Red Jacket AR

[hipower]

True, but looking at it as a baseline for features and cost of additions. It is a possible starting point as I have a riducilously low offer on one. But still considering several, among them is the Colt. Not in a great rush at this time, really looking at options and learning while at this. Pistols I have ennough knowledge of the make my way. Rifles are a whole new world for me. Outside of a couple of 22s, haven't shot an AR style more than a half dozen times. I guess that's why I got pulled in after the Wasr. Enjoyed it so much, I want to go deeper. But unfortunately, deeper with budgetary limitations.

[Smith]

Thanks

Makes sense. I hadn't heard anything lately other than those criticizing them because of the show. It is a sad deal when something like this happens because everybody suffers in the end. Those who buy the guns are going to suffer and eventually those at Red Jecket are going to suffer. They have probably not realized it is already too late. The 6 month wait for their products will go away the second they no longer have a show. That is because those who are waiting will cancel their orders when it is no longer to be part of somethign famous.

I have often wondered if the drama isn't a result of the producers planting the seeds of doubt into the minds of those on the show. If you were to hear the same thing over and over again you might start to see it and perhaps this is why Vince left. I don't know if he was going to leave or not but the producers actions sure did not help. And I am sure the producers will use Red Jacket for all its worth then drop them like a hot potato leaving them to wonder what the hell just happened to what was a sucessful business.

Dolomite

No, they will still have a wait. They had backlogs of 6+ months before many had ever heard of them. Of course nearly all the Ak builders had long backlogs, Tromix being the worst. At one point he had a 2 year wait on Saiga builds. As more foreign AK kits dry up, Saiga's become all thats left, and demand continues to rise (thanks Dems!) wait times and prices will only go up. Red Jacket will be around long after the show is gone IMO.

Windham is not in the same class as Colt.

Dolomite

Maybe, maybe not. Colt is not what they were. They have the same issue Red Jacket has ATM. People paying more for a name with moderate QC. Windaham is essentially a Bushmaster at a better price. Kinda the opposite of the Colt. Good quality without paying for the name.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Smith

[k9wh91984]

That's right because new Bushy's rock! Lmao "Had to say it!"

[Smith]

That's right because new Bushy's rock! Lmao "Had to say it!"

Well, Windhams are made by the guys who USE To make Bushmaster's, now as far as the new ones i can't say.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Smith

[hlb14]

Thanks

Makes sense. I hadn't heard anything lately other than those criticizing them because of the show. It is a sad deal when something like this happens because everybody suffers in the end. Those who buy the guns are going to suffer and eventually those at Red Jecket are going to suffer. They have probably not realized it is already too late. The 6 month wait for their products will go away the second they no longer have a show. That is because those who are waiting will cancel their orders when it is no longer to be part of somethign famous.

I have often wondered if the drama isn't a result of the producers planting the seeds of doubt into the minds of those on the show. If you were to hear the same thing over and over again you might start to see it and perhaps this is why Vince left. I don't know if he was going to leave or not but the producers actions sure did not help. And I am sure the producers will use Red Jacket for all its worth then drop them like a hot potato leaving them to wonder what the hell just happened to what was a sucessful business.

Dolomite

i enjoy watching the show cause i feel i learn alittle about guns and how they operate every show, between that show and American Guns i've become somewhat addicted to guns, but the whole Vince leaving (and possibly coming back now) really has me thinking the shows writers are working overtime on the drama... end of thread hijack back on topic

Edited March 9, 2012 by hlb14

[gjohnsoniv]

Personally I would go with a entry level Spikes. I build mine with spikes parts and have had no problems whatsoever out of it. Dolomite is completely correct with statements saying producers plant seeds, the show would be boring if there weren't any fights/arguments. I'm not a huge fan of the show because they make too much of a deal out of the small things and act like they are the only ones who can do what they can do. This seemed really true with the piston driven ar for the nuclear facilities. They made it sound like using a piston driven system was some kind of brand-new idea that only they had thought of. Having said that though I'm pretty sure the show is geared toward audiences who aren't as familiar with firearms.

[alwaysonjohn]

keep us updated on what you end up with! Don't forget to buy an ammo can or two. I would get ammo before the gun!

[blahX3]

I believe that was proven to be false information.

Here is another source for RJF information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Guns
[/CODE]

Edited March 11, 2012 by blahX3

[Dolomite_supafly]

If I was going to buy a Windham I would choose the M&P Sport. The Sport is leaps and bounds better than the Windham.

I will just give you a quick run down of the Sport and why it is such a great gun.

1. The barrel is a 5R rifled barrel.

5R barrels are known for their accuracy regardless of caliber. For whatever reason they just shoot and shoot well. It also increases the velocity by virtue of how the rifling is laid out.

2. The barrel is Melonite treated.

Melonite treatments are far better than any chrome lining as far as hardness and durability. It also offers an exception amount of corrosion resistance. It is more than just a surface coating like chrome, it actually treats the metal and goes subsurface.

3. The bolt is properly heat treated.

This is very important for the long term durability of the firearm. It ensures the headspace will remain in spec longer than those bolts that are not heat treated properly. Poorly heat treated bolts will either wear prematurely or break from being too brittle.

4. It has a barrel twist rate of 8

This twist rate allows you to fire the heaviest bullets that can be fed from a magazine, up to 80 grains. And because it isn't a 7 twist (like most others out there) you can also fire the lightweight varmint style bullets without fear of the jackets seperating.

5. It comes ready to fire.

It comes with a Magpul rear sight while most competitors, even those 100's of dollars more expensive, do not. The sights have been proven for several years now both by those in harms way as well as the weekend shooter. It also includes a Magpul magazine which has also been proven for seveal years now.

6. It is built to the same specs as all other AR's

This means you can upgrade and swap parts to build a gun that suits your wants or needs. And because it is an AR most of the work can be done by the owner and if it is a milspec part it WILL fit.

7. The price

In reality if any other maker were to offer the same features as the Sport has they would be asking 100's of dollars more. The 5R barrel and Melonite treatment were once only offered on high end guns. And included in the price is a warranty that is among the best in the industry.

Up until about 3 months ago the Sport flew under my radar. It wasn't until I was asked about them that I took a serious look at them. I have since become a huge fan of them and recommend them to anyone who wants a quality gun that doesn't break the bank. And if I were in the market for one I would buy a Sport.

Dolomite

[k9wh91984]

I think if you buy any brand name AR on the market right now, it's going to be of good quality ie M&P, Spikes, Windham, BCM, Bushmaster...

[hipower]

OK. Thanks to all who contibuted in this, and several other discussions on the AR. I had decided to go with the Colt 6920 and was looking at several shops for pricing. Then yesterday found a listing on another forum. Yes there are other forums out there, not as good, not as much fun, but I go occasionally to check sale items. Anyway, found a young man with what appeared to be a case of buyers' remorse and set up a meet today. He had purchased a Colt 6920MP-B and after looking at it a few days wasn't happy. Decided he wanted another Colt model. Didn't really save any money on the price as to what a shop price was, but did get a still in box and plastic bag gun with 2 Pmags. so since I was buying anyway, I got what I wanted and still got the opportunity to help someone get what they wanted as well. Seems like a good solution. Yeah, yeah, I know, no pics...no happen. But I'm still the lame old geezer without a digital camera and can't post pics here. Maybe someday I'll get drug into all this new fangled tech and do it. Maybe.

Anyway, thanks again to all for the input.

Now lets see what I can get the hots for next.

Edited March 14, 2012 by hipower

[Guest samiam73]

I've shot one. Solid performer but not worth the wait.

[hipower]

Oh there's very little in a rifle that I'd wait for. Everything I looked at was available to me for immediate pickup. I'm too much of an AR novice to start ordering special guns. If I can't run my paws over it, I ain't waiting to buy.