(Carry?) Fall Creek Falls Campground

[GlockSpock]

Trying to figure out if carry is accepted here. The whole carrying in parks thing is confusing. Something about if it is posted it is still ok unless it is posted in a specific way?

[peejman]

Ok to carry with HCP in state/national parks, even if posted. The law change to allow carry did not require signage be changed.

Though I believe while you can carry on park property, you cannot carry inside a properly posted building in a park.

City/county parks are far more confusing as they may or may not have opted out, regardless of signage.

Edited March 16, 2012 by peejman

[GlockSpock]

Signage is something I would like clarification on a well. I read something today that suggested a mere "slash through gun sticker" is not adequate posting and carries no legal weight for a business.

What is required in the state of TN for a business to properly restrict carry?

[Guest Ceolas]

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/tennessee.pdf

© A building, property or a portion of a building or property, shall be considered properly posted in accordance with this section if one (1) or both of the following is displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited:

(i) The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle; or

(ii) The posting sign described in this subdivision ((3).

[monkeylizard]

^^This

One note on national parks is that buildings where actual NPS employees (aka rangers) work are off-limits, sign or not. I don't think I have seen a building where they work that wasn't posted with a gunbuster, but it's not required. A gift shop or snack bar operated by a contractor would have to be posted, but a visitor center or ranger station is off-limits posted or not.

All state parks are good-to-go.

City parks have to post except that Nashville and Knoxville (any others?) city parks are off limits even without a proper sign.

Confused yet? Thank a legislator.

Edited March 16, 2012 by monkeylizard

[GlockSpock]

8. It is a violation of the law to carry where it is posted with this sign:

PURSUANT TO § 39-17-1359, THE OWNER/OPERATOR OF THIS PROPERTY

HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY, OR WITHIN THIS

BUILDING OR THIS PORTION OF THIS BUILDING. FAILURE TO COMPLY

WITH THIS PROHIBITION IS PUNISHABLE AS A CRIMINAL ACT UNDER

STATE LAW AND MAY SUBJECT THE VIOLATOR TO A FINE OF NOT

MORE THAN FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500).

The wording must be substantially similar. A sign with a picture of a handgun with a slash through it does not count.

http://www.usacarry.com/tennessee_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

Going to play it safe in this account and honor the slashed gun signs, but this is so confusing and there is so much misinformation floating around.

Constitutional Carry FTW!

[Lumber_Jack]

in TN is the wordage above OR a circle slash gun sign, is all that is required. This has been discussed at length and im sure someone will come along shortly with the exact statute. wherever you're getting the "circle slash isn't enough" information, is old

[GlockSpock]

Ok. Thank you very much for this information. I believe this answer all my questions.

To sum this weekend up:

Even if I see a general posting at the campground, it is ok for me to carry?

[Lumber_Jack]

State parks and campgrounds - yes.

National parks - yes.

National park buildings - no

Businesses - no.

[Oh Shoot]

...

City parks have to post except that Nashville and Knoxville (any others?) city parks are off limits even without a proper sign.

Tell me more. First time I've heard that about Nashville. Ever.

Thought Knoxville was only one.

- OS

[Guest Torrin]

Tell me more. First time I've heard that about Nashville. Ever.

Thought Knoxville was only one.

- OS

This is the only story I could easily find about t: http://www.wkrn.com/global/Story.asp?s=10953249

[Oh Shoot]

This is the only story I could easily find about t: http://www.wkrn.com/....asp?s=10953249

Well, they just opted out of the new park carry statute, like many cities and counties in TN. Still have to post, which I thought was the case.

Knoxville relies on existing grandfathered city ordinance.

Cities/counties can't enact ANY gun laws after the 4/8/86 cutoff.

- OS

[monkeylizard]

That's good to know. I thought Nashville was grandfathered in too.

[monkeylizard]

in TN is the wordage above OR a circle slash gun sign, is all that is required. This has been discussed at length and im sure someone will come along shortly with the exact statute. wherever you're getting the "circle slash isn't enough" information, is old

Lumber_Jack is correct. For proof, you can read the TCA found here

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/

39-17-13-59 is what we're discussing.

B3a and B3b discuss the wording of the sign

B3c says the circle-slash is good enough.

[Fallguy]

Just to clarify one thing, Federal Buildings at National Parks are required to post a sign that they are a Federal Building per Federal Law.

More info here…

http://handgunlaw.us/states/usa.pdf

I think the rest about National/State/Local parks has been covered.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

A sign with a picture of a handgun with a slash through it does not count.

Yes it does.

[TNMP40]

Fall Creak is a private campground if it is the one off of Fall Creek Rd in Hamblen Co. Not a problem there.

[DaveTN]

Signage is something I would like clarification on a well. I read something today that suggested a mere "slash through gun sticker" is not adequate posting and carries no legal weight for a business.

What is required in the state of TN for a business to properly restrict carry?

A circle with a slash isn’t enough, but add “No guns allowed†and it could be.

Here’s what the Tennessee Attorney General has to say about it. But keep in mind this carries no legal weight, a Judge can trump him. I wouldn’t want to fall into the trick bag of having to argue “Substantially similar†in court.

S T A T E O F T E N N E S S E E

OFFICE OF THE

ATTORNEY GENERAL

PO BOX 20207

NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE 37202

April 9, 2007

Opinion No. 07-43

Posting Notices that Handguns Are Not Permitted in Private Buildings

QUESTIONS

1. In order to prohibit handgun permit holders from carrying their handguns in a nongovernmental building, must the sign contain the exact language set forth in Tenn. Code Ann. § 39- 17-1359(a)?

2. May a property owner use the international circle and slash symbol in lieu of a sign that uses the language prescribed by Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a)?

3. In a building with multiple businesses, does Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a)

require the posting of signs at every entrance to the entire building, or to each separate business that elects to prohibit handguns if the entire building has not prohibited the possession of handguns on

the premises?

OPINIONS

1. No. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a) requires the posting of a notice which uses language that is “substantially similar†to the language provided in the statute.

2. No. The international circle and slash symbol may not be used in lieu of a sign that uses the language prescribed by Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a).

3. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359 requires the posting of notices at the entrances of each individual business that prohibits weapons on its property if possession of handguns has not been prohibited on the entire property.

ANALYSIS

1. Owners of private property may prohibit the possession of handguns and other

weapons on their property. To be effective, the owner must post a written notice that satisfies the requirements of Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a), which states, in pertinent part: The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. The sign shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, premises or property and shall contain language substantially similar to the following:

PURSUANT TO § 39-17-1359, THE OWNER/OPERATOR OF THIS PROPERTY

HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY, OR WITHIN THIS

BUILDING OR THIS PORTION OF THIS BUILDING. FAILURE TO COMPLY

WITH THIS PROHIBITION IS PUNISHABLE AS A CRIMINAL ACT UNDER

STATE LAW AND MAY SUBJECT THE VIOLATOR TO A FINE OF NOT

MORE THAN FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500).

The primary objective of statutory construction is to give effect to the intent of the legislature.

See Cronin v. Howe, 906 S.W.2d 910, 912 (Tenn. 1995). If the language of a statute is clear and unambiguous, the legislative intent must be ascertained by the plain and ordinary meaning of the statutory language used. See Carson Creek Vacation Resorts, Inc. v. State, Dep’t of Revenue, 865 S.W.2d 1, 2 (Tenn. 1993).

Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a) is clear and unambiguous. By its terms, it does not require word-for-word use of the statutory language. All that is required is that the notice uses language that is substantially similar to the language provided in the statute.

2. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a) also authorizes the use of the international circle and slash symbol. The unambiguous language of the statute, however, states that the international symbol may be used in addition to, not in lieu of, the written notice that is prescribed the statute.

3. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a) also prescribes the requirement for the posting of notices. It states, in relevant part:

Posted notices shall be displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited. If the possession of weapons is also prohibited on the premises of the property as well as within the confines of a building located on the property, the notice shall be posted at all entrances to the premises that are primarily used by persons entering the property.

Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a).

Under the plain language of the statute, if the owner intends to prohibit the possession of handguns or other weapons on the entire premises, the notice must be posted at each entrance to the premises primarily used by persons entering the building, as well as any other prominent locations the owner may choose. If the owner intends to prohibit such possession only in certain parts of the

premises, the notices must be posted at the entrances primarily used by persons entering those parts of the premises.

ROBERT E. COOPER, JR.

Attorney General

MICHAEL E. MOORE

Solicitor General

LIZABETH A. HALE

Assistant Attorney General

Requested by:

Honorable Matthew Hill

State Representative for the 7th Legislative District

107 War Memorial Building

Nashville, TN 37243

Edited March 22, 2012 by DaveTN

[Oh Shoot]

A circle with a slash isn’t enough, but add “No guns allowed†and it could be.

Here’s what the Tennessee Attorney General has to say about it. But keep in mind this carries no legal weight, a Judge can trump him. I wouldn’t want to fall into the trick bag of having to argue “Substantially similar†in court.

You're way behind Dave. Law changed since then. Gunbuster, all by itself, of any size, is statutory compliant posting.

- OS

[Fallguy]

A circle with a slash isn’t enough, but add “No guns allowed†and it could be.

Here’s what the Tennessee Attorney General has to say about it. But keep in mind this carries no legal weight, a Judge can trump him. I wouldn’t want to fall into the trick bag of having to argue “Substantially similar†in court.

The law changed in 2009, a circle and slash is a proper posting now. Also if just words are used there are 3 pieces of info that must be included.

[DaveTN]

You're way behind Dave. Law changed since then. Gunbuster, all by itself, of any size, is statutory compliant posting.

- OS

The law changed in 2009, a circle and slash is a proper posting now. Also if just words are used there are 3 pieces of info that must be included.

Thanks for the update.

So I guess it boils down to “Sir, did you not know what the sign meant?â€

I’m glad this law isn’t enforced because I just don’t look for signs on doors. I sometimes miss the big “USE OTHER DOOR SIGNâ€

[Fallguy]

Thanks for the update.

So I guess it boils down to “Sir, did you not know what the sign meant?â€

I’m glad this law isn’t enforced because I just don’t look for signs on doors. I sometimes miss the big “USE OTHER DOOR SIGNâ€

See the AG Opinion in this thread http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/46199-recent-ag-opinion-on-carry-in-courtrooms-and-39-17-1359/