he was pursuing, which is a hell of a lot different than "stand your ground".

Sounds like he might have an expanded vision of the ground he was 'standing your ground' on. Aggressive neighborhood watch in a gated community of 250 homes. Did he consider the entire gated community 'his ground'?

I'm thinking he's not a choir boy, and neither is his victim. However, I also absolutely detest the authorities coming back after him because of political pressure. Arrests, charges, indictments, convictions must be fact based and worked through a court of law, NOT the court of public opinion backed up with race-tinged mobs.

This poor sucker is probably going to get some sort of Eric Holder 'Justice" Department federal civil rights charge, in a racially-charged, media-fueled circus.

[TMF]

Well normally I would agree with you that authorities shouldn't make arrests based on sensationalized pressure from the press, but I think in this case it was good they got the word out. The Sanford PD mishandled this case as is evident by the fact they never even interviewed a witness who was on the phone with Trevon during the chase and the confrontation. Only now that the Feds are involved is she being interviewed.