Best guns to stock up on

[mikegideon]

The most dangerous part isn't a problem with most rifle calibers. The cases are usually too full to double charge them.

[LI0NSFAN]

That is what I heard, I just dont think I have the attention span to sit there that long.

[Dolomite_supafly]

yea if you bought all 5 at once, you might get a deal. Or if you got your own FFL. I suspect the above S&W is probably $450 for the dealer to buy. It should be possible under some circumstances to pull it off for your price, if you worked hard to find a deal for a bulk purchase, moreso if you bought all of your guns at the one shop.

Yes, the ar15 has had years of service. The mauser was used from the 1890's to the 1970s across the entire world but I don't want one of those when society collapses as my go-to gun. The musket was proven for 200 years or so as well. I do not want a musket. Years of service isnt the point, in other words. If I had to grab one rifle and book it on foot, I would grab my consumer grade AR, hands down. But my gun has not been "proven" in battle. The design, yes. The actual gun by this manufacturer? It has not. Most likely it will last my lifetime without major failure of any parts, but, I cannot be quite as sure as I could be if I somehow got an AR from a military supply depot. That was really my only point -- I consider the commercial variety AR to be no better than a mini 14 in terms of shots fire before breakage, in other words.

I was told by the ATF you cannot use your FFL to increase your private firearm collection. I was going to apply back in the late 90's for my FFL to take advantage of the dealer pricing. During the discussion they asked why I wanted an FFL and I said to buy guns for me cheaper. At that point they said it was not allowed. Now I guess if you were to have a inventory when you allowed you FFL to lapse they would stay in your possesion.

As far as AR's and durability there are a few things I consider to be of the upmost importance to longevity. A properly hardened bolt is the most important. And the other would be forged aluminum parts under the annodizing. The process of forging hardens the aluminum making it more durable. Annodizing also adds to the longevity but once you are through the annodizing the forging helps. Cast parts are about the worst and biullet isn't much better. Billet is machined from a single block of aluminum that is not forged in most cases. And when you wear through the annodizing the aluminum wears slower in a forged lower than a billet or cast lower. People say a billet lower has better tolerances and that was the case probably 10 years ago. But now with everything being CNC forged lowers are just as precise as billet lowers. Forged lowers that have tolerance issues is because of the equipment used and not the fact they are forged.

And if you look at the Sport it has both of those requirements covered. It also has melonite treatment which is leaps and bounds above chrome lined. The reason why chrome lined is milspec is because it was the best a decade or two ago. And the reason why melonite isn't milspec is the gov't process to change the milspec standard requires time and money. And just because something isn't milspec doesn't mean it is bad, just that is is not what is part of the standard. I would be willing to bet that the melonite treatment or some other treatment similar to it will replace chrome lined at some point.

There are a lot of high end AR's that do not meet milspec. One that comes to mind is Noveske's barrels. The barrels are more durable, get more FPS and are more accurate but they do not meet milspec. The reason is they are stainless steel and are polygon rifled, both of which are not in the standard know as milspec. Same thing goes for the builders of monolithic uppers. They are better and more durable than any milspec upper but are not called for in the milspec standard.

Milspec is just a standard for manufactuers to follow to ensure the soldiers get a gun that meets a MINIMUM standard. There are plenty of better weapons out there that do not meet milspec.

For me the guns that are my must haves are several AR's. One in 223, one in 9mm and one in 22 lr. These calibers are going to cover anything I will need to do to survive most situations. I also have a shotgun and a bolt gun for shooting at long ranges. I also have several pistols that I carry or use regularly but they would be secondary weapons to the AR's. A pistol is just to fight to a rifle and a rifle is to fight to a secure location. And as I said before I have a supressor for when I need to shoot without alerting others. And if I run out of 22 lr I can load subsonic 223 that is just as effective.

In the end I do not plan on going anywhere. I will stay put and protect what I have.

Dolomite

[98SS1LWEE]

WHen it comes to the necessity of this one, price won't be my deciding factor on ammunition, it will be abundance. SO if Hornady or Remington or omeone is stock piling .17, then by golly, i'm plinkin cans and aiming for the tiny kill spot! SO with that said...It would go like this for me

Handgun: Walther P22 for small caliber, and XD, Glock, or PT series, depending on ammo selection and what's in the safe

Shotgun-This will more than likely be varied since we havereload capabilities, so in case that's not an option we'll save soem time and jsut say 12GA and go with a Benelli M4

Rifle: I'm thinking 30-06 and .556 will be easiest to come by for hunters and military, so prob grab an M4 from work and maybe a Remingotn 700 for the long shots

Sorry, cant' type, spell check takes too long,

[LI0NSFAN]

Found 2 used 357 revos 3 left. got a great deal. 500 combined with some ammo. Had to travel to get them but used it to see family. Plus it was a private sale so 2 less to raise eyebrows. I got a good lead on a lever action 357 I might have that by the end of the week. If this keeps up I might slide in under 6000 for all 5 of us. looks like I can get more ammo.

Edited March 27, 2012 by climberscott_1999

[Dolomite_supafly]

I would shy away from any semi auto 22 pistol that is not steel. I called Sig about the Mosquito and was told the life span of the gun is 10K to 15K rounds. They said after that they are pretty much falling apart even with proper maintanence. It is probably because they use a pot metal slide that gets beat out of shape over time. And guns with aluminum are not much better. I have had two seperate PacLites for my Ruger. The first one mushroomed the breechface to a point he barrel liner was sticking out. It was bad enough that Tactical Solutions replaced it no questions asked. The replacement has less than 3,000 rounds through it and I have quit shooting it for the same reason. Oh and the threads are not concentric to the bore, took a few baffle strikes to figure that out.

The only durable 22 semi auto pistol I would trust as a lifetime gun is a Ruger MK pistol because they are all steel.

And for those of you who think 10K is a lot, I shoot that about every 3 months. So realiztically that Sig I almost bought would have been dead inside of 6 months.

Dolomite

Edited March 28, 2012 by Dolomite_supafly

[LI0NSFAN]

Dolomite- That is exactly why I no longer shoot my walther. I would only trust my MK to last longer than a year the way I shoot. I go to the range 4-5 times a month and shoot probably 600-700 22 each time so I would toast 10000 rounds in less then 6 mo. I buy my 22 in bulk of 10000 at a time so I also think 10000 isnt that much at all.

[Jonnin]

The most dangerous part isn't a problem with most rifle calibers. The cases are usually too full to double charge them.

Its all about the powder. For almost any pistol load, you can pick a powder that a second charge will overflow it if worried about this issue. Rifles usually cannot be set up to overcharge but someone determined to blow themself up can find a way.

[gjohnsoniv]

Its all about the powder. For almost any pistol load, you can pick a powder that a second charge will overflow it if worried about this issue. Rifles usually cannot be set up to overcharge but someone determined to blow themself up can find a way.

If it can be done, someone will do it. Edited March 28, 2012 by gjohnsoniv

[LI0NSFAN]

I have had a couple people ask me to keep informed on how the search is going. 2 of them don't think I can come in at budget.

set 1- rossi revolver $225 used private sale, Mossberg in 243 $200 used private sale, Ruger $175 used otd lgs.

set 2- rossi revolver $225 used private sale, Ruger 10/22 $160 used private sale

set 3 Ruger 10/22 $180 used private sale

set 4

set 5

I am not having that hard of a time finding the lever action, just trying to decide on which maker. I have made my goal is to buy my guns at a certain price and if I see it less I get it. On July first what ever I have not found used or at a really good deal I will go to my LGS and order. Here is my price list

Revolver $250 or less

Lever action $400 or less

Mossberg in 243 $200 or less

Ruger 10/22 $190 or less

I do not expect to get all my guns at these prices but I have gotten several so far and if I can get them all at this price I can come in $2500 under the gun budget which will get alot of ammo.

Edited March 29, 2012 by climberscott_1999

[nightrunner]

Not to throw a wrench in plans, but IMO i wouldnt trust rossi for a shtf gun. I would stick with ruger s&w or colt just my opinion

[LI0NSFAN]

I will probably upgrade those, It was hard to pass up 2 357mags with 300 rounds of ammo for 500. I know a lot of people that have and abuse there Rossi and have never had a problem. I just wanted to get the package together sooner rather than later. I would rather not get caught with my pants down because I was being a gun snob. Not that getting a better gun is being snobish but not getting one for a price you can easily sell for the same price later if needed is dumb. A lesser 357 is better than not having one.

Edited March 30, 2012 by climberscott_1999

[res308]

Revolver and lever gun in .357 is what I was going to suggest as well.

[Mark@Sea]

.357 Lever guns

If you can, get them through this fellow. I've dealt with him. He's good people, knows the 92 inside and out.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks Mark

Those Rossi lever actions look good. Would one tend to have better confidence in durability of the lever guns versus Rossi revolvers? Am not slamming rossi revolvers, though would be inclined to get a S&W or Ruger. Don't have experience with Rossi except a friend had a Rossi .357 revolver that was difficult-eject after firing, but maybe you can't blame that on the gun. Though annoying.

Was thinking about the topic but nothing profound. Had been thinking it would be nice to get a 16" lever gun in stainless to complement the 20" Henry. Noticed the 16" Rossi lists 8 + 1 capacity and the 20" Henry is 10 + 1 capacity. For ordinary sporting purposes perhaps that matters not at all. Perhaps doesn't even matter for home defense, but it is an interesting trade-off to consider. A lighter-easier-to-maneuver carbine versus a longer-heavier mid-length rifle with higher capacity. Was kinda surprising at first, that losing 4" of barrel/mag length would only lose 2 rounds, though after thinking about it, two .357 Mag bullets measure about 3.2" end-to-end and it makes perfect sense.

Noticed something else-- The identical Henry's in .44 Mag and .357 Mag both have the same 10 + 1 capacity. Never had a .44 Mag, but looked up the ammo OAL. Both .357 Mag and .44 Mag have virtually identical typical OAL, so it makes perfect sense that the capacity would be the same on same-sized tube-fed rifles. It is interesting inasmuch that pistols holding larger calibers usually have to trade-off with lower capacity. And for instance a .308 semiauto rifle will typically have lower mag capacity than a .223 semiauto. So that is kinda neat that the .44 Mag and .357 Mag lever guns do not have such a capacity trade-off.

Got to looking at velocity of equivalent weight bullets. Looking in the reloading book, .357 Mag 180 gn XTP bullet looks good for a max of maybe 1200 fps in a 6" barrel. Higher vel in a rifle of course. Looks like 10mm auto will also max out in the ballpark of 1200 fps with 180 gn bullet. But the .44 Mag (8" barrel) looks good to go maxing up near 1900 fps with a 180 gn bullet! Dang!

Maybe after finding a second .357 revolver-- Might start thinkin about .44 Mag.

[LI0NSFAN]

I thought about going with the 44 mag but the cost and no one but me in the group like the feel of the 44 mag. If I get just me the 44 now I have to stock up another cal.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

You will like it when you get a .44, Lester.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I thought about going with the 44 mag but the cost and no one but me in the group like the feel of the 44 mag. If I get just me the 44 now I have to stock up another cal.

Yep. I'm pretty cheap and would feel guilty shooting .357 mag very much if I couldn't reload it. Tends to be expensive off the shelf but not real expensive to reload. Haven't priced .44 Mag ammo but most likely the same deal. Of course, the 9mm, .357 and occasional .380 I reload, the bullet costs the most, and then the primer, and the powder cost is negligable in comparison. With more lead in the .44 bullets, they would cost a little more, but they use so much powder that maybe powder cost in .44 would start rivaling the primer cost? Haven't costed it out.

You will like it when you get a .44, Lester.

Thanks 6.8 Might be awhile, but sounds like something to add to the list.

[Jonnin]

Trouble with a 44 is you shoud probably not use something ultra hot (case is too empty). So yea, powder is going to be in the 7 to 20 grain range depending on how stout you want it and what powder it is. My current batch, in an attempt to use up some power pistol that I have, is 13.5 grains of pp with a 165 cast boolit. Which has been an aggravating work up load from 10 grains starting, and it finally cycles the gun at 13.5. That took a while to figure out.

[Mark@Sea]

You might be able to give me a Rossi revolver, I wouldn't buy one. The rifle is a whole different beast. When new they are stiff - if you know what you are doing, or get some decent instructions (see Steve Youngs site) the bearing surfaces are easily polished. I would suggest replacing the plastic follower with a steel part - that is inexpensive and reasonably easy to do.

Mine is slick, feeds well, ejects positively unless I don't work the action with any authority at all. Longer 38s function well too. For home defense, I'd much rather have the easily maneuvered carbine. Even with the steel buttplate, in this caliber kick is negligible - easily handled by those of smaller stature. Lightweight to boot, and if you do have to bug out, an old cowboy gun doesn't get the same negative reaction as an EBR.

The 92 action (JMB, of course) is super strong. No problems there at all.

And yep, even the 38 gets a pretty respectable boost from a 16 inch tube. It wouldn't be my first choice past 100, 150 yards, but my house isn't that big. Put a soft point or hollowpoint in it, you won't get any complaints from customers.

I bought this rifle for my wife. It supplanted the M4 that she decided she didn't trust. This one was her baby until she discovered the M1 carbine, so now it sits on my rack again. I don't need it - but it is a lot of fun.

You ever get up this way, you're welcome to take it for a spin.

[Mark@Sea]

I thought I remembered reading it, and I just dug it up.

Lester, forget the wimpy 44 mag. Go with a .454, that'll get those varmints. How about a 325 grain hard cast bullet at 2200+ fps?

^{Model 92 in 454 Magnum}

Edited March 31, 2012 by Mark@Sea

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks Mark for the good advice on Rossi's.

Thanks for the interesting article on the lever gun in .454 mag. Interesting is Mr. Kelly's comment, "Recoil????? AB-SO-LUTE-LY!" Bet the feller ain't kidding. If you were to load it with a 180 gn or lighter bullet, wonder if you would get in trouble with NASA if an occasional high round accidentally goes into low earth orbit?

[TN Outlaw]

My AK47 Wasr-10/63

Taurus PT92 AFS

Mosin Nagant 91/30

and Mossberg 12 gauge Pump

[mikegideon]

AR-15 Carbine #1: Go to Zombie Gun

AR-15 Carbine #2: Backup #1

Mini 14 Carbine: Backup #2

AR-15 .458 SOCOM: Tough Zombies

AR-15 24" Rifle: Distant Zombies

Rem 870: Close Zombies

Pistols: Closer Zombies

Marlin 336: Old Zombies

I have more, but who's got the time

Edited April 1, 2012 by mikegideon

[Jonnin]

ok why is a rem 700, a long range bolt gun, for up close zombies? Was this supposed to be a shotgun? My 700 is a 243 (?)