Don't think this is how the "stand your ground law" works

[KahrMan]

This video is really gonna add fuel to the fire. Zimmerman claims he was beaten to a point that he had to use deadly force. Where is the blood? Where is the swelling? I am not saying he was not hit but it looks like his claims were exaggerated.

[mikegideon]

A lot of people quoting the "he bashed his head on the sidewalk" claim to support their arguments. This is why I want to see more evidence. Because I haven't seen any evidence of this head bashing yet. His "injuries" could've simply been the result of a struggle between him and Martin. There also isn't much reporting on any injuries Martin sustained other than the gunshot. And now we have new reports that Zimmerman's reported injuries were exaggerated.

http://www.cbsnews.c...vious-injuries/

We may need a trial to get this info.

Yeah. A video tape of Zimmerman at the police station surfaced last night. It's a terrible video, but he's not looking real banged up.

[BigK]

I freely admit that the extent of Zimmerman's injuries could have been exaggerated. That would actually support the fact that one investigator was pushing for his arrest didn't believe his story. I just saw that video of him being brought into the sally port and I didn't see blood on his face or head. BUT, he was treated on the scene and that blood may have been cleaned off of him by paramedics, who knows.

If those injuries are superficial, then I agree with DaveTN and others who say he should have taken the azz whoopin and limped home. At some point the alleged head-bashing ceased long enough for him to draw his weapon and shoot the kid. Still, it's all more about speculation and less about facts for now.

[RobertNashville]

And I think that’s part of the problem here. Many people here are putting themselves in the shoes of the shooter because they have a carry permit. They want desperately to believe that they can use that gun any time they are in fear of getting their azz kicked and don’t have to worry about going to prison.

You keep talking about a person getting their ass kicked - how can you be so certain that's all that happened in this case? I don't think you were there....I don't think you have interviewed the eye-witnesses or have been involved in the investigation.

Maybe I'm wrong but isn't there a difference, both in law as well as in practice, between an "ass whooping" and getting beaten to the point of death or serious, perhaps life-threatening injury?

I'm not going to shoot someone just because I'm getting my ass kicked...I will probably shoot someone if I'm getting beat up to the point that I don't think the assailant will stop until I'm dead or so seriously injured that I might as well be dead. My fear is not getting my azz kicked or of "jail"; my fear is that I may someday have to defend my life or the life of another innocent person by taking the life of another...that's a day I hope never comes...it's also a day I train for and prepare my mind for so that if it does come, I'll do what needs to be done (or at least attempt to do so).

What I desperately believe is that should I ever be involved in a self-defense shooting. whether I'm morally and/or legally in the "right" or not, my life will be irreversibly altered in a way that I won't want it to be regardless of whether I stand trial and/or go to jail.

Even if Martin was 100% in the wrong and Zimmerman 100% in the right; there are no "winners" here. Look at how many people have had their lives ruined because of this...a family has lost a teenage son....the entire Zimmerman family is likely (and should be) in fear for their lives. Zimmerman can probably never return to his home and who would want to buy it given that it's likely a target of racially based retribution? What about the completely innocent elderly couple who are can't go back to THEIR home because Spike Idiot Lee incorrectly tweeted that couple's address as Zimmerman's address?

No...I see no winners here regardless of what the law eventually decides.

[RobertNashville]

I freely admit that the extent of Zimmerman's injuries could have been exaggerated. That would actually support the fact that one investigator was pushing for his arrest didn't believe his story. I just saw that video of him being brought into the sally port and I didn't see blood on his face or head. BUT, he was treated on the scene and that blood may have been cleaned off of him by paramedics, who knows.

If those injuries are superficial, then I agree with DaveTN and others who say he should have taken the azz whoopin and limped home. At some point the alleged head-bashing ceased long enough for him to draw his weapon and shoot the kid. Still, it's all more about speculation and less about facts for now.

I don't know what current procedure is but when I ran as an EMT with Kitsap County (Washington) FD we cleaned blood from the injured areas as part of the emergency treatment; not to make the injured "look pretty" but to be able to see the injury. We need to hear from those who treated him ad the scene and after to know just how injured he was.

That begs the question, however, how much of beating is one required to take before it reaches the point of the beaten being in legitimate fear for his life? Must he want until he is almost dead before he can act?

[BigK]

That begs the question, however, how much of beating is one required to take before it reaches the point of the beaten being in legitimate fear for his life? Must he want until he is almost dead before he can act?

That's a fuzzy line in the sand in my estimation. That's why the law was written to say the victim must have "reasonable" fear of death or serious injury. He may not know where that line is or whether it's too late at that point to defend himself.

[Links2k]

Wow! Camera in a sallyport. Dang, all of those gadgets. All of this new technology is going to be the death of us. If paramedics cleaned him up that good they need an Oscar for best makeup in a horror film 2012.

[RobertNashville]

Wow! Camera in a sallyport. Dang, all of those gadgets. All of this new technology is going to be the death of us. If paramedics cleaned him up that good they need an Oscar for best makeup in a horror film 2012.

Now, this may be a really wild suggestion but instead of relying on poor quality video that doesn't tell us much of anything about his injuries; how about we wait to hear testimony (if this case actually gets to court) from the medics and/or physicians that treated his injuries before we decide how "serious" his injuries actually were.

[mikegideon]

Turning into a real nail biter. At least they can quantify his injuries. There's one detail that can't be proven one way or the other. Did the gun come up for grabs?

If his injuries are superficial enough that it was just an ass whippin', then my opinion is that it needs to go to trial.

Oh, and one more thing... Nancy grace needs a raging case of herpes. Nothing gray about that.

[raydog1]

That begs the question, however, how much of beating is one required to take before it reaches the point of the beaten being in legitimate fear for his life? Must he want until he is almost dead before he can act?

Enough that a jury believes one is reasonably fearful of death or serious injury. Of course, that line depends on the juror. Chuck Liddell would likely draw that line a lot farther than Barney Fife.

[Links2k]

Now, this may be a really wild suggestion but instead of relying on poor quality video that doesn't tell us much of anything about his injuries; how about we wait to hear testimony (if this case actually gets to court) from the medics and/or physicians that treated his injuries before we decide how "serious" his injuries actually were.

If I did that you wouldn't get all worked. What fun would that be?

[raydog1]

Turning into a real nail biter. At least they can quantify his injuries. There's one detail that can't be proven one way or the other. Did the gun come up for grabs?

If his injuries are superficial enough that it was just an ass whippin', then my opinion is that it needs to go to trial.

Oh, and one more thing... Nancy grace needs a raging case of herpes. Nothing gray about that.

This has been a big question for me since the beginning. But, since Zimmerman was allowed to keep the gun (and I would be shocked if he didn't clean it), chances of finding Martin's fingerprints on it now are probably zero.

[mikegideon]

Columbo himself couldn't lift fingerprints off a Keltec grip.

[Guest wdytia]

Well, I looked at the police video on television several times. I may not be a rocket scientist, but I did notice a few odd issues. I did not see any wet, grass stained clothing on Mr. Zimmerman. I also did not see the wounds that should have been on the back of his head, after having his head slammed into the concrete sidewalk as he said. When the officer opened Zimmerman's jacket, his nice, light gray shirt had NO blood on it. If Martin had him pinned down and Zimmerman shot him in fear of his life, how did Martin NOT bleed on him at all, since he was sitting on Zimmerman's chest? Blood sprays, especially up close. I have seen three people who had fights and had their noses broken; each one's face was swollen, eyes were black and they all bled like a stuck pig. Zimmerman did not appear to be bleeding, swollen or bruised. Zimmerman's nice shirt was also neatly tucked in; no disaray at all. This must have been the neatest fight in the world; he could have been coming from a date. I also noticed that the police had on NO gloves and did not seem to be preserving the clothing to test for DNA (which would prove Martin attacked) or blood (either Zimmerman's or Martin's) or anything else. Aren't the police supposed to photograph the shooter before they let him clean up or go home with the clothing on? This was not a simple fist fight on the street; someone actually was killed! Many have said the police did not have enough evidence to charge him; hard to have enough if none is collected. Guess it helps to have a retired judge for a father; good for Zimmerman at least.

Edited March 29, 2012 by wdytia

[Links2k]

Well, I looked at the police video on television several times. I may not be a rocket scientist, but I did notice a few odd issues. I did not see any wet, grass stained clothing on Mr. Zimmerman. I also did not see the wounds that should have been on the back of his head, after having his head slammed into the concrete sidewalk as he said. When the officer opened Zimmerman's jacket, his nice, light gray shirt had NO blood on it. If Martin had him pinned down and Zimmerman shot him in fear of his life, how did Martin NOT bleed on him at all, since he was sitting on Zimmerman's chest? Blood sprays, especially up close. I have seen three people who had fights and had their noses broken; each one's face was swollen, eyes were black and they all bled like a stuck pig. Zimmerman did not appear to be bleeding, swollen or bruised. Zimmerman's nice shirt was also neatly tucked in; no disaray at all. This must have been the neatest fight in the world; he could have been coming from a date. I also noticed that the police had on NO gloves and did not seem to be preserving the clothing to test for DNA (which would prove Martin attacked) or blood (either Zimmerman's or Martin's) or anything else. Many have said the police did not have enough evidence to charge him; hard to have enough if none is collected. Guess it helps to have a retired judge for a father; good for Zimmerman at least.

Maybe the officers let him change clothes after the makeup artist were finished with him.

[kieefer]

http://www.wrko.com/blog/todd/another-witness-zimmerman-beaten-trayvon

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/second-trayvon-martin-twitter-feed-identified/

The hits just keep coming.

[mikegideon]

Dang. That second witness looks like Obama's son too.

[Guest RevScottie]

This has been a big question for me since the beginning. But, since Zimmerman was allowed to keep the gun (and I would be shocked if he didn't clean it), chances of finding Martin's fingerprints on it now are probably zero.

Where in the world do you get the idea that they let him walk with the gun? The police report indicates it was submitted into evidence, surely they didn't give it back to him?

[Links2k]

Dang. That second witness looks like Obama's son too.

You have good eyes.

[mikegideon]

You have good eyes.

Ain't hard to tell . I'm still pissed at Obama for that comment. I don't think it was helpful.

[Guest RevScottie]

Here is something else to consider and just like everything else it relies on evidence that can not be proven at this time:

Zimmerman's father says that Trayvon said something like "You are gonna die tonight" during the altercation. Seems like that should certainly have some consideration in just wether this was a simple backyard brawl or does that statement show intent? If someone is beating you AND says they are gonna kill you how far would you let that go?

[kieefer]

Speaking of obama would be sons,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9173820/Parents-of-murdered-British-students-criticise-Barack-Obama.html

[FJCrusing]

http://dailycaller.c...trayvon-martin/

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s niece is criticizing the Rev. Al Sharpton and the Rev. Jesse Jackson for politicizing the Trayvon Martin shooting and leveraging racial tensions to rile up Americans.

Edited March 29, 2012 by FJCrusing

[raydog1]

Where in the world do you get the idea that they let him walk with the gun? The police report indicates it was submitted into evidence, surely they didn't give it back to him?

This was reported a few days after this hit the media. It was one the big anti-gunner gripes about the whole situation, that he was allowed to keep the weapon. Granted, I didn't see any 1st hand reports of this from the police.

Edit:

Ah, here it is:

UPDATE: The Brady Campaign sent this statement to TheDC Monday evening: “It has now been reported that the Sanford Police Department is in possession of the gun that George Zimmerman used to shoot Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman, however, still has his concealed carry license and he still has the ability to buy a gun and carry it into public spaces.â€

Read more: http://dailycaller.c.../#ixzz1qWvYpT63

Edited March 29, 2012 by raydog1

[Guest RevScottie]

Yeah raydog the biggest problem in this entire case was the irresponsible reports from the media. I don't now how long that police report has been available but the media continued to spout nonsense about him not being questioned, having his gun etc, well after I saw the police report. Makes you wonder if they really wanted to see it?