My responsibilities?

[charlessummers]

My son and I usually frequent the same little mart down the street from our old house every weekend. Usually to pick up a 6-pack of beer for me and soda for him. Sunday, while we were there I noticed two guys there that were acting a little suspicious. They were separated in the store but kept looking at each other while their actions indicated that they were waiting on the other customer and myself to leave. (My son was in the truck... thankfully.)

Anyway, I made my purchase that was asked to show ID for the beer. The store owner (who I was pretty familiar with) wasn't paying much attention to me and was obviously worried about the two other guys in the store, so instead of flashing my license, I showed my HCP. The store owner nodded at me and I completed my transaction and went outside. I didn't leave right away, instead played on my telephone acting like I was texting or something. The guys both went to the counter as soon as I sat down. The owner looked outside, probably thankful that I was still there.

After a few more minutes, the guys finally came out, but looked at me sitting there and said, "Jesus loves you man." I said nothing and finally started my truck to leave. As I continued to watch these two guy walking away, they acted as if they didn't know which direction they wanted to walk. I drove up the street until I was out of their sight and turned around. As I drove past, they were still standing on the corner. They spotted me again, and I just waved. I turned the truck around again to finally see them walking up the hill and away from the store.

I know... long story, but here's my confusion. If these guys would have robbed the store, I understand that my best interest would have been to get their description and let them go. But, if they would have assaulted the owners, either with a gun or whatever, what would my responsibility be? I was already ready to call 911 and had told my son to tell them where we were because I think I would have reacted to help save the owners.

[brent_strong]

Unless you're law enforcement or otherwise trained in handling a situation like that, I'd think you would have a better chance of escalating the situation and doing more harm than good.

[Guest Grubbah]

Its a tricky situation to be in, thats for certain. Under the law you are within your rights to come to the defense of an innocent 3rd party who is in a grave bodily harm / death situation. There are no requirements under the law to do so, but you can legally act.

The last thing you want to do though, as Brent pointed out, is to make things worse. Calling 911 seems like a very good first step, and keep an eye on the situation. What you do beyond that is something that you just have to react to and make the best judgement call you can.

[BlackHawk93]

In the news lately there have been many instances of citizens helping only to be charged. As much as it is in me to help out ANYONE who needs it, after following these outrageous stories of people being arrested for trying to help out another, I think I would lean toward being a good witness and calling 911. Just my 2 cents

[QuietDan]

If the hair is standing up on the back of your neck and if the store owner is concerned, calling the nonemergency number -- or even 911 -- and sharing your concerns with the police is entirely appropriate. There might be a cruiser right around the corner. Who knows? These two may in fact be known to the police already and you'd be doing everyone a favor. Every time I've asked the police if they want the call or not, and they say CALL US.

The threat didn't go away, it just walked up the street toward -- what? -- other victims perhaps. Call the cops, call the cops, call the cops.

In the case you described, you probably foiled a robbery. IMO.

[MiddTennTaco]

Considering the situation if those two men robbed the store and ran out of the building. If you pulled your gun out you would probably be arrested too BEING that NO ONE was in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death as they were fleeing. Confronting them with DEADLY FORCE as they leave will only WORSEN the situation and cause harm that could have been avoided had they been allowed to flee.

Keep in mind that the only time you can display DEADLY FORCE is to DEFEND yourself or third party if they are in IMMEDIATE danger of serious bodily injury or death. If they are running away they present neither unless they were to car jack you and your son. If that happen to me I would never be able to forgive myself for putting my son in danger like that.

I would have kept my distance, called 911 with suspicious activity, and try to be the best witness as possible.

Edited March 20, 2012 by w0lfattack

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'd say you foiled a robbery, too. You did that store owner(?) a favor and came to his aid, but it would never hurt

calling 911 like Quiet Dan said.

[Fallguy]

I know... long story, but here's my confusion. If these guys would have robbed the store, I understand that my best interest would have been to get their description and let them go. But, if they would have assaulted the owners, either with a gun or whatever, what would my responsibility be? I was already ready to call 911 and had told my son to tell them where we were because I think I would have reacted to help save the owners.

If your question is about what legal responsibility you'd have, the answer is None.

[Guest infinity40]

If in your situation my son's safety would be paramount. Leave the premises, sit across the street with the engine running if you want to be a witness. Then if you feel you are in a safe spot with at least two routes of escape should the robbers run out of the store guns blazing, then call 911.

First rule of a gunfight, don't be in one.

[Guest infinity40]

And I agree with 6.8 AR, you probably at least foiled a robbery if not saving the guys life.

And that was a slick move handing him your HCP... Good thinking.

Edited March 20, 2012 by infinity40

[Guest jkintn]

I agree with QuietDan and infinity40. I would have found a safe spot (with ability to witness if deemed safe) to protect my child first, then called the non-emergency or 911 and reported your concerns.

[Guest RCLARK]

Here is a pretty good video that plays out a few possible scenarios.

[charlessummers]

Nice video RCLARK... while I agree my best action was to take no action, I feel lucky that things turned out the way they did. I don't know what I would have done in a different scenario, but I do know that as long as they were running away from a non-violent scene, I would have just called 911 and gave a description. Under NO circumstances would I have used tried to go for a holstered weapon as the guy in the first scene did... but I did already have my gun out (while sitting in my truck). At the time, I didn't want to be completely defenseless, even though I didn't know what, if anything, I was going to have to do.

Next time, I will call 911 and hope that I'm wrong about the whole ordeal.

[Volzfan]

If your question is about what legal responsibility you'd have, the answer is None.

Right!

I don't carry a weapon to try to save the world, only as protection for myself and family/friends who may be with me at any given time.

[JayC]

In the news lately there have been many instances of citizens helping only to be charged. As much as it is in me to help out ANYONE who needs it, after following these outrageous stories of people being arrested for trying to help out another, I think I would lean toward being a good witness and calling 911. Just my 2 cents

In the news where? Not here in TN. You can't take things you read about in NYC, NJ, CA, IL and compare them to here in TN. We have clear cut stand your ground laws... And DA's here often time run away from any case where otherwise law abiding citizens defend themselves or others...

I'll point out we had a teenager shot outside running away from a house where he was playing 'ring and run', the local DA wouldn't charge the adults who shot the teenager citing self defense. Now IANAL but that doesn't seem to qualify as self defense in my book... but the DA knew nobody would convict scared parents for shooting the bad teenager

We might not have the best gun laws here in TN, but DA's know not to go after otherwise law abiding citizens or they won't get re-elected, and we might get upset enough to change the laws.

Frankly, I'd like to see a Texas style after dark trespassing law here in TN....

[BigK]

I love those guys on Best Defense. In all their scenarios they always at least show 1) worst case, 2) better case, 3) best case scenarios. The best case is almost always a way to avoid the situation or avoid anyone getting killed.

[Guest ITGuy]

I love those guys on Best Defense. In all their scenarios they always at least show 1) worst case, 2) better case, 3) best case scenarios. The best case is almost always a way to avoid the situation or avoid anyone getting killed.

Is this a running series? That was a great video and it left me wanting to see more scenarios. Knowledge is power!

[Guest RCLARK]

Go to YouTube and search "best defense Michael Bane". There are several of them. It is a series on Outdoor Channel. Not sure if it's still on or not. My DirectTV package doesn't carry Outdoor anymore.

[Guest ITGuy]

Go to YouTube and search "best defense Michael Bane". There are several of them. It is a series on Outdoor Channel. Not sure if it's still on or not. My DirectTV package doesn't carry Outdoor anymore.

Much appreciated. I think I may just have to pick up the whole season.