Don't think this is how the "stand your ground law" works

[DaveTN]

If you are not capable of dealing with a thug, and you suspect you see a thug, do you:

1- Go get in the thug's face

2- Wait for the police

Here… or in Florida? I guess in Florida it is legal to chase him down and kill him.

If Z had waited for the police, is it likely that M would have jumped the police?

1- Yes

2- No

Doubtful, but we have no way of knowing that.

If Z had waited for the police, and M had jumped the police, is it likely that the police would have had to shoot M in order to control him?

1- Yes

2- No

With a taser maybe or mace.

If Z had waited for the police, is it likely that M would still be alive?

1- Yes

2- No

Martin was 2 minutes away from still being alive.

If Z had waited for the police, is it likely that the Black Panthers would have a bounty on Z's head, or that Z will be in for years of various legal, personal, and financial hassle?

1- Yes

2- No

No, and I doubt he will have many financial hardships if he can stay alive. If he doesn’t go to prison he will make a lot of money off this case. (Interviews, Movie deals, whatever)

He is already claiming PTSD (Of course he is ), maybe he can sue Martins family for even more money.

[JPR1959]

According to the reports, Zimmerman was on the phone with the 911 operators and lost sight of Martin. Zimmerman was going to get back in his car, then Martin jumped him from behind and punched him in the face. Zimmerman was then thrown on the ground.

[TMF]

According to the reports, Zimmerman was on the phone with the 911 operators and lost sight of Martin. Zimmerman was going to get back in his car, then Martin jumped him from behind and punched him in the face. Zimmerman was then thrown on the ground.

If homicide investigations began and ended on the initial police report then we wouldn't need detectives. Apparently there were enough inaccuracies that the PD sought to have him charged. The DA deciding not to press charges doesn't mean Zimmerman is cleared of wrongdoing. It means that he isn't confident he can get a conviction. That translates to the PD gathering more evidence.

Edited March 30, 2012 by TMF 18B

[Links2k]

Z is certainly braver than me. I'm way too cowardly to go looking for trouble.

If you poke a bear with a stick, do you deserve to be mauled?

====

A little questionaire--

If you are not capable of dealing with a thug, and you suspect you see a thug, do you:

1- Go get in the thug's face

2- Wait for the police

If Z had waited for the police, is it likely that M would have jumped the police?

1- Yes

2- No

If Z had waited for the police, and M had jumped the police, is it likely that the police would have had to shoot M in order to control him?

1- Yes

2- No

If Z had waited for the police, is it likely that M would still be alive?

1- Yes

2- No

If Z had waited for the police, is it likely that the Black Panthers would have a bounty on Z's head, or that Z will be in for years of various legal, personal, and financial hassle?

1- Yes

2- No

IMO it comes down to judgement. If you ain't qualified to put yer hands in a live breaker box, then if you have good judgement you ain't gonna put yer hands in a live breaker box.

Sound reasoning, but that's not what the circle jerk club is looking for. People are angry at Obama and blacks in general are they aren't going to take this crap sitting down anymore.

[Links2k]

Some folks around here got their use of force curriculum in a strange school. Asking someone what their business is in your neighborhood is grounds to get beaten, but responding to a beating with a firearm is a no-no.

I agree

Edited March 30, 2012 by LINKS2K

[RobertNashville]

If homicide investigations began and ended on the initial police report then we wouldn't need detectives. Apparently there were enough inaccuracies that the PD sought to have him charged. The DA deciding not to press charges doesn't mean Zimmerman is cleared of wrongdoing. It means that he isn't confident he can get a conviction. That translates to the PD gathering more evidence.

I don't see how you could know about any inaccuracies given that the only "facts" you want to consider is one 911 tape.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yeh, it's sound if you want to only lead the narrative in one direction, which is why justice will go nowhere.

Get your politically correct nose out of the toilet, links.

Edited March 30, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[Links2k]

Yeh, it's sound if you want to only lead the narrative in one direction, which is why justice will go nowhere.

Get your politically correct nose out of the toilet, links.

You just lie in wait for me like a sniper don't ya? I hope that you all know that after a while I have to make light of these situations because we all have a tendency to get too caught up in these matters. I am not offended when I am called politically correct or a liberal. I would rather be thought of in those terms than be lumped with a group of evil hearted pyeudo-christian assholes who contradict the teaching of Christ everytime that they weight in on issues that could trully use compassion, thought and understanding.

In other words I have no clue as to what happened. No one on TGO does and I decided to rattle some cages because we are all starting be believe that we are experts in the subject matter.

Edited March 30, 2012 by LINKS2K

[RobertNashville]

Respectfully request that statements made here that Zimmerman is a coward be substantiated. Likewise that Zimmerman deserved being brutally assaulted. Please be prepared to support your conclusion with the evidence we have at hand

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for substantiation or evidence from those who have already decided, even decided from day one, that Zimmerman is the guilty party.

I realize that armchair quarterbacking almost every significant event is almost a national pastime today. However, it's discouraging that so many are willing to draw seemingly unchangeable conclusions about this event when they weren't there and know nothing about the circumstances aside from what a largely agenda driven and often stupid and even irresponsible press is is willing to make available to them.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Sorry, this is for links

No, because I wonder why you have to insult others instead of trying to use a conversation

in a positive note. You seem to want to insult instead od engage. Look in the damned mirror

sometime. Garbage in, garbage out. Calling people circle jerkers or whatever is ridiculous.

Why don't you quit that? If you're so damned superior, then show it or do something else.

Forums are for people to communicate with another, not just insult. Figure it out!

Edited March 30, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[Links2k]

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for substantiation or evidence from those who have already decided, even decided from day one, that Zimmerman is the guilty party.

I realize that armchair quarterbacking almost every significant event is almost a national pastime today. However, it's discouraging that so many are willing to draw seemingly unchangeable conclusions about this event when they weren't there and know nothing about the circumstances aside from what a largely agenda driven and often stupid and even irresponsible press is is willing to make available to them.

That's what everyone here is doing. Both sides believes their tainted sources. I am certain that the justice department or SPD hasn't faxed anyone here any memos or asked for opinions. So, we are all coming to conclusions based upon the facts or lack thereof presented to us by our chosen source of information.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't what you call yourself. It's the insulting attitude you take that raises my hackles.

[TMF]

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for substantiation or evidence from those who have already decided, even decided from day one, that Zimmerman is the guilty party.

I realize that armchair quarterbacking almost every significant event is almost a national pastime today. However, it's discouraging that so many are willing to draw seemingly unchangeable conclusions about this event when they weren't there and know nothing about the circumstances aside from what a largely agenda driven and often stupid and even irresponsible press is is willing to make available to them.

You've had no problem "armchair quarterbacking" a dead, unarmed 17 year old so don't start this veiled mudslinging.

How can one substantiate that anyone is a coward? Is it possible? Probably not. I would call the 9/11 high jackers cowards, but others might say they were brave for facing their deaths. My opinion is that Zimmerman is a coward. I base this on his phone call to 911; he sounds like so many mall ninjas I've encountered over the years. Those folks are usually cowards. I also think he started the altercation, which would make him a coward by default if he began an altercation whilst knowing he has a pistol to back him up.

[RobertNashville]

...If he doesn’t go to prison he will make a lot of money off this case

Really? You know this for a fact do you?

And by the way, if he is never charged or is charged and found not guilty; what is wrong with making money selling his story? I think selling a product and making money from doing so is called capitalism.

He is already claiming PTSD (Of course he is ).

Let's see...you shoot a 17 year old; justified or not.

You face possible charges and jail time.

You are under a microscope by the national vultures...I mean press.

You have you life not just threatened with credible threats but have a price put on your head.

Whether you were in any way justified or not for shooting; your life is effectively down that toilet and you aren't even 30 years old yet.

Yeah..only a drama queen would have any sort of stress disorder from this incident.

I'm so glad you pointed that out.

Edited March 30, 2012 by RobertNashville

[mikegideon]

I view this thread as a bunch of harmless banter, with a lot of information thrown in. TGO always has conflicitng opinions on about any subject. Nobody needs to get their drawers in a wad.

Edited March 30, 2012 by mikegideon

[RobertNashville]

That's what everyone here is doing. Both sides believes their tainted sources. I am certain that the justice department or SPD hasn't faxed anyone here any memos or asked for opinions. So, we are all coming to conclusions based upon the facts or lack thereof presented to us by our chosen source of information.

I've come to only two conclusions; one is that that there aren't enough facts for anyone to reach an informed conclusion about who was in the right and who was in the wrong.

The other conclusion I've come to is that there are too many people willing to condemn a man based on virtually nothing at all; even to the point of ignoring information that doesn't support their already formed and often baseless opinion.

[RobertNashville]

You've had no problem "armchair quarterbacking" a dead, unarmed 17 year old so don't start this veiled mudslinging.

Where, exactly is the post or posts where I've reached or stated ANY conclusion about Martin OR Zimmerman...come on...quote the posts with links to them.

Claiming I've reached any conclusion about either man in this case is either fantasy on your part or indicates that you believe, falsely, that my not condemning Zimmerman (as you appear to be so willing to do) is equivalent to condemning Martin.

Oh by the way...if the mud sticks that's more your problem than it is mine I think!

How can one substantiate that anyone is a coward? Is it possible? Probably not. I would call the 9/11 high jackers cowards, but others might say they were brave for facing their deaths. My opinion is that Zimmerman is a coward. I base this on his phone call to 911; he sounds like so many mall ninjas I've encountered over the years. Those folks are usually cowards. I also think he started the altercation, which would make him a coward by default if he began an altercation whilst knowing he has a pistol to back him up.

You are entitled to your opinion but an opinion based on nothing or based on one piece of information while ignoring other information has no value and is rightly ignored.

Edited March 30, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Links2k]

Sorry, this is for links

No, because I wonder why you have to insult others instead of trying to use a conversation

in a positive note. You seem to want to insult instead od engage. Look in the damned mirror

sometime. Garbage in, garbage out. Calling people circle jerkers or whatever is ridiculous.

Why don't you quit that? If you're so damned superior, then show it or do something else.

Forums are for people to communicate with another, not just insult. Figure it out!

It's not all about about the insult, but I find it interesting that it takes a insult before some will settle down long enough to hear what you have to say. When it comes to guns we are all like minded individuals, but on almost any other hot button subject matter a person with opposing views that haven't been picked up on Fox News over morning coffee is bashed for no good reason. It's as if some are attempting to force their opinions on others and if that person fails to assimilate then we'll berate you until you do or you quit coming around.

I provoked on this thread because I grew tired of reading another member get bashed because he saw things different than the group with all of the "facts". No man on here needs me to stand up for him, but it gets old watching the the pack attack individuals for having differing opinions.

Discussions are productive when everyone involved agree that it is ok for others to have differing opinions. If everyone is going to agree on everything then the discussion in nothing more than a "circle jerk". I can only learn if I am open to other peoples views based on their experiences and knowledge. Others can't learn if they continually shut down opposing views.

I am hoping to learn from things that I read on this thread. I am hoping to learn from this tragic situation involving Zimmerman and Martin. There are no winners here. It's ok that members disagree. I see it as a opportunity for everyone to learn... not just be right. The lessons from this shoot may prove valuable for one of us in the future.

Edited March 30, 2012 by LINKS2K

[Links2k]

I view this thread as a bunch of harmless banter, with a lot of information thrown in. TGO always has conflicitng opinions on about any subject. Nobody needs to get their drawers in a wad.

Truth!

[Links2k]

I've come to only two conclusions; one is that that there aren't enough facts for anyone to reach an informed conclusion about who was in the right and who was in the wrong.

The other conclusion I've come to is that there are too many people willing to condemn a man based on virtually nothing at all; even to the point of ignoring information that doesn't support their already formed and often baseless opinion.

I agree with you, but my conclusions lean in favor of Martin and yours favor Zimmerman. So either way a innocent man is being falsely condemned.

[mikegideon]

I have drawn some conclusions about this case. I've tried to read everything, AND consider the sources. We SHOULD be talking about this. There are little snippets of valuable information that one of us might need some day. All self defense shootings are gnarly, some more than others.

Edited March 30, 2012 by mikegideon

[daddyo]

Wow...I can't believe that on a stunningly beautiful Sunday afternoon so many people are here, pretty much saying the same thing over an over again.

I'm going out and shoot some'thin!.

I've come to only two conclusions; one is that that there aren't enough facts for anyone to reach an informed conclusion about who was in the right and who was in the wrong.

The other conclusion I've come to is that there are too many people willing to condemn a man based on virtually nothing at all; even to the point of ignoring information that doesn't support their already formed and often baseless opinion.

So glad to see you taking your own advice and not saying the same thing over and over again....

Hey man, go out and shoot sumthin' and relax!!!

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It's not all about about the insult, but I find it interesting that it takes a insult before some will settle down long enough to hear what you have to say. When it comes to guns we are all like minded individuals, but on almost any other hot button subject matter a person with opposing views that haven't been picked up on Fox News over morning coffee is bashed for no good reason. It's as if some are attempting to force their opinions on others and if that person fails to assimilate then we'll berate you until you do or you quit coming around.

I provoked on this thread because I grew tired of reading another member get bashed because he saw things different than the group with all of the "facts". No man on here needs me to stand up for him, but it gets old watching the the pack attack individuals for having differing opinions.

Discussions are productive when everyone involved agree that it is ok for others to have differing opinions. If everyone is going to agree on everything then the discussion in nothing more than a "circle jerk". I can only learn if I am open to other peoples views based on their experiences and knowledge. Others can't learn if they continually shut down opposing views.

I am hoping to learn from things that I read on this thread. I am hoping to learn from this tragic situation involving Zimmerman and Martin. There are no winners here. It's ok that members disagree. I see it as a opportunity for everyone to learn... not just be right. The lessons from this shoot may prove valuable for one of us in the future.

Well, that's a lot better, but I don't see how anyone that agrees with another, that happens to disagree

with you, in that fashion, has to be a circle jerker. You might consider that you and I actually agree on

a lot of things, but it is counterproductive when an argument, or opinions, go against you. Based on the

discussion so far, the information leads me to think there is too much to lose by taking sides with a

media induced misrepresentation of the evidence and spin of what may turn out as an injustice. That's

why I think there will be no justice served by that kind of attitude of another's opinion. It's representative

of the times.

I don't care that we disagree. Disagreements can come to resolve problems between reasonable people.

It the unreasonable person I object to.

[TMF]

You are entitled to your opinion but an opinion based on nothing or based on one piece of information while ignoring other information has no value and is rightly ignored.

Okay, then ignore it.

[Links2k]

Well, that's a lot better, but I don't see how anyone that agrees with another, that happens to disagree

with you, in that fashion, has to be a circle jerker. You might consider that you and I actually agree on

a lot of things, but it is counterproductive when an argument, or opinions, go against you. Based on the

discussion so far, the information leads me to think there is too much to lose by taking sides with a

media induced misrepresentation of the evidence and spin of what may turn out as an injustice. That's

why I think there will be no justice served by that kind of attitude of another's opinion. It's representative

of the times.

I don't care that we disagree. Disagreements can come to resolve problems between reasonable people.

It the unreasonable person I object to.

I accept your apology. Just kidding. I agree, because I believe that we are reaonable people.