Saiga 12 Project

[Romad7]

This is my first firearm project and so far so good. I did the pistol grip conversion and more. I just wanted to if there is any interest in this and try to post some useful info for anyone who would like to do this and would like to learn from a newbie's experience.

There are a couple things that I would do different but I'll wait to see if anyone cares:)

Here are some pics, I'll gladly post a parts list for this project if anyone is interested.

The only things that I have left is to get my barrel cut and the brake permanently attached for an 18" overall barrel length and possibly add a reflex sight (Eotech copy).

Let me know if there are any questions or if someone in the Tri-cities area needs some help.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Are you going to leave those holes open? That looks like the CSS trigger guard so the kit should have included the plastic rivets for those holes.

Also, how do you like the fodling stock? Does it lock in the folded position?

I ground my front sight off and installed the Krebs iron sights. I like them so far and are definitely more accurate than the factory sights. I, like you, are probably going with a shorter barrel but I think I am going to NFA mine. When I do that I am going to have to add more ports to the barrel for reliability.

I have done a lot of work to ensure mine is supremely reliable. It wasn't unreliable when new but I wanted it to be reliable no matter what and it is.

Here are some of the things I did.

I made my own lightweight dished plug out of 17-4 stainless. It is a much tighter fit with corners that are more square and defined. The plug is about 2/3 the weight of the factory plug and once I hardened it it seems to be working really well. The factory plug worked just as well but I wanted to add an extra US part. I also replaced the first recoil spring with a 16 pound 1911 Gov't spring.

I did the glass bolt smooth and polish job, you have the tools to do it because you did the conversion yourself. That helped with cycling more than anything else. It also allows you to insert loaded mags with the bolt forward. I also added the JTE hammer/trigger spring. And after a nice polish job on the trigger and hammer mating surfaces the trigger is amazing for an AK. It still does have a lot of take up but that is the AK. I think the combination of the polished bolt, polished hammer face, new recoil spring, new hammer spring and new plug made this thing amazingly reliable. It has 700+ rounds through it so far and the only problems can be attributed to me trying to make some "cheap" slugs for it. Now I am just going to replace the shot in cheap rounds with 1.25 ounce round balls. They cycle better being .25 ounce heavier and are accurate enough to hit man sized sillouettes at 50 yards.

Have you shot it with your new plug? Or more importantly did you shoot it before? Mine ran 100% with the factory plug and after the glass bolt mod it would cycle most, not all, low brass on the high brass setting.

If you have any cycling issues a cheap and reliable fix is to replace the first recoil spring with a 16 pound 1911 Gov't spring. This is what I was to was in the CSS reliability kit.

If you are going to add any scope do not use the side mount. It puts the scope up too high for a good check to stock weld. If I were going to do it I would use a low mount on a Ultimak rail or maybe even an SGM quad rail setup then mount the optic as far forward as it is comfortable for you. Personally I like having irons on this shotgun.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

One more thing.

If you want to try before you buy you are more than welcome to try my side mount. I didn't like it on my S12 but you might. If you ever come to Knoxville we can meet and you can pull the trigger on my S12.

Dolomite

[Superman]

I really need to get one of these

[blahX3]

I want to cut my barrel too. Nfa shorter.

Any idea how much can be cut off before running into cycle problems?

[Dolomite_supafly]

To fix the cycling problems just drill more ports. You WILL have issues when you start shortening the barrel. If you start out with the long barrel you can't even go back to 19" without issues in most cases from what I have read. The 19" guns also have issues when you drop inches. The only ways to fix it is either more ports in the barrel or move the gas block back. And more ports is a lot easier than moving the gas block back.

I would like the barrel to be ~12"-14" providing I don't need to move the gas block. I haven't even measured anythign so I don't know what can and can't be done at this point.

Dolomite

[Romad7]

Are you going to leave those holes open? That looks like the CSS trigger guard so the kit should have included the plastic rivets for those holes.

Also, how do you like the fodling stock? Does it lock in the folded position?

I did the glass bolt smooth and polish job, you have the tools to do it because you did the conversion yourself.

Have you shot it with your new plug? Or more importantly did you shoot it before? Mine ran 100% with the factory plug and after the glass bolt mod it would cycle most, not all, low brass on the high brass setting.

If you are going to add any scope do not use the side mount. It puts the scope up too high for a good check to stock weld. If I were going to do it I would use a low mount on a Ultimak rail or maybe even an SGM quad rail setup then mount the optic as far forward as it is comfortable for you. Personally I like having irons on this shotgun.

Dolomite

My bit was having trouble with that last hole so it needs to be drilled out completely before I can plug it. I may end up welding them at some point but probably will wait until I get a TIG welder. The other 3 are plugged. And yes I got most of my parts from CSS.

The stock doesn't fold, its only collapsible (Tapco T6).

After the basic build is totally complete I need to look into doing reliability work like you mentioned. I haven't had many issues though, gas holes line up and look good. I had problems with the Winchester universal before and after the auto plug but that's normal. I mainly got it so I don't have to worry about settings with different loads (and it looks cool). Still works good with some lower brass stuff but I haven't tested it very extensively yet.

I had thought about the side mount but went with the UTG quad rail http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-251/utg-saiga-12-quad/Detail?sfs=9eb6c817. It come with 2 top rails, short and long. I'll post some pics later but that is a great kit for $99, even came rail protectors (on my gun). I am still deciding what I want to use. I also got some glow in the dark paint for the iron sights from Glo Nation but it's clear. I am going to get the white pigmented paint for day/night visibility, we'll see how that turns out.

I might go the SBS route later and cut it down to where the brake is up against the hand guard, that would be pretty awesome looking. It will help with the weight of that giant hunk of metal on the end of the barrel.

To answer the other poster's question, I was reading that problems usually start developing around the 12" or so mark. Although with Dolomite's and others mods/improvements you can fix that with some minor gunsmith work (if you can do the conversion then it shouldn't be a problem).

[Romad7]

I really need to get one of these

In case the rumors of an import ban turn out to be true, I would get one sooner than later. Even if you don't do the work now and just store it for later, the prices might keep going up.

[Romad7]

Another thing I am doing is swapping out the shepard's crook for the retaining plate. That spring made me crazy when I put the insides back together. On that same note, I will probably remove the BHO all together, I never want to deal with that again and the "button" rubs my trigger finger.

I might get the mag well to deal with inserting full mags on a closed bolt. It's all about finding the money now;)

[Dolomite_supafly]

Another thing I am doing is swapping out the shepard's crook for the retaining plate. That spring made me crazy when I put the insides back together. On that same note, I will probably remove the BHO all together, I never want to deal with that again and the "button" rubs my trigger finger.

I might get the mag well to deal with inserting full mags on a closed bolt. It's all about finding the money now;)

I ground mine down and rounded it. It never hurts anything now. It is like a 1/2 circle and sits flush when engaged. I did it at the same time I did the conversion. After reading about issues like yours I didn't want to take a chance.

Dolomite

[Smith]

Another thing I am doing is swapping out the shepard's crook for the retaining plate. That spring made me crazy when I put the insides back together. On that same note, I will probably remove the BHO all together, I never want to deal with that again and the "button" rubs my trigger finger.

I might get the mag well to deal with inserting full mags on a closed bolt. It's all about finding the money now;)

I always use the Tapco retaining plate. Makes things a whole lot easier. That stupid little spring isn't worth the hassle and yes take out the BHO. It doesn't do anything except get in the way.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I use my BHO to lock the bolt back so I can keep a loaded mag in the gun. Otherwise the spring pressure will squash the first round against the bottom of the bolt. And after it gets squashed it will not chamber.

Dolomite

[Romad7]

I always use the Tapco retaining plate. Makes things a whole lot easier. That stupid little spring isn't worth the hassle and yes take out the BHO. It doesn't do anything except get in the way.

Now you tell me:)

I actually learned about the plate while looking at videos while assembling my gun, ordered it immediately after that. I like the idea of a BHO but the execution is terrible on this gun. Definitely an afterthought. I am undecided on keeping it or not, I'll probably try to engineer my own or modify the existing one. We'll see how far I get before throwing the thing across the room and giving up.

[Smith]

Now you tell me:)

I actually learned about the plate while looking at videos while assembling my gun, ordered it immediately after that. I like the idea of a BHO but the execution is terrible on this gun. Definitely an afterthought. I am undecided on keeping it or not, I'll probably try to engineer my own or modify the existing one. We'll see how far I get before throwing the thing across the room and giving up.

If you want a BHO use the lever method. Doens't get in the way of your trigger and is a bit safer ... not having to put your finger that close to the trigger to actuate it. You can buy them or just use the standard AK tool .... the Dremel.

[gjohnsoniv]

This project looks fun.

[Romad7]

If you want a BHO use the lever method. Doens't get in the way of your trigger and is a bit safer ... not having to put your finger that close to the trigger to actuate it. You can buy them or just use the standard AK tool .... the Dremel.

How does this work? Is the safety lever changed to interact with the BHO lever?

[Dolomite_supafly]

The charging handle drops into the slot in the top of the safety after it is pulled to the rear.

Dolomite

[Romad7]

I fired some cheap Federal and some 00 Buck and the Federal doesn't work. This is normal for my gun though, I need to do some polishing and port work to see if that will improve. Auto plug did nothing for me on the light stuff.

I do notice a few points of friction resistance when manually operating the bolt so need to fix that.

I do not like the Monster Brake! I didn't notice much reduction in recoil but I could have been distracted by the blast of warm exhaust in my face. I know about the back blast from muzzle brakes but I didn't think it would directed at the Shooter's face. This would be much worse with a shorter barrel.

I also check the rear of the bolt carrier and noticed some impact marks, is this normal (pic attached)? I did have the Auto plug tightened way down trying to get the light stuff to cycle so I'll keep an eye on it during normal ops.

[Romad7]

The charging handle drops into the slot in the top of the safety after it is pulled to the rear.

Dolomite

So, flip the safety on while holding the bolt back? I'm not quite connecting the dots here.

[Smith]

So, flip the safety on while holding the bolt back? I'm not quite connecting the dots here.

That's it. Easy and mechanical like an AK's supposed to be.

As far as the cheap low pressure ammo, keep in mind that the Saiga is a military built weapon designed to use hot military rounds. The hotter it is the better. That being said the ones I've had in the past never had issues with the lower pressure stuff outside of the Walmart stuff.

[Romad7]

I may just have to stay away from Walmart stuff, not a big deal. Thanks for the tips!

[TLRMADE]

I really need to get one of these

Mines for sale in the marketplace

Just get the low brass reliability kit and it will help with the Walmart ammo!

[Dolomite_supafly]

Replace the first spring with a 16 pound 1911 spring and it will help a lot with the low brass stuff. That as well as blend and polish the bottom of the bolt. You will be able to shoot 90% of the cheap ammo out there. Remington is about the best "cheap" shotgun ammo. Federal and Winchester seems to be lackluster.

Some people swear by the auto plug and some just swear at it. Personally I like the factory plug. You have 2 adjustments, low and high.

And mine will run every low brass round I have ever tried on my low setting now. And on the high setting it will run most low brass and all of the high brass stuff as well. And it does this without any impacts.

Dolomite

[orientalexpress]

Mine fired walmarts cheapest loads until I moved the trigger forward. Now it will only fire 3 1/4 dram field loads and of course buckshot. I couldn't quite figure it out. All I could figure is that the modified tapco hammer was causing too much friction for the bolt have enough ummph to cycle low powered stuff. I took it apart and grinded it (hammer, bolt, etc) down and polished and it still only 50/50. I got frustrated since I dont have a place to test fire and have to drive 30mins. I figured I would just buy a bunch of 3 1/2 dram stuff since the rio 7 1/2 isn't really any more expensive. I wish before the store I worked at burned down I had ordered a case of it since I was buying it at cost. What do you guys think of the chaos rail with hk sights?

[Jon_L]

Anyone tried these magwell adapters? TAC-47 and SGM makes them.

I'm looking at the TAC-47 brand myself.