Best guns to stock up on

[Guest HvyMtl]

1- 4 guns under $1600 swappable mags and parts.

2-affordable ammo

3- meet needs of civil unrest

4- Handgun, Carbine in handgun, rifle, 22lr rifle or handgun (no shotguns)

Handgun and Carbine - I would look at a few things here: The Beretta CX4 Carbine and Beratta 92 pistol in 9mm. These are known to be reliable, and the magazines swap between pistol and carbine. They may be too pricey, though.

Hi-Point 9mm Carbine is much less expensive (should be under $300) and is also reliable. Then add a good inexpensive 9mm pistol, like a Ruger P95 (Under $350)

Rifle - I would suggest a common hunting round, as this will improve ammo chances and prices.

A 30-30, Like a standard lever action, such as a Marlin 336 (under $400, even carried at Walmart)

Or a 30.06 bolt action, Mossberg, and Savage have models around $300.

I am hesitant in recommending the Remington 700 series, as they seem to have critical safety issues (firing when safety is released, no finger on trigger.)

As for the 22lr, might as well be a rifle, so you can take down game, and practice rifle shooting with.

Ruger 10/22 or other Branded 22lr should do (under $200)

So to recap, If you go Hi-Point Carbine, Ruger P95, Marlin 336, A Mossberg or Savage 30.06, and a Ruger 10/22, you are around $1550 with 5 guns, instead of 4.

I would pick either the 30-30 or 30.06, the price drops to about $1250, and I would use some of the savings to add a good scope on the hunting rifle.

[mikegideon]

The military is not rushing into battle with consumer grade ARs either. Some are better than others, but the ARs that are available to the public (in general, the build your own or brand X's take on it new made stuff) are not flawless, ultra rugged military hardware. Not saying a cheap alternative is any better, but calling bubba's home-built AR "proven" is also not exactly accurate. The web has a fair number of discussions on consumer grade AR failures from problems eating the cheap steel ammo to complex gas piston aggravations and more. In general, most are pretty good, but proven in battle? Not this stuff. If the criteria is battle proven, the only way to get it is milsurp, and that probably means a real AK or SKS or similar 50 year old weapon.

The mini 14 is as proven as the consumer grade AR. It is, after all, a M1 garand, a proven design to be sure.

Yeah. I bought Chinese BCG's from Walmart. Their MPI testing isn't as good as Colt. because they only look at half the particles. Works better with my Chinese ammo. My receivers... they were made by one of the four "consumer" manufacturers, like LMT.

The Mini 14 has seen real service. I have one too. It lives in the safe. The Garand variants weren't in service near as long as the AR-15.

[LI0NSFAN]

Just to be THAT guy that keeps the AR discussion going. If anyone can get me 5 AR's of quality that are ready to shoot (don't need a scope just sights) for under 3000 let me know. That would take out any basement builds, and would like all five to be same maker. That is why the ARs were taken out of my situation. If money were no object here is my list.

1. Kimber 1911

2 Colt Ar-15

3. Armalite AR-10

4.CZ512 in 22lr

I own or have shot all of these and are my favorite for that catagory. I just don't have the money to fund that project. I think it comes out to almost 5000 per person.

[mikegideon]

I understand budgets (and false economy). I was just saying why some are so insistent on the AR platform. Everybody has the right to pick their own poison.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Hard to beat the S&W Sport. It has many features found on guns costing twice as much.

I will just give you a quick run down of the Sport and why it is such a great gun.

1. The barrel is a 5R rifled barrel.

5R barrels are known for their accuracy regardless of caliber. For whatever reason they just shoot and shoot well. It also increases the velocity by virtue of how the rifling is laid out.

2. The barrel is Melonite treated.

Melonite treatments are far better than any chrome lining as far as hardness and durability. It also offers an exception amount of corrosion resistance. It is more than just a surface coating like chrome, it actually treats the metal and goes subsurface.

3. The bolt is properly heat treated.

This is very important for the long term durability of the firearm. It ensures the headspace will remain in spec longer than those bolts that are not heat treated properly. Poorly heat treated bolts will either wear prematurely or break from being too brittle.

4. It has a barrel twist rate of 8

This twist rate allows you to fire the heaviest bullets that can be fed from a magazine, up to 80 grains. And because it isn't a 7 twist (like most others out there) you can also fire the lightweight varmint style bullets without fear of the jackets seperating.

5. It comes ready to fire.

It comes with a Magpul rear sight while most competitors, even those 100's of dollars more expensive, do not. The sights have been proven for several years now both by those in harms way as well as the weekend shooter. It also includes a Magpul magazine which has also been proven for seveal years now.

6. It is built to the same specs as all other AR's

This means you can upgrade and swap parts to build a gun that suits your wants or needs. And because it is an AR most of the work can be done by the owner and if it is a milspec part it WILL fit.

7. The price

In reality if any other maker were to offer the same features as the Sport has they would be asking 100's of dollars more. The 5R barrel and Melonite treatment were once only offered on high end guns. And included in the price is a warranty that is among the best in the industry.

Up until about 6 months ago the Sport flew under my radar. It wasn't until I was asked about them that I took a serious look at them. I have since become a huge fan of them and recommend them to anyone who wants a quality gun that doesn't break the bank. And if I were in the market for one I would buy a Sport.

Dolomite

ETA: I see them for under $650 at shows all the time. I bet a dealer would be able to give you a deal on 5 that came in under $3,000 or at least real close.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Dolomite_supafly

[mikegideon]

I was hoping you would chime in on the Sport. I got to fondle one on Saturday. I may have even shot it. Don't remember. I was in a shooting frenzy

Edited March 26, 2012 by mikegideon

[LI0NSFAN]

Dolomite- as usual you are a wealth of knowlege. I did look into the S&W sport. I did learn somethings from your post so thank you. I do like them and talked to some dealers. I had one dealer say he does not discount AR's no matter what because they will always sell at retail or higher. This is a dealer that usually has them at that price at the shows. He also said that he can slap a cheap red dot on them and get people to pay over 800 because it is ready to shoot. He says AR's and Glocks will always sell no matter what so why give a discount. that was a part of the reason to go with the 357, more dealers are willing to cut a deal on guns that do not sell as fast. All that being said I put the sport on my short list of guns to get after everything cools off from this project. As a side note, how many guns can you get in a few months time before the TBI is at your door

Edited March 26, 2012 by climberscott_1999

[Jonnin]

yea if you bought all 5 at once, you might get a deal. Or if you got your own FFL. I suspect the above S&W is probably $450 for the dealer to buy. It should be possible under some circumstances to pull it off for your price, if you worked hard to find a deal for a bulk purchase, moreso if you bought all of your guns at the one shop.

Yes, the ar15 has had years of service. The mauser was used from the 1890's to the 1970s across the entire world but I don't want one of those when society collapses as my go-to gun. The musket was proven for 200 years or so as well. I do not want a musket. Years of service isnt the point, in other words. If I had to grab one rifle and book it on foot, I would grab my consumer grade AR, hands down. But my gun has not been "proven" in battle. The design, yes. The actual gun by this manufacturer? It has not. Most likely it will last my lifetime without major failure of any parts, but, I cannot be quite as sure as I could be if I somehow got an AR from a military supply depot. That was really my only point -- I consider the commercial variety AR to be no better than a mini 14 in terms of shots fire before breakage, in other words.

[mikegideon]

Here's my thing about the AR. If it breaks, you can fix it in a few minutes with the right parts. I don't understand the basement build fear, when It was designed for the easiest field repair work you can find in any gun. I can swap a broken bolt or extractior in a few minutes. FCG parts are about the same. You gotta kaboom one to kill it.

I have way over 1000 rounds (closer to 2000) through my "basement" build, and it hasn't malfunctioned once. It's a lot like my Glocks. If stuff gets real, it's the one I'll grab. That, and a 1/16" punch so I can fix it.

[Jonnin]

Agreed 100%.

I can answer your question about the fear of a basement builder.

How many ARs have you made? (typical answer: more than 10).

What happened to the first one (or couple)? (typical answer: sold off or torn apart for parts).

Not heard: "this is my first one, its perfect, flawless, so I never built another one!".

[mikegideon]

My first one. Made quite a few changes due to upgrades, but it's the same one. I'm not saying everybody should do their own. It's stupid simple to me. But, I do complicated stuff for a living.

[LI0NSFAN]

I believe in alway believe the LCD (lowest common denominator) is who did it. I have seen guys at the range that have no buisness building guns struggleing with there AR. I have gone to buy an AR that a guy built himself and he could not even get it to cycle dummy rounds. I just would rather trust my gun to be built by the factory and usually they have some sort of warranty. I will be practicing with these so I will find and defects and get them fixed before I store them. I don't think a guy who has built more than 10 as a basement builder. to me a basement builder is the guy that gets cheap parts to resell the gun for 2 time what he has in it ie. the PSA stripped lower with a delton kit on it that was for sale no another site for $950. I don't have anything against that combo for 500 but 950 is much. Guys that builds a decent AR with good parts are hard to find at a fair price. I know how to build an AR, I have done my share and I just could not find a set up for under 600 that I like better than my mini.

[LI0NSFAN]

Just relized that all this AR talk is moot as I am going with a 243cal. Oh well it is a good discussion.

[mikegideon]

I believe in alway believe the LCD (lowest common denominator) is who did it. I have seen guys at the range that have no buisness building guns struggleing with there AR. I have gone to buy an AR that a guy built himself and he could not even get it to cycle dummy rounds. I just would rather trust my gun to be built by the factory and usually they have some sort of warranty. I will be practicing with these so I will find and defects and get them fixed before I store them. I don't think a guy who has built more than 10 as a basement builder. to me a basement builder is the guy that gets cheap parts to resell the gun for 2 time what he has in it ie. the PSA stripped lower with a delton kit on it that was for sale no another site for $950. I don't have anything against that combo for 500 but 950 is much. Guys that builds a decent AR with good parts are hard to find at a fair price. I know how to build an AR, I have done my share and I just could not find a set up for under 600 that I like better than my mini.

Yep. You probably need some mechanical aptitude, and you don't need to buy cheesey parts. You also need the right tools.All my guns work right, not just the AR's. I don't have a basement. My gun room is next to my electronics room.

[mikegideon]

Just relized that all this AR talk is moot as I am going with a 243cal. Oh well it is a good discussion.

Yep. A .243 will slap the bejeesus out of something. I think mine holds 5 rounds.

[LI0NSFAN]

That means you know what you are doing and I would trust a gun that you build. I went to a my friends brothers house for a BBQ and the guy had a table next to his recliner where he was building an AR. He said they are so easy its like sleeping. He sells them for an absurb profit after he shoots them for a while. I think that is how most home builders are, especially the ones that build just to sell.

[LI0NSFAN]

yeah, I was not knowledgable about the 243 before starting this thread. That was part of starting this was to explore other options. After it being suggested I went out and got one to try out. I set up milk jugs with jello in them to see what happens. The 223 did a decent job at 100yds, the 243 obliterated the jug as did the 308 but the 243 was way easier to handle. So after shooting 100 rounds or so I found I liked the 243. I have always hunted with a 30-30 or 308 (hunt up in Michigan and the deer are alot bigger) I think I am going to bring my new toy up to hunt with this year.

[mikegideon]

You know you can get an AR-10 chambered in .243, right?

[LI0NSFAN]

I was not aware of that. I think at this point you are just looking for a fight. Who makes one?

Sweet mother alive they are the same as the 308's. Thats a budget buster. I will stick with my used one I picked up for 300.

Edited March 26, 2012 by climberscott_1999

[mikegideon]

DPMS did. I think there may be more. It's a necked down .308, so I think the only change is the barrel. Yeah, I was poking you a little

[LI0NSFAN]

I looked at the armalites and they were a little more than the same in 308. I am guessing the the DPMS is aound 1300-1500 as well. Its always fun to stoke the fire.

[mikegideon]

The AR-10 platform is expensive. That's one thing I don't have. I would expect them to be a little pricier with a special barrel.

[LI0NSFAN]

I got an Armalite AR-10 at a reasonable rate of 1100 with no scope. I just had to have it for some reason. while it is fun, feeding is not. the 243 looks like it will be that way as well but with the 800 I saved I can buy more ammo

[mikegideon]

So, you can probably move it to .243 with just a barrel change. May be worth it to you. You KNOW how to deal with the cost of feeding. Start here...

http://www.amazon.com/The-ABCs-Of-Reloading-Definitive/dp/1440213968/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332798278&sr=8-1

[LI0NSFAN]

I could probably change the barrel, I might do that. I do not trust myself enough to load. I distract easy.