Don't think this is how the "stand your ground law" works

[QuietDan]

I always wanna know what they're thinking.

Well, actually, not . . . thinking . . . more like feeeeeeeeelinggggggggg.

[CQB Elite]

Ya know, when I clicked on the link and saw that it was Maher, I shut it down. I'm not the least bit interested in anything that douchenozzle has to say.

Amen to that! IMHO Maher is irrelevant to just about any discussion.

[DaveTN]

I guess I’m in the minority here. I’ve been in a few fights in my life and I feel that if you instigate a confrontation that leads to a fight, you fight with your fists. If you get your azz beat; so be it, you learn your lesson and move on. You don’t instigate a fight and then pull a gun once you figured out you have done something really stupid. Being stupid should hurt.

If he’s isn’t tough enough to do that he needed to stay home on the couch watching TV instead of wondering the streets bothering innocent people. Or at least stayed in his truck and let the people that could handle the situation deal with it.

If the stories of what happened are true, he may legally get off. But he’s still a punk that needed a gun. He’s going to have to answer for what he did no matter what happens. I just think a trial is in order.

[Mike.357]

I am not sure how Zimmerman instigated a fight. He did not corner Martin, he certainly did not swing first.

I will make an assumption and assume he called out to Martin, maybe asked who he was, what was he doing??? Is that starting a fight?

Did Martin not get away and then confront Zimmerman by hitting him?

If you are on my street, look out of place and I take interest in you are you going to hide and then come up unseen and start wailing on me? And if you do that am I not to defend myself?

Why not stand under a street light and ask me who I am? Talk first. Duh. Keep a distance but talk. Not evade like a criminal.

The more I read and think about this maybe Martin may well have gotten what was coming to him.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Mike.357

[DaveTN]

He did not corner Martin, he certainly did not swing first.

How could you possibly know that? No witnesses that I have heard about yet saw the fight start.

[CQB Elite]

I guess I’m in the minority here. I’ve been in a few fights in my life and I feel that if you instigate a confrontation that leads to a fight, you fight with your fists. If you get your azz beat; so be it, you learn your lesson and move on. You don’t instigate a fight and then pull a gun once you figured out you have done something really stupid. Being stupid should hurt.

If he’s isn’t tough enough to do that he needed to stay home on the couch watching TV instead of wondering the streets bothering innocent people. Or at least stayed in his truck and let the people that could handle the situation deal with it.

If the stories of what happened are true, he may legally get off. But he’s still a punk that needed a gun. He’s going to have to answer for what he did no matter what happens. I just think a trial is in order.

I agree with you 100% that you don't pull a gun after starting a fist fight. Guess Zimmerman's Jiu-Jitsu is weak.

Zimmerman is probably just like the people I see here in TN that get their HCP and then go out and buy the badge to go with it.

I still don't believe the state will have a successful prosecution. That's why the kid's mom retained Crump, so she could sue everyone involved.

[Mike.357]

What reason would Zimmerman have had to swing first? That make no sense. I have not seen anything that indicated Zimmerman started any physical confrontation.

[Links2k]

Maybe I'm wrong but as facts have bubbled to the surface over the last several days I've noticed a few here who were so dead certain that the shooter was in the wrong are starting to change their tune just a bit; at least their posts now seem less sure of their earlier assertions - I still don't know who was in the wrong here (and said so from the beginning) but I'm starting to suspect that some here are going to find out that their early certainty was misguided.

I only hope at this point that with all the black racists who decided to inject themselves into this (Jackson, Sharpton, Spike Lee, and our own socialist in chief, to name a few) that ALL the facts will actually be allowed to come out and the truth sought wherever it leads.

Everyone here was speculating based upon the information that was obtained from different sources. Some are going to be right and some will be wrong. Means nothing.

[MattCary]

"Hey, what are you doing around here?"

"On my way back to my Dad's from 7/11; got some skittles and tea. See ya."

"Oh, umm, ok."

How about that for a possibility? Or has all rationality and courtesy gone from the world? Oh, right. Never mind.

[DaveTN]

What reason would Zimmerman have had to swing first? That make no sense. I have not seen anything that indicated Zimmerman started any physical confrontation.

Zimmerman also told police that he and Martin engaged in a violent physical confrontation before he shot the boy

We have no idea who started it; only that it happened.

[MattCary]

I guess "Was polite to some one on the way home from 7/11" doesn't play well on FB and Twitter.

"Some cracker asked me what I was doing and I bashed his head on the sidewalk" gets you much better street cred.

[Mike.357]

Occam's Razor

"when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."

[CQB Elite]

Occam's Razor

"when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."

Yes Master Yoda....

[Links2k]

I guess I’m in the minority here. I’ve been in a few fights in my life and I feel that if you instigate a confrontation that leads to a fight, you fight with your fists. If you get your azz beat; so be it, you learn your lesson and move on. You don’t instigate a fight and then pull a gun once you figured out you have done something really stupid. Being stupid should hurt.

If he’s isn’t tough enough to do that he needed to stay home on the couch watching TV instead of wondering the streets bothering innocent people. Or at least stayed in his truck and let the people that could handle the situation deal with it.

If the stories of what happened are true, he may legally get off. But he’s still a punk that needed a gun. He’s going to have to answer for what he did no matter what happens. I just think a trial is in order.

You are not alone in your opinion. He bit off more than he could chew then he had to take drastic measures to save his butt.

[Links2k]

I am not sure how Zimmerman instigated a fight. He did not corner Martin, he certainly did not swing first.

I will make an assumption and assume he called out to Martin, maybe asked who he was, what was he doing??? Is that starting a fight?

Did Martin not get away and then confront Zimmerman by hitting him?

If you are on my street, look out of place and I take interest in you are you going to hide and then come up unseen and start wailing on me? And if you do that am I not to defend myself?

Why not stand under a street light and ask me who I am? Talk first. Duh. Keep a distance but talk. Not evade like a criminal.

The more I read and think about this maybe Martin may well have gotten

what was coming to him.

If I'm visiting friends or family and some creep starts asking questions my response will be none of your business. I would prefer that you call the cops. If you can't handle my response let the chips fall where they may.

[Garufa]

I guess I’m in the minority here. I’ve been in a few fights in my life and I feel that if you instigate a confrontation that leads to a fight, you fight with your fists. If you get your azz beat; so be it, you learn your lesson and move on. You don’t instigate a fight and then pull a gun once you figured out you have done something really stupid. Being stupid should hurt.

So you're saying that if you got punched in the face...hard enough to knock you down, then had your head slammed against the ground you would not fight back with whatever means necessary?

Like you would have the foresight and restraint to stop defending and accept a beat-down because you might deserve it?

[Caster]

Well, I wouldn't ever start a fight in the first place, but be danged if I take a beating and not even reach for it. I don't care what some attorney can twist and contort about not having a deadly weapon. If someone starts hitting me, I'm going to put holes in their torso.

[TMF]

So what if he did? If he did does that mean Zimmermen must then allow himself to be beaten to death?

Nope, never said that. I think it's reasonable to assume that Zimmerman WAS in fear of his life IF in fact he was getting beat up. He fits the profile of a weak coward and a 6 ft 2 in football player probably has the confidence to stand up to a coward bully.

The point here is that if he initiated a confrontation then he is liable for the outcome. The fact he was pursuing someone who had done nothing wrong is enough to make most reasonable folk defend themselves if they have the means to do so.

Once again, do you think that if I pick I fight with someone I shouldn't be held liable if I shoot them once I'm in fear of my life?

[Guest mikedwood]

I can't figure out why either of them would start it. If information is correct both were on cell phones almost up until the minute the fight started. There is a huge piece of the puzzle missing.

[Links2k]

So you're saying that if you got punched in the face...hard enough to knock you down, then had your head slammed against the ground you would not fight back with whatever means necessary?

Like you would have the foresight and restraint to stop defending and accept a beat-down because you might deserve it?

I understood him to be saying that he would not be starting a problem where there was not one. SPD must feel like crap knowing that Zimmerman felt that he could do their job better than them. Probably why they never hired him. Job security.

[RobertNashville]

How could you possibly know that? No witnesses that I have heard about yet saw the fight start.

Actually, as the police and DA have basically been accuse of racism and a flubbed investigation, information has been trickling out including information that at least some of the eye-witnesses indicated that Martin attacked Zimmerman from behind as Zimmerman was either heading to his vehicle or getting into it which is one of the reasons the DA didn't think he could get a conviction.

In any case, I don't and never will believe that someone gives up the basic right of self-defense just because "he started it"...I agree and practice that carrying a firearm dictates that we should go out of our way to avoid a conflict but still, defending your life is defending your life...even if Zimmerman was 100% responsible for the start of the physical altercation; he shouldn't have to lay there and die just because Martin isn't willing to stop beating him to death.

[Erik88]

I really have not seen a bit of evidence that Zimmerman did anything wrong.

He was acting as a neighborhood watch.

He saw someone out of place.

He called it in.

He got out of his car to check.

He got his ass beat.

He defended himself.

What am i missing? I see no evidence he threatened Martin, at best/worst only wanted to speak to him.

If I see someone looking out of place where i live I would probably want to know what they were doing there too. Does that earn me an ass whipping?

From the facts as I know them, the aggressor was shot..

this is the most rational post in this entire thread. It's very refreshing.

[Erik88]

How could you possibly know that? No witnesses that I have heard about yet saw the fight start.

the same way you so adamantly believe Zimmerman is guilty. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

[RobertNashville]

Everyone here was speculating based upon the information that was obtained from different sources. Some are going to be right and some will be wrong. Means nothing.

\Maybe it means that people shouldn't jump to conclusions and especially so when most of the information is innuendo coming from people with an agenda supported by a mostly stupid press.

[RobertNashville]

Nope, never said that. I think it's reasonable to assume that Zimmerman WAS in fear of his life IF in fact he was getting beat up. He fits the profile of a weak coward and a 6 ft 2 in football player probably has the confidence to stand up to a coward bully.

The point here is that if he initiated a confrontation then he is liable for the outcome. The fact he was pursuing someone who had done nothing wrong is enough to make most reasonable folk defend themselves if they have the means to do so.

Once again, do you think that if I pick I fight with someone I shouldn't be held liable if I shoot them once I'm in fear of my life?

That's right...I don't think you should be held legally or morally liable if you are truly and have good reason to be in fear for your life and you take action to defend yourself even if you pick a fight with someone. Edited March 29, 2012 by RobertNashville