U.S. soldier kills 16 Afghan civilians, including children

[Steelharp]

Mikey just now called! He's at Camp Leatherneck. He has a couple days before he goes to "work." But he's there, safe and sound.

[Dolomite_supafly]

As a person who has spent a lot of time over there I will say that if we turn this soldier over it will not change how the average Afghan feels about the US. They do not like us, never have and never will, but what they do like is our money so they tolerate us.

There were reports yesterday on the news that the soldier had a traumatic brain injury on his last deployment as well as being diagnosed with PTSD. He was supposedly non deployable but was later cleared to go. I am speculating here but I bet he was cleared for deployment when the unit's number of deployable soldiers was under the established minimum.

I am not condoning what he did but there are mitigating circumstances. And in the same way we would protect those who have mental disorders in our legal system this soldier should be protected as well. We should not turn him over to the Afghans but in the same token he should be held accountable for what he did providing he is mentally capable of standing trial. I would also speculate that members of his unit as well as his immediate supervisors had a clue something was a miss with him before his deployment.

As heinous as what this soldier did it is nothing compared to what the average Afghan male does to his own family. Not saying it is right but for the Afghans to act as though they never kill their own wives and children is a bit over the top. If they want to get upset at teh US they need to get upset at themselves as well. The men will kill women everyday for things like driving a car, being outside without their burka or talking to a male that is not a family member. A father allowed his daughter to die so he could keep the bandages we gave him to treat his daughter's burns. And another father had a daughter who needed surgery to stay alive but couldn't afford it. We went around to all the Americans and collected enough for the surgery. Gave him the money and he allowed his daughter to die because he wanted the money for a truck.

Maybe we, as Americans, should be protesting how the Afghans treat their own families.

As much as I believed we needed to be in Afghanistan for the average Afghan's well being because of the Taliban (not Al Qaeda) it is now time to leave. And leave them in a worst state than we found them, they deserve it because they will never change. No matter how hard we try to make them better a better country and people it will not happen. I say let them go back to farming rocks and eating dirt.

They haven't changed in 500+ years and our time there isn't going to change them either. The biggest advancement the Afghan people have made in the last 500 years is to not crap in their own wells.

I hate to say it but I would be willing to bet this soldier is going to be turned over to the Afghans. And when that happens all the soldiers over there are in jeopardy. The Afghans are going to start making claims that are false for their own agendas and soldiers are going to be turned over. I have seen them like, cheat and steal against the Americans. It is commonplace and it seems encouraged to lie.

Dolomite

[Steelharp]

Mikey said last night when he called that this is the main topic of discussion on the base right now. He heard they are planning on shipping him back here for court martial.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Mikey said last night when he called that this is the main topic of discussion on the base right now. He heard they are planning on shipping him back here for court martial.

I hope so.

Dolomite

[Major Kong]

I hope so.

Dolomite

Me too.

Carrying on with my good fight,

MK

[Steelharp]

Well... we all know how "planning" and "reality" go...

[TMF]

Just heard on the news that he's already been moved out of country.

[mikegideon]

Just heard on the news that he's already been moved out of country.

I would have been real surprised if it went any other way. Of course, we live in surprising times.

[TMF]

I would have been real surprised if it went any other way. Of course, we live in surprising times.

Well there was zero chance of him being turned over. However, it would have been nice if his Court Martial was held in country as they sometimes are. Being that it's a case that will draw lots of attention I'm not surprised they moved it elsewhere.

[Caster]

If he gets off easy I bet the other troops will suffer for it. One thing about them muzzies, they're tenacious about the causes they support.

[Moped]

We should never turn our own over to others. What they are doing is the right thing to do. He is out of the country. He will be brought back here and Court Marshalled. If he is convicted, then I hope they give him what he deserves. I read today that the traumatic brain injury was actually a concussion.

[TripleDigitRide]

We should never turn our own over to others. What they are doing is the right thing to do. He is out of the country. He will be brought back here and Court Marshalled. If he is convicted, then I hope they give him what he deserves. I read today that the traumatic brain injury was actually a concussion.

Because I've never been in such a situation, my opinion is nothing more than speculation. But I'd be willing to bet that serving 3-5 tours in a s*** hole where the enemy is trying to kill you every day is more likely to cause someone to "break" than a concussion.

I think the fact that our troop aren't doing this type of thing more often is a true testament to just how mentally strong our men and women truly are.

Although it's difficult to justify such actions, I can't help but feel sorry for this guy. I've never had to walk a single footstep in his boots, so I can't honestly say that I'd be able to handle the stress any better. This is especially true when it appears our government is doing a real s****y job at ensuring our servicemen and servicewomen are properly care for in terms of their psychological well-being.

Edited March 15, 2012 by TripleDigitRide

[TMF]

Although it's difficult to justify such actions, I can't help but feel sorry for this guy. I've never had to walk a single footstep in his boots, so I can't honestly say that I'd be able to handle the stress any better. This is especially true when it appears our government is doing a real s****y job at ensuring our servicemen and servicewomen are properly care for in terms of their psychological well-being.

Well I have been in his boots. Under no circumstances is murdering civilians justifiable. Sometimes civilians get in the crossfire. Sometimes we kinetically target the enemy knowing that civilians are present, which is still legitimate. Killing civilians with the intent to murder is dishonorable and should be a mandatory sentence of death upon conviction.

I don't give a damn about his "PTSD" he may or may not have. These days it seems that every POG that turned a wrench and heard an explosion is claiming they see dead people and want some sympathy. Even if this guy was pushed to the edge it excuses nothing. We are all accountable for our actions and I can't think of any reason that would justify killing women and children when not in conduct of an official combat operation.

On another note, the Muslim world will always hate us no matter what we do. We could skin this guy alive and feed him to pigs and they would still hate us just as much. We could give him a medal and throw him a friggin parade and they would hate us just as much. The only way to ever appease the Islamic world is to submit to Islamic law, give back the holy lands and face Mecca five times a day. Our actions as a country should never take into account appeasing these people for what they may or may not do. They hate us all; even the apologist freedom haters and even those Muslims that reside within our borders. We're all guilty in their eyes.

Whatever happens to this Soldier should be the result of Military law. He shouldn't get off because of some bullsh*t PTSD defense, and he shouldn't be crucified because we worry about what the Muslim world will think of us.

[Dolomite_supafly]

PTSD is very real for some soldiers but I do not believe it is as widespread as what we are hearing about. Just as you said I think it is people looking for something, be it sympathy or money.

I think that all mitigating factors need to be addressed before and during his court matial, we owe him that as a soldier and as an American. If he is found guilty after that then he should be held accountable to the highest degree.

What he did was heinous and unfathomable to me but he is still entitled to the same rights afforded the rest of us, after all I, as well as others, have fought for him to have those rights.

I think the Afghan people are tired of us being there and are looking for any fire to throw gasoline on in hopes we leave. Same thing happened in Iraq, they loved us for a while then hated us and then we left. This is what should do in Afghanistan now, leave. Let them go back to the Taliban rule of law.

Dolomite

[R1100R]

On another note, the Muslim world will always hate us no matter what we do. We could skin this guy alive and feed him to pigs and they would still hate us just as much. We could give him a medal and throw him a friggin parade and they would hate us just as much. The only way to ever appease the Islamic world is to submit to Islamic law, give back the holy lands and face Mecca five times a day. Our actions as a country should never take into account appeasing these people for what they may or may not do. They hate us all; even the apologist freedom haters and even those Muslims that reside within our borders. We're all guilty in their eyes.

Whatever happens to this Soldier should be the result of Military law. He shouldn't get off because of some bullsh*t PTSD defense, and he shouldn't be crucified because we worry about what the Muslim world will think of us.

This is too true. They will hate us no matter what. One thing that is true it doesn't matter what Muslim country you spend time in, you feel the hate before you leave if you spent any real time there. The are raised on this from a very early age.and take their religion very seriously compared to here.

Edited March 15, 2012 by R1100R

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Like I alluded to before, I wonder how many of his fellow soldiers he saw get killed by

the people he was sent there to protect. I can't imagine a worse mission for a soldier

to be sent on and seeing that happen. I'm not making excuses for him, but trying to understand

their mission and wondering if it can even be accomplished. If the war is defined that's one thing.

This, I don't know.

I think the politicians have placed the soldiers in an impossible and unacceptable position.

[dou44]

for the ones who were never there you do not understand,you see what the news lets you see and not what you should see. i do not agree 100 % about killing the kids,but when they get old enough to carry a rifle that is another story.i cannot stand them or or what they stand for .you cannot trust them and the ones that the military does still needs shot with the others.i saw more that i will ever forget and i would not turn him over ,most combat soilders would not either.

[TripleDigitRide]

The updated article mentioned something about him suffering multiple injuries during his 3 or 4 tours, one resulting in the removal of part of his foot. He was told he wasn't going to have to go back for this most recent tour, nor did he want to. Reports are saying that he witnessed his friends leg being blown off the day before he went on this rampage.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

for the ones who were never there you do not understand,you see what the news lets you see and not what you should see. i do not agree 100 % about killing the kids,but when they get old enough to carry a rifle that is another story.i cannot stand them or or what they stand for .you cannot trust them and the ones that the military does still needs shot with the others.i saw more that i will ever forget and i would not turn him over ,most combat soilders would not either.

And people like you are who I tend to get balance from, instead of the media. I've heard your story

from too many soldiers to think otherwise.

[scoutfsu]

Well I have been in his boots. Under no circumstances is murdering civilians justifiable. Sometimes civilians get in the crossfire. Sometimes we kinetically target the enemy knowing that civilians are present, which is still legitimate. Killing civilians with the intent to murder is dishonorable and should be a mandatory sentence of death upon conviction.

I don't give a damn about his "PTSD" he may or may not have. These days it seems that every POG that turned a wrench and heard an explosion is claiming they see dead people and want some sympathy. Even if this guy was pushed to the edge it excuses nothing. We are all accountable for our actions and I can't think of any reason that would justify killing women and children when not in conduct of an official combat operation.

On another note, the Muslim world will always hate us no matter what we do. We could skin this guy alive and feed him to pigs and they would still hate us just as much. We could give him a medal and throw him a friggin parade and they would hate us just as much. The only way to ever appease the Islamic world is to submit to Islamic law, give back the holy lands and face Mecca five times a day. Our actions as a country should never take into account appeasing these people for what they may or may not do. They hate us all; even the apologist freedom haters and even those Muslims that reside within our borders. We're all guilty in their eyes.

Whatever happens to this Soldier should be the result of Military law. He shouldn't get off because of some bullsh*t PTSD defense, and he shouldn't be crucified because we worry about what the Muslim world will think of us.

####ing spot on.

[Daniel]

The updated article mentioned something about him suffering multiple injuries during his 3 or 4 tours, one resulting in the removal of part of his foot. He was told he wasn't going to have to go back for this most recent tour, nor did he want to. Reports are saying that he witnessed his friends leg being blown off the day before he went on this rampage.

Panjwai is full of IEDs for sure so that is very possible.