Don't think this is how the "stand your ground law" works

[TMF]

I don't know did you? But you WOULD like to see people convicted on your opinion. These are just some of the earliest comment.

If you look at those posts you'll see that I am not a representative of the government nor do people refer to me as "your Honor". I'm entitled to my opinion and I welcome a debate that challenges that opinion, but what I don't welcome are personal attacks on my opinion or someone saying that I shouldn't have an opinion. It's childish.

[CQB Elite]

I still don't understand why Martin did not call 911 himself. And or why he did not just run off or maybe stand his ground and identify what he was doing. Of course this all assumes he was not up to no good.

My prediction is no conviction against zimmerman and Martin's family will win big in a civil suit.

There's a certain element in our society that wants nothing to do with the police what-so-ever. That element doesn't call 911.

I'd always get a little chuckle when I'd respond to a call to someone needing the police and then find out they have an outstanding arrest warrant on them. I'd always finish with their call and then say, "Oh, by the way......".

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I still don't understand why Martin did not call 911 himself. And or why he did not just run off or maybe stand his ground and identify what he was doing. Of course this all assumes he was not up to no good.

Yep. Its hard to be a mind-reader. It is similarly difficult to understand why Z, if he thought M was dangerous enough to call 911 on, would get out of the truck rather than wait on the popo? Guess it was no big deal in his community to get out of the truck and go snooping around on a neighbor's yard. Maybe that would be safe for me to do in my neighborhood but then again maybe not. I wouldn't be parking and snooping around in vicinity of a neighbor's yard after dark, unless I first call em or first thing go up to their front door and and tell em I'm there.

[TMF]

He may not have been certain enough that he was being followed.

A few years ago I was coming home from work when I got to a 4 way stop about a mile from my house. There was a car to the left of me that was already at his stop sign, but he was yapping away on his cell phone and just looking at me. I came to a stop and he still didn't move so I went ahead and made my right turn. No sooner did I make that turn the guy was on my bumper and I could see him gesturing wildly in my mirror. I continued home with this guy glued to my bumper. I didn't feel the need to call the police I figured he'd get over it and pass me or something. He stayed with me all the way to my street before doing a 180 and driving off. I wouldn't have known for sure he was following me until I got to my house, and by then it would have been too late to call the cops; I would have been forced to deal with the threat upon being confronted, but I'm not going to call the cops every time a whacko starts riding my bumper, ya know? Martin may not have been certain at first that he was being followed, but his hackles were probably up.

[Guest Gwith40]

I would agree that I would be exceptionally cautious about roaming around in someones yard in my neighborhood. However, consider that the area this event occured in is laid out a bit differently. Also remember that Z told the police that M was beating his head on the concrete. The link has a good map of the area. It almost looks like open area rowhouses.

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

[Smith]

If you look at those posts you'll see that I am not a representative of the government nor do people refer to me as "your Honor". I'm entitled to my opinion and I welcome a debate that challenges that opinion, but what I don't welcome are personal attacks on my opinion or someone saying that I shouldn't have an opinion. It's childish.

Come on, no one said you can't have an opinion, but when you are called out on that opinion for contradictions, inconsistency, error, or just a different point of view you can't then claim it's personal. BTW - agents of the government and Judges do not convict anyone in this country. It is the opinion of a jury of peers (citizens) who make that decision based on evidence. So, yes opinion does matter. The damnation's, condemnations, and praises ones makes have an influence. The only opinions that you can't be held accountable for are the ones not spoken.

[TMF]

Come on, no one said you can't have an opinion, but when you are called out on that opinion for contradictions, inconsistency, error, or just a different point of view you can't then claim it's personal. BTW - agents of the government and Judges do not convict anyone in this country. It is the opinion of a jury of peers (citizens) who make that decision based on evidence. So, yes opinion does matter. The damnation's, condemnations, and praises ones makes have an influence. The only opinions that you can't be held accountable for are the ones not spoken.

I'm no longer a FL resident so I'm not worried about sitting on a jury in this case.

Regarding the personal attacks, the passive manner in which it is going on is pretty transparent. I'm not trying to debate anything that's come out as "evidence" other than the original transcript of Zimmerman's call. Everything else is suspect. My life experience and sense tell me that he instigated the incident. If I had to bet 100 bucks one way or the other that is what I would bet on. That's all.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I won't go into personal attacks. I would rather say others disagree with you, TMF. So what?

I'd also rather disagree with you. So what? I doubt anyone is keeping score, as if it mattered.

We need to grab a cup of coffee sometime, if you're not in ugly, that is.

Edited April 4, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[mikegideon]

TMF, Just so you're not surprized when you meet 6.8 AR... If Obama had a grandpappy, he would NOT look like 6.8. He's whiter than Rick Santorum (I only razz him because of his avatar)

[RobertNashville]

He may not have been certain enough that he was being followed....

Thats seems a contradiction to what you said here...

...I think Zimmerman murdered him because he is trigger happy and a wanna be, and perhaps the young man attempted to defend himself from Zimmerman's aggressive actions....Such as stalking him for blocks...(emphasis mine)

If Zimmerman really was stalking him for blocks I would think he (Martin) would know. However, if Martin wasn't certain he was being followed then I don't see how being followed could have precipitated anything between the two men as you have suggested both in the post quoted above and in others in this threat.

Edited April 4, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Guest 6.8 AR]

TMF, Just so you're not surprized when you meet 6.8 AR... If Obama had a grandpappy, he would NOT look like 6.8. He's whiter than Rick Santorum (I only razz him because of his avatar)

You're still a racist

[mcurrier]

I think it will go away, since NBC is being criticized, and the other bad actors are being exposed

for what they are.

Sure it will, but the damage is already done, that's what the media, Jesse, Al and Obama wanted and they got it. No repercussions to the so-called media. People will forget that it was all manufactured. Except for those who pay attention.

[RobertNashville]

If you look at those posts you'll see that I am not a representative of the government nor do people refer to me as "your Honor".

No one has said otherwise and I'm not even sure why such a statement is relevant or needed.

I'm entitled to my opinion...

No one has said you aren't entitled to an opinion. That does not mean anybody needs to agree with your opinion or hold their own opinion that your opinion isn't well founded.

...and I welcome a debate that challenges that opinion...

I've seen no evidence that you are willing to debate...in fact you've made it pretty clear that nothing is going to alter you opinion which makes "debating" a rather useless exercise.

...but what I don't welcome are personal attacks on my opinion or someone saying that I shouldn't have an opinion. It's childish.

No one has personally attacked you and it isn't even possible to "personally attack" an "opinion" (you might want to look up just what a "personal attack" is before you start accusing people of doing it). OR to paraphrase one of the greatest lines from one of the greatest movies ever made, "I don't think that phrase means what you think it means". LOL Edited April 4, 2012 by RobertNashville

[TMF]

Thats seems a contradiction to what you said here...

If Zimmerman really was stalking him for blocks I would think he Martin would know. However, if he (Martin) wasn't certain he was being followed then I don't see how being followed could have precipitated anything between the two men as you have suggested both in the post quoted above and in others in this threat.

I don't know what happened, but I know what I think happened. It's not a contradiction. He probably thought he was being followed but a person can easily talk themselves out of believing that something bad is happening. I gave an example above of my own experience. Could I have called the police? Sure, but I wasn't certain what was going on and wouldn't until the guy follows me into my driveway. By then it would be too late and my only choice would be to defend myself.

[RobertNashville]

I don't know what happened, but I know what I think happened. It's not a contradiction. He probably thought he was being followed but a person can easily talk themselves out of believing that something bad is happening.

A lot of theory that places the burden for the incident on Zimmerman rests on the idea that Zimmerman was being overly zealous/aggressive.

If Martin didn't know or was a lot less than sure that he was being followed (and it's far from clear to me just "how" and how long Zimmerman was or wasn't "following" Martin) then it doesn't seem to me that Zimmerman was all that aggressive; at least not aggressive enough that there was any need for anybody to start a physical confrontation.

Edited April 4, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Guest Lester Weevils]

There's a certain element in our society that wants nothing to do with the police what-so-ever. That element doesn't call 911.

Hi EB-SF. Yep there are some who would be crazy to seek extra notice by the police. And as TMF 18B mentions, some people don't think such things important enough to warrant a 911 call or filling out police reports or whatever.

I never needed to call the popo very often, but only called em twice as a young man. One time for a car break-in and two times for the same thing because the downstairs neighbor would occasionally get drunk and beat on his wife and kids. When the police would arrive the man would act very upstanding and respectable and the wife and kids would pretend nothing was wrong, and so it was wasted breath to call the popo even in that case. As soon as the popo would drive off the dude would resume yelling and throwing stuff. Most events just didn't seem important enough to involve the police. Maybe police would have taken interest in a random scuffle but it never occurred to me that they would consider it worth their time.

Do you reckon that it is customary nowadays that people will call 911 over every little thing? I don't know. Just curious. Many commentators moan that we are becoming a "litigation society" but maybe we are also becoming a "call the police" society? Or whatever one would call it? Maybe sociologists have a name for it? Dunno whether that would be either good or bad. It just didn't seem customary to call the cops very often in the past, unless something was serious wrong. So if it has become customary nowadays, then that would seem a cultural change.

Here is a silly story when I was about 12 about 1960. Cub scouts or boy scouts, can't recall. In Illinois, the troop was camping in a state park. The kids were running around in the woods at night goofing as kids will do. We had the place to ourselves and there wasn't anybody else there to annoy. None of the kids were juvenile delinquents. Typical middle-class burb kids. The park ranger drove up and got out to look around, and ALL the kids but me scattered and went hiding in the bushes. They weren't doing anything wrong and they were not trespassing but they still "instinctively" ran away from the fuzz! I said howdy to the ranger and he said howdy back, then got back in his truck and drove off. It just stuck in my mind. Possible evidence that completely innocent people might be "naturally fearful" of the fuzz?

I would agree that I would be exceptionally cautious about roaming around in someones yard in my neighborhood. However, consider that the area this event occured in is laid out a bit differently. Also remember that Z told the police that M was beating his head on the concrete. The link has a good map of the area. It almost looks like open area rowhouses.

http://www.wagist.co...in-doubled-back

Thanks Gwith40. Interesting article (and an interesting little web site overall). I lived in an apartment for a couple years but it was a triplex with a yard. Do not have life experience to judge Z and M's situation and what would be 'normal' in such circumstances. Police reported Z's grass stains, but that place has such puny excuse for yards, then maybe none of the residents notice or care who is in their tiny little patch of green?

The place looks nice enough, but editorializing, if one only had two choices-- (1) live some place like that, or alternately (2) live in a country tin shack-- Even if the townhouse row was very luxurious I'd pick the tin shack. Having discussed this theory with the wife, she does not completely agree.

Went "virtual snooping" the neighborhood with google street view.

http://maps.google.c...ved=0CC0Q8gEwAA

At the time the streetview pictures were taken, one gate was wide open and the other gate was closed. All the "street sides" of the place are fenced, but as far as I can see, no fence on the "back sides" of the place. The security arrangements would only discourage interlopers who happen to be too lazy to walk an extra 25 yards.

[CQB Elite]

Do you reckon that it is customary nowadays that people will call 911 over every little thing?

I don't know. What I can tell you is I did spend a lot of time helping adults solve their problems. Problems that some of the time didn't involve any violations of criminal statutes or county ordinances. We could sit on a front porch for an entire month and me tell you boring stories about some of these but I'd rather hear you tell me about your time playing in some rough joints.

I did once go to a ladies house because her neighbor's cat was using her dirt driveway as a potty and she wanted me to tell the cat owner to stop. I asked her if she had gone over to the neighbor's house and talked with her herself. She hadn't....

Another time a lady wanted me to make her 12 year old daughter go to school......

[Guest Gwith40]

I don't think I would like the close quarters there in that community.

This may have already been mentioned but M's father has given several differing accounts of what happened that night. The father says that M was watching the all star game and went to the store at half-time. This isn't possible....that game started at 7:30. Trayvon was already dead by the time the game started.

I suspect there is much more to that aspect of the story. We may never hear that part.

[TMF]

I won't go into personal attacks. I would rather say others disagree with you, TMF. So what?

I'd also rather disagree with you. So what? I doubt anyone is keeping score, as if it mattered.

We need to grab a cup of coffee sometime, if you're not in ugly, that is.

If only Lowes had a coffee shop. Seems I've been living there the past two weeks.

I'm not accusing you of making anything personal. Plenty of people disagree and I have and I have no problem with that, but when it turns into what it has it drives away folks with differing opinions because they don't like to be harassed by those that can't play well with others.

[RobertNashville]

...Plenty of people disagree and I have and I have no problem with that, but when it turns into what it has it drives away folks with differing opinions because they don't like to be harassed by those that can't play well with others.

I don't believe anyone has been "driven away" and disagreement or pointing out inconsistencies in a person's opinion/statements is not harassment.

Edited April 5, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Guest 6.8 AR]

If only Lowes had a coffee shop. Seems I've been living there the past two weeks.

I'm not accusing you of making anything personal. Plenty of people disagree and I have and I have no problem with that, but when it turns into what it has it drives away folks with differing opinions because they don't like to be harassed by those that can't play well with others.

I've been living at Lowe's quite a bit lately, too. It isn't personal to me. I just want it to come out clean.

Hyperbole and lies are so rampant in the reporting, it's difficult to form a reasonable opinion. Networks

are back pedaling so much now that they are the true bad guys in the whole thing. They had their influence

and, as far as I'm concerned, most all major media outlets have exposed themselves as crooked and

fraudulent and should never be trusted again. I quit trusting after Walter Cronkite came out as a socialist.

Too bad it was after he retired from CBS. At least he reported instead of editorialized.

[Mike.357]

And i heard Limbaugh today going on that the "f'ing coon" comment has now been debunked and Zimmerman never said that.

[mikegideon]

And i heard Limbaugh today going on that the "f'ing coon" comment has now been debunked and Zimmerman never said that.

A LOT of the information is total BS. It's a Libtard frenzy.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I think the libtards are going to lose this one because of it.

[mikegideon]

Hopefully it will balance out some of the dumb coming out of the Repubs (in the election). Their arrogance is pretty huge. Trying to rally for changes in state laws where they DON'T live. I watched Zimmerman's attorneys get crabby with that English douchebag on CNN last night.

Edited April 5, 2012 by mikegideon