Best guns to stock up on

[Dolomite_supafly]

Just to clarify we shot the 357Sig through a 40 barrel. It was by accident but it really got me to thinking about the usefullness of a 40 if in a emergency you could shoot 357sig if thats all you had.

Did it cycle? It would seem like ti wouldn't. I also suspect that the velocity would be way, way down. Not to mention accuracy that would make it hard to hit a human at 10 yards.

Dolomite

[Guest ochretoe]

So many good suggestions, but I have yet to see the most reliable,

Economical and versital option mentioned.

The single-shot break action 12 ga.

Cost - H&Rs run about 130 new.

Reliability - doesn't get much more reliable and can even be used as a muzzle loader.

Versitility - Adapters will let you shoot everything from 22 to 45 colt. If you are realy hard up

all you need is a primer, black powder and rocks.

Cons - Slow reloads and poor acuracy with adapters.

The good heavily outweighs the bad and is why one is in my SHTF supply.

I agree with all of this but a single shot H&R 12 ga. is about the most painful gun I have ever shot. Mine was so bad I gave it away. A couple lbs. of black powder, shot and ball and a flintlock smoothbore and you are way ahead of a single shot shotgun for sustinance. Another plus is you can cut up and use any shotgun shells you find. Just use less smokeless powder. Security is another matter.

[Guest FiddleDog]

What are all these high end guns you guys are talking about. Nearly all mine get dropped, dinged and scratched in their lifetimes. They, after all, are just tools to me. To really find out how reliable your gun is it needs to be used and sometimes abused.

Anyone who has seen my 1911 knows this, it is part stainless, part blue and silver where the bluing is gone. It has been dropped, thrown, and just abused to make sure it will be 100% reliable. And it has been for 3,500 rounds so far. Same goes for every other gun I own with the exception of just a couple. They all wear scars of use and abuse. And because of this I trust my daily use guns 100%, even my AR in 22lr.

Dolomite

"Scars a like badges. Violent vibrant points of history, worn just below the skin, that serve to always remind us. Not only of what we have gone through...but also that we have survived."

Edited April 17, 2012 by FiddleDog

[jgradyc]

This is a great conversation. Thanks for starting it. In my opinion, there are some issues you might want to reconsider. In the spirit of helping out, here is my take.

I understand that you are limited by budget, but you aren't limited to an arbitrary number of four weapons per person or the identical weapons per person. Your budget could be better spent matching the weapons to each person's abilities.

While there is an advantage to identical calibers and magazines, there is no need for 5 identical arsenals. If a gun breaks, you don't have spare parts, so there's no advantage there. Everyone will be practicing with their own gun, so there's really no advantage there either. Just label the bags for each person and match the firearms to the capability of each person. They should use the same ammo and, as much as possible, the same magazines. There's no need for you, as group leader and most experienced, to skimp on your firearms just to ensure that your wife or pre-15-year-olds have an identical weapon. I personally would never consider arming my wife or a 15-year-old with the same weapons I would use.

It's also not necessary for each teenager or the wife to have four weapons, especially two handguns. Kids would be safer with a carbine. Once you step outside the door, every advantage of a handgun goes away except for concealment and the ability to carry comfortably 100% of the time. But if you're already carrying a carbine on a shoulder strap, that last advantage goes away, too, so why would kids need two handguns?

That said, your choices are excellent: 357 wheel gun, 10/22, .243, and Ruger (9mm?). A 357 can be loaded with 38 for lighter shooters and it's a heck of a lot safer for youngsters than a Glock... less chance of an AD. I'd probably go with a .223 instead of .243 because the cost of practice ammo is so much cheaper for .223. A scope for both rifles is a good idea. One point that has not been stressed enough on this thread is that you also need a quiet weapon, especially for hunting. There are lots of reasons why you would not want to announce your presence to anyone with the sound of gunfire. If no one knows you're there, no one is going to bother you.

For this reason, I'd replace the 9mm Ruger with a .117 pellet rifle for the teenagers and probably carry a scoped pellet pistol myself on the weak side for small game when I left the compound. If I left for the specific purpose of hunting small game, I'd take one of the kid's pellet rifles and carry a folding carbine in a backpack. There are no bear where I live, so I'd leave the 357 out of my bag and replace it with a pellet pistol. I can't see any purpose for it that couldn't be better served by the combination of a hi-cap 9mm and a pellet pistol. Come to think of it, I'd probably carry a small, easily concealed 9mm also.

So here is my modification of your armory.

Kids

357 wheel gun

.223 Kel Tec Sub 9, 2000, or 16 or Ruger Mini 14

.177 pellet gun

2 moderately priced scopes

Spouse

357 wheel gun $250

one of the above 223s ~400-$600

Other person

Armed based on ability

Myself

Kel Tec Sub 9 or 2000 (scoped) $400

9mm or 40 cal handgun in matching mags to the Kel Tec $500

Small deep concealment 9mm or .380 (Ruger LCP, Kel Tec P3-AT, Kahr PM9) $250-$550

Pellet pistol (scoped) $150

The kids' weapons cost about $900; the spouse's, about $600; and you're in for just under $1,600, so that's less than five grand for the five packages.

Edited April 18, 2012 by jgradyc

[blahX3]

A thought. Mil-surp may be a great way to go. The Mil-surp rifle will be a proven reliable firearm, typically in a plentiful caliber. Again, cost will be an issue. But, these firearms are designed and built to handle what would destroy the average civilian firearm.

Plus a shotgun or three

[Moped]

I agree with all of this but a single shot H&R 12 ga. is about the most painful gun I have ever shot. Mine was so bad I gave it away. A couple lbs. of black powder, shot and ball and a flintlock smoothbore and you are way ahead of a single shot shotgun for sustinance. Another plus is you can cut up and use any shotgun shells you find. Just use less smokeless powder. Security is another matter.

The 20ga is no where near the punisher a 12ga is and you still have the ability to load buckshot and slugs in it. Both H&R and Rossi make convertibles and both are decent firearms.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

AR-15 Carbine #1: Go to Zombie Gun

AR-15 Carbine #2: Backup #1

Mini 14 Carbine: Backup #2

AR-15 .458 SOCOM: Tough Zombies

AR-15 24" Rifle: Distant Zombies

Rem 870: Close Zombies

Pistols: Closer Zombies

Marlin 336: Old Zombies

I have more, but who's got the time

Hell, I remember when you were debating that first lower. Impressive

[RichardR]

Interesting discussion, I've really enjoyed reading through it.

I think that if I was planning on arming a small family group of 5, 2 of which being children, within the same budget ($7500) it'd probably look more like (approximate prices are on the high end, used equipment can of course always be found cheaper).

Adults:

3x Mossberg 590A1's 20" 8+1 capacity, ghostring sights, +4 capacity speed feed stock ($500ish x 3 = $1500ish)

3x Glock 17 or 19's w/at least 3 extra magazines a piece for a total of 5 per person ($500ish x 3 = $1500ish)

Young Adults:

2x Ruger 10/22 carbine's, synthetic stocks, fiber optic sights, w/a couple of extra steel lipped 25rd magazines each ($250ish x 2 = $500ish).

2x Walther P22's, 3.5" barreled version, w/a couple of extra magazines each ($300ish x 2 = $600ish).

Communial:

1x Remington 700 SPS tactical, 20" barrel, chambered in .308 & scoped with decent quality 3-9x glass ($1500ish)

1x Yugoslavian M70AB2, w/about 10x 30rd magazines & at least 2x 75rd drum magazines ($800ish).

That would leave about $1100 left over to buy ammunition.

Anyway here are the reasons that I choose to go that particular route, first & foremost I don't think that there is a more versitile survival tool than the shotgun, not only is it a devistating self-defense weapon it can also take every type of wild game imaginable, be it flying fowl, deer, bear, elk, moose, rabbit, squirrel, hog, woodchuck or even fish (although I highly recommend NOT sticking the end of the barrel actually in the water).

The Glock 17 or 19 would be my choice of sidearm for the adults simply because Glocks are as rugged & reliable as rugged and reliable gets and 9mm is more than sufficient for self-defense IMHO and is widely availible and relatively inexpensive, with the addition of a couple of 33rd magazines they might even be able to make enough noise to ward off all but the most determined of foes.

The 10/22's would probably be my first choice for older children & young adults, the .22LR cartridge might not be the best defensive choice but my main concern would be having a rifle that the kids could train with comfortably & not be intimidated to fire it, this would be extremely important if the situation was so dire that the kids ever had to actually use a firearm to defend themselves.

The Walther P22 follows the same 10/22 logic as above, I would want something that the kids could be comfortable training with & shooting while still being lethal enough to give them some measure of protection if ever an emergency type situation ever arose.

As for the communial fireams, the Remington 700 (or any other precision high-powered rifle) aside from hunting, would be used for "overwatch" duty or for any type of preditor control that requires safely reaching beyond a shotguns effective reach, the .308 cartridge is also widely availible & relatively inexpensive for high-quality factory ammunition, comparitively speaking that is.

The Yugoslavian M70AB2 is, for those who don't know, is a folding stock AK-47 variant that is built off of a RPK reciever, an RPK for those who don't know is a light machine gun varient of the AK & is a bit "heavier-dutier" than a standard AKM reciever is, anyway the purpose behind the M70AB2 & for the 75rd drum magazines included with it, would be in case (God forbid) the need for sustained suppressive fire ever arose.

The only reason I would choose the AB2 version of the M70 instead of the traditional fixed stock M70 is just simply because they fold down into a slightly easier to store package, there is not any real performance difference between the two for this particular one's intended role, getting a good cheek weld isn't something you're going to worry about when you are blasting through a 75rd drum magazine as fast as humanly possible, besides the 7.62x39mm cartridge is cheap, effective enough for it's intended purpose & it is fairly abundant these days.

Granted the above suggestions wouldn't be the best solution for everyone's needs but that is probably the route I would take if I was going to prepare/equip/arm my family for an extreme "end of the world" type survival scenario with that particular budget limit..

[Guest 270win]

Have you thought about some trade in Smith and Wesson model 64 4 inch barrel revolvers? These are stainless steel and 38 Special. You can gather your brass easier with a revolver. There are a lot of good clean used Remington 870 wingmasters. 22 revolvers are also more reliable than 22 auto pistols generally when you have spotty 22 ammo.

You can get by with a good 4 inch 22 revolver from Smith or Ruger and then a good 22 bolt action rifle.

I know several people who have killed deer with 22 rifles. Not the best thing but if you are within bow distance you can kill a deer with a 22 as long as you are a practiced shot.

A lot of people think they need a shotgun for bird type hunting, but if you are hungry a 22 will serve that purpose a lot better. I had relatives who lived during the Depression that hunted everything with a 22, ducks, blackbirds, squirrels, coons. That whole steel shot in a shotgun, plugs, etc for migratory birds kind of went out the window for people who were hungry. The 22 also damages a lot less meat. Flying shots are not taken. You use that 22 when the bird or duck is still on the ground, tree, or water. 22 will work for a turkey too up close. Bolt action/single shot 22's have better triggers than autoloading 22's. A good trigger and an accurate rifle are what you need when hunting game up to a deer with a 22. Make the first shot count.

Edited May 29, 2012 by 270win

[LI0NSFAN]

Have you thought about some trade in Smith and Wesson model 64 4 inch barrel revolvers? These are stainless steel and 38 Special. You can gather your brass easier with a revolver. There are a lot of good clean used Remington 870 wingmasters. 22 revolvers are also more reliable than 22 auto pistols generally when you have spotty 22 ammo.

You can get by with a good 4 inch 22 revolver from Smith or Ruger and then a good 22 bolt action rifle.

I know several people who have killed deer with 22 rifles. Not the best thing but if you are within bow distance you can kill a deer with a 22 as long as you are a practiced shot.

I did get revolvers, I prefer revolvers.

[RichardR]

Yea I guess it is possbile to shoot a duck or goose or deer or what ever with a .22LR, but I suppose it is also possible to hammer a nail into a board with a pair of pliers or a socket wrench too.

[LI0NSFAN]

Yea I guess it is possbile to shoot a duck or goose or deer or what ever with a .22LR, but I suppose it is also possible to hammer a nail into a board with a pair of pliers or a socket wrench too.

Exactly my thought on a 22. great for small game and plinking but I would not trust it to take down anything 10lbs or bigger with one shot without great placement.

[RichardR]

Yup about the largest small game I hunt with .22LR are ground hogs (ie; woodchucks, I am not sure what you call them down here) but anyway they are pretty slow moving & are easy to get a head shot on.

I have hunted plenty of rabbits & squirrels with a .22LR over the years but I always have much better success using a shotgun, simply because you can easily take them while they are on the run & not have to wait for them to sit still long enough to get a good shot on them.

Same goes with ducks, geese, pheasant, quail, etc, much easier to bag them if your tossing a nice big spread of pellets at them, especially if they are flying up above ya.

[bullitt3989]

1600 dollars. Pardner pump protector 200$ at Walmart dome sportical 600 $ Walmart ruger 10/22 250 Walmart century used 5906 350 and ar sight for 100 $

[bullitt3989]

Dpms not dome

[Ratfink]

good ak platform and buy a bunch of 5.45x39

[Guest Riverrat]

Store prices and store buys. A good sell from someone you know. Hit the streets you can get them at dirt cheap prices. My 9mm was 40 from someone that needed a fix. Hilary gets her way these will be the only guns you'll have.

[SonnyCrockett]

Semi Auto 12GA Shotgun .

AK-47 or AR or both

9MM with 16+ rounds in the mag

I have all now......IMO Semi Autos will be under GOVT attack after Osamabama is re elected

get yours now while u still can......

Edited June 21, 2012 by SonnyCrockett

[Timestepper]

Exactly my thought on a 22. great for small game and plinking but I would not trust it to take down anything 10lbs or bigger with one shot without great placement.

I was raised and learned to shoot with a single shot. Most of the guns I own now are single shot. Yeah, I know that I wouldn't last five minutes against all you guys that can throw a whole box of bullets down range in the time it takes me to get off one shot, BUT all of my shots depend upon great placement. And if I'm in a survival situation where all I've got is a .22 and I'm hungry, believe me, I'll make that shot count.

[LI0NSFAN]

I was raised and learned to shoot with a single shot. Most of the guns I own now are single shot. Yeah, I know that I wouldn't last five minutes against all you guys that can throw a whole box of bullets down range in the time it takes me to get off one shot, BUT all of my shots depend upon great placement. And if I'm in a survival situation where all I've got is a .22 and I'm hungry, believe me, I'll make that shot count.

I really like a single shot for hunting. I like you just don't think I would last 5 minutes with the moron coming at me with a semi auto. I did coose to go with guns that are limited by tube/cylinder, but I think my well placed 3 shots will be better than mosts spray and pray style so having to carry 15 mags fully loaded is silly to me.

[RichardR]

Well unfortunately the outlook is not good if A.) You are out hunting alone & B.) all you have is a single shot rifle and you find yourself in a situation where some moron is keeping you pinned down with heavy suppressive fire while another moron flanks your position.

Depending on how quickly the first moron is blowing through his magazine, how accurate the incoming rounds are, and how quickly the second moron is moving, how much cover or concealment he has etc, it would be a really ####ty situation to find yourself in, maybe a second or two to respond to each of them, one shot at a time, which would have to hit its mark, egads man I sure would hope and pray for some divine intervention at that point.

[Timestepper]

If you're blundering around so much that you allow that to happen, then you probably deserve what you get.

[Howler]

Glock 17 9mm

Marlin 22mag

Savage .243 or Ruger .243

Remington 870 in 12 or 20

Been watching this post for some time now. Figured I'd chime in with my picks and why I picked them.

Spending no more money than allowed and having to pick 4 guns...

G17-- Why? because both my kids and wife shoot it well. High round count. Knowing that most people miss when shooting under stress a high round count was a deciding factor.

Reloading under stress can cause problems. As long as ya don't have ftf or fte 4 people shooting the G17's would be hard to ignore.

Marlin 22mag--- I've always loved this round. A little more bang with not much more noise or weight than the 22lr. If needed... head and neck shots take down large game animals.

Savage .243---Cheap to buy new or used. Killed deer at long range with one shot. Fast and flat shooter. Love my .243's. The kids were shooting them at the age of 9 because of the low recoil.

Remington 870 with #4 buck. Sorry, but if I'm in a house the shotgun will be my "go to" gun. Knowing that I don't hit moving targets well the SG helps make up for that downfall. I love my 12ga with 20 inch barrel. It's as good up close as a carbine. Pick a choke that fits your situation.

I've enjoyed reading this thread. I understand the .357 choice, but I've never had much experience with it other than shooting a couple revolvers. My picks were the result of my hunting experiences and family time at the range. I'd like to see how much the picks would change with a maximum number of three guns. At three guns... I'd have to pick AR, 870, and G17.

[Guest Scramasax]

If you get .357m/38sp lever and wheel guns you have no mag problems or cost. All you have to do is stock up on ammo. You can the budget for a reloading setup. You should try to get the same carbines and revolvers to stock up on spare parts and quick loaders.

Going this route you have just taken yourself back into the 1800s. Not necessarily a bad thing. Simple robust manual actions that are reliable with questionable scrounged ammo.

I would still try to budget a pump or double shotgun and a lever or bolt .22 somewhere in the mix.

Look on the net for revolver trade in they do still happen on occasion .

ts

[txbrown]

This has been a very enjoyable read. I bought my first recent handgun about 5 years ago. Bought a Ruger SP101 in 357. I fly fish in the mountains and wanted a rugged, stainless, go boom that was easy to carry. I love that gun.

As I began building my arsenal, I kept the ammo in mind, as discussed earlier. I bought Kimber 1911 in 45 ACP and a Colt M4. Both rounds will be more readily available. I then bought 22lr versions of the same platforms, M&P 15-22 for the Colt and Colt Gold Cup 22 for the Kimber. That way I am always using the same platform weapon in a high power or low cost version. Great for training, like the safety thumb on the 1911. My M&P 15-22 acts just like the Colt, not a 10-22 or plinker with plastic dress up. I also added a Sig P238 due to size and fun to shoot but it also handles like a 1911. All of my actions are becoming instinctual. Muscle memory will be critical if SHTF does occur + daily safety is enhanced by using the same platforms. Ability improves with practice and $0.03/round is better than $0.40/round.

Adding a Mossberg 500 this week due to flexibility of the platform and it follows ammo rule - 12ga availability. I like lever guns and will probably add a Henry/Marlin in 22 and 357 just because, but the ammo caliber choice supports my SP101. I do think getting a 22 can is a great idea for keeping neighbors happy and others from snooping if I want to take out a varmint or get some food if SHTF. Also considering crossbow but that doesn't fit here. Edited December 10, 2012 by txbrown