Concerned about parking lot confrontation

[Volphin]

Lately I've noted an increase in panhandling and such in busy retail center parking lots like Wally World and Kroger. I have been approached probably 8 times this year and my GF has been around 5. Most of them are just scam artists bumming a couple of bucks with some sob story. I never give them anything, and when I can, notify store security.

It happened again last night at the Kroger on Middlebrook. As I once again turned the dude away, I checked my surroundings. If I ever had to fire my weapon it will hit my intended target, but the projectile would most likely carry through to impact someone's car or worse, an innocent person. I keep replaying it in my head trying to find the right angle to eliminate this scenario. These things typically go down very quickly and it would be next to impossible to find the right angle.

I know I am probably over thinking this, but if I discharge, beyond my target is my responsibility too and I take it seriously. Thought I'd open it up for discussion.

[TMF]

I wouldn't sweat it. If you have to fire in self defense you'll be so tuned up that you're not going to consider much other than eliminating the threat. Besides, bums aren't going to take it to the next level when they know there is an unlimited amount of suckers willing to donate money to their habit. If you did have to pull your pistol on one you're gonna see nothing but the dust of them heading in the other direction.

I've spent a bit of time in Bum Meccas such as Seattle, Portland and DC. This has given me experience from having several hundred bum encounters. I've learned that being very aggressive in tone, language and body posture will end encounters ricky-tick. They know that they aren't getting anything from me no matter what they say and they get the impression that if they continue I'm likely to bounce their head off the pavement.

Edited March 19, 2012 by TMF 18B

[Jonnin]

A car would make an excellent backstop. If you life is in danger and you perform a clean shoot and cause property damage to an empty vehicle, so be it. Better to not, of course, but if it happens, it happens. A parked, empty car is no big deal. An innocent customer or someone on the road 200 yards away, those are your concerns. Whatever else happens, hitting an innocent is not good and must be avoided.... if that means you blow a hole in a lexus, well better than a grandma or a kid or anyone else.

[Guest jkintn]

Damn beggars are getting annoying in parking lots. My wife described a very strange situation to me recently where she saw a potential confrontation coming but was able to get herself and two kids in the car and car locked before the beggar got close. Fortunately she was paying attention to her surroundings and not yapping on her cell phone like I see so many others (men and women) doing walking through parking lots dragging kids and fumbling for keys.

The only good thing is she's now considering obtaining her HCP.

[Seabeejason]

I have had a lot of people walk up with these cards claiming that they are deaf and asking for $2.00. It has happened twice in the Alcoa Wal-Mart and once at a Maryville car wash. I now find myself wondering if these people are faking it to get cash off unsuspecting people. I gave them all money, so it has worked on me.

[Oh Shoot]

.... If I ever had to fire my weapon it will hit my intended target, but the projectile would most likely carry through to impact someone's car or worse, an innocent person.

Not that I have any first hand experience in the matter, but unless you're carrying a centerfire rifle type handgun, the odds of most any COM handgun round exiting with enough velocity to hurt someone else seems quite low indeed. And of course, you're going to hit COM, right?

But seriously, if you're using something that is proven likely to do so, you might want to reconsider caliber or bullet type, since if your projectile ain't staying with the purp then it's not expending all of its energy on him either.

Just one way to look at it perhaps. Another is, you can only control one thing at a time -- and if becomes a reasonable likelihood of life or death you pretty much need to deal with that first or the rest becomes suddenly quite non sequitur, eh?

- OS

Edited March 20, 2012 by OhShoot

[Erik88]

It happened again last night at the Kroger on Middlebrook. As I once again turned the dude away

Was it black guy around 40 years old who claims his car is sitting down the block with a flat tire? He hit me up for $12 for fix-a-flat at the Walgreens across the street. For some reason I'll never understand I gave him a few bucks. A few months after that he approached me at the Pet Smart near West Town. He started to give me the exact same story. I reminded him that he had given me the same story a few months before that.

He apparently makes his rounds through Knoxville scamming people. What a P.O.S.

[QuietDan]

Was it black guy around 40 years old who claims his car is sitting down the block with a flat tire? He hit me up for $12 for fix-a-flat at the Walgreens across the street. For some reason I'll never understand I gave him a few bucks. A few months after that he approached me at the Pet Smart near West Town. He started to give me the exact same story. I reminded him that he had given me the same story a few months before that.

He apparently makes his rounds through Knoxville scamming people. What a P.O.S.

If so, where else in the universe would something like this come out? I love this forum.

[Fallguy]

Not that I have any first hand experience in the matter, but unless you're carrying a centerfire rifle type handgun, the odds of most any COM handgun round exiting with enough velocity to hurt someone else seems quite low indeed. And of course, you're going to hit COM, right?

But seriously, if you're using something that is proven likely to do so, you might want to reconsider caliber or bullet type, since if your projectile ain't staying with the purp then it's not expending all of its energy on him either.

Just one way to look at it perhaps. Another is, you can only control one thing at a time -- and if becomes a reasonable likelihood of life or death you pretty much need to deal with that first or the rest becomes suddenly quite non sequitur, eh?

- OS

This is sort of what I thought....

[BrasilNuts]

I have had a lot of people walk up with these cards claiming that they are deaf and asking for $2.00. It has happened twice in the Alcoa Wal-Mart and once at a Maryville car wash. I now find myself wondering if these people are faking it to get cash off unsuspecting people. I gave them all money, so it has worked on me.

You need to go to Walmart sporting goods and buy one of those mini air horns to keep in your back pocket.

Act like you're getting your wallet and blow it behind your back.

If they don't jump give 'em $2.

Was it black guy around 40 years old who claims his car is sitting down the block with a flat tire? He hit me up for $12 for fix-a-flat at the Walgreens across the street. For some reason I'll never understand I gave him a few bucks. A few months after that he approached me at the Pet Smart near West Town. He started to give me the exact same story. I reminded him that he had given me the same story a few months before that.

He apparently makes his rounds through Knoxville scamming people. What a P.O.S.

This happened to my mom at the Walmart in Oak ridge.

She reached in the bed of her truck and tossed him a 3/4 full can of fix-a-flat.

She said the look on the guys face was priceless as he just kinda mumbled thanks and walked off.

Edited March 20, 2012 by BrasilNuts

[BlackHawk93]

I saw one of the beggars the other day at WalMart in the boro. He was talking on a cell phone early in the morning before traffic got bad. His sign said he had lost all his money and didn't have any money for food or clothes. Apparently he can afford an iPhone though. They need to get off their a@* and get a job like everybody else.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

If I ever had to fire my weapon it will hit my intended target, but the projectile would most likely carry through to impact someone's car or worse, an innocent person.

Are you going to use FMJ rounds or what?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Tell them to leave you alone. Don't pay them any attention. Walk on by. They usually

look for someone else if they see too much work in asking you for anything. Always

be aware of your surroundings.

If something goes down, you're past the point of worrying about collateral damage if your

life is now on the line, aren't you? If it is that crowded an area, and a bum tries to start something

that threatens your life, your choices were made by him.

I would give consideration to where I am and what time of day I'm there if it's that dangerous

an area. I would also tell the Kroger manager his business will start to fall off if he doesn't

deal with the riff-raff in the damned parking lot. He should call the police. Anyway, Publix is a

pretty good grocery store, too.

[Makiaveli]

I have had a lot of people walk up with these cards claiming that they are deaf and asking for $2.00. It has happened twice in the Alcoa Wal-Mart and once at a Maryville car wash. I now find myself wondering if these people are faking it to get cash off unsuspecting people. I gave them all money, so it has worked on me.

Cover your mouth with your hand and say something offensive and see if they react. By offensive, I mean the nastiest thing you can say given any other people around who might hear and that you are comfortable with. Learned this from a buddy of mine when I lived in Chatt. Cheaper than an air horn and just about as effective.

[98SS1LWEE]

You need to go to Walmart sporting goods and buy one of those mini air horns to keep in your back pocket.

Act like you're getting your wallet and blow it behind your back.

If they don't jump give 'em $2.

This happened to my mom at the Walmart in Oak ridge.

She reached in the bed of her truck and tossed him a 3/4 full can of fix-a-flat.

She said the look on the guys face was priceless as he just kinda mumbled thanks and walked off.

You're the man...Just sayin'

[98SS1LWEE]

Okay, had my laugh, now to the serious part. You should always be prepared for the consequences, and yes, hitting a child, grandma, dog, family member, etc... is a problem, and your responsibility. The terrible part about my job is, I've weighed most those options and 9 times out of 10, i'll take the shot if it means my life's in danger. I can live with the consequences. The key here is knowing that you're trained enough to take the best avenue of approach and do it without hesitating or thinking about it. Take some classes, read, PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!!! Can't emphasize enough, dont care who you are or how Bad A you think you are....PRACTICE for the unthinkable. i don't mean just drawing down, I mean reactions, scenarios, speech, body movements, etc...

[Guest TnRebel]

only three words , exemption , expansion, expansion !!!

[Guest Lowbuster]

I practice close draw to side of my body aiming firearm for groin area or stomach so round would hopefully go into ground or asphalt or explode on concrete. Saw this on best defense. Shoot me in the groin I probably off myself.

[Oh Shoot]

only three words , exemption , expansion, expansion !!!

??

[chances R]

I practice close draw to side of my body aiming firearm for groin area or stomach so round would hopefully go into ground or asphalt or explode on concrete. Saw this on best defense. Shoot me in the groin I probably off myself.

This and hollow points to hopefully minimize 'shoot throughs".

[TMF]

I practice close draw to side of my body aiming firearm for groin area or stomach so round would hopefully go into ground or asphalt or explode on concrete. Saw this on best defense. Shoot me in the groin I probably off myself.

A round to the pelvis might not kill the attacker but it will definitely put him down.

[Makiaveli]

only three words , exemption , expansion, expansion !!!

??

I 2nd OS's comment.

[Oh Shoot]

I 2nd OS's comment.

Guessing now that he mistyped "expansion" the first time.

However, expansion ain't everything. Minimum penetration is just as important. A shallow wound may be gory, but not very effective. (think frangible, birdshot, .22 stingers, etc).

Old adage: you want expansion, but you need penetration.

- OS

Edited March 30, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest Torrin]

Old adage: you want expansion, but you need penetration.

TWSS

Sorry, someone has to say it.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Torrin

[Oh Shoot]

TWSS...

Yep, always sounded lewd; that's why I can remember it.