Misfire Question

[Guest nosnos]

I went to the range last night with my P3AT. I've put three hundred rounds through it with only 2 FTEs. After researching a bit and shooting another 100 I decided that the problem was with me, not the gun. The ol' limp wrist.

Anyway, last night I had a problem that I actually AM concerned about. I was shooting the Remington .380ACP FMJ that you can buy at Wal-Mart. The stuff in the green box. One round didnt fire. I pulled the trigger, and nothing. After waiting a good thirty seconds or so I removed the round and set it aside. After giving it a while (I kept expecting it to go off) I looked at it real close. There was a small indentation where the pin had hit, but it wasnt as deep as the mark left on other ejected casings.

Eventually I decided to try firing it again. I know that maybe this wasnt the best idea but I really wanted to figure out the problem. This time it fired perfectly.

The question is, who is at fault? Gun, ammo, or me? What could cause this to happen? Thanks.

[molonlabetn]

Is it possible that you short-stroked the trigger and released the hammer from the pre-cocked position, instead of drawing it back first? I have done that with mine, and it will misfire about half the time if I don't let the trigger fully return forward.

[Marswolf]

Sounds like the ammo was likely the problem. The gun could cause it, but I doubt it.

I have had a few problems with the Remington green box stuff in the P3AT and other handguns. I have relegated it to the "practice only" ammo pile.

[Guest nosnos]

Yeah. It IS possible that I did that. I guess that's just another thing for me to check out on the range. Just what my wife loves to hear.

"Honey, I really NEED to go to the range again. I can't trust this gun until I figure this one thing out."

Ha ha....

[Guest Mugster]

Occasionally you can get a light primer strike if some gunk gets down in there where the firing pin comes forward through the hole. If it does it repetitively you might have some type of problem.

[Guest darkstar]

I'm gonna go with the ammo....I've tried most of the major brands, Winchester, Fiocchi, Hornady, Speer, etc, etc...the only stuff I have ever had fail to fire is Remington. A couple of times with their UMC brand 9mm and a few times with the green box stuff in .40. Never had an issue with any other brand. Bad batches I guess.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

If the primer strike is the same depth with fired rounds as misfired rounds, THEN I would say that it is the ammo.

Since you say that the misfired round had a shallower FP strike, I would say that it is NOT likely the ammo and more to do with the pistol.

Different FP strike depths is a gun issue, not an ammo issue.

[Guest darkstar]

If the primer strike is the same depth with fired rounds as misfired rounds, THEN I would say that it is the ammo.

Since you say that the misfired round had a shallower FP strike, I would say that it is NOT likely the ammo and more to do with the pistol.

Different FP strike depths is a gun issue, not an ammo issue.

So I'm wondering, would it be possible to have different type primers in the same box of ammo, i.e ones that might be harder than the others? I would think they would have some stringent QC with that stuff and try to have consistency.....just wondering

[Guest nosnos]

I DO feel like it was a gun issue, mostly because it fired the second try and the first strike nade such a shallow dent. The idea about not releasing the trigger all the way might make sense. I need to try it dry firing

[Guest Mugster]

So I'm wondering, would it be possible to have different type primers in the same box of ammo, i.e ones that might be harder than the others? I would think they would have some stringent QC with that stuff and try to have consistency.....just wondering

Probably not. When they develop or work up a load to whatever specs they are trying to hold, that includes a particular batch of primers.

[Marswolf]

I'm going to change my vote. It does sound more like some sort of junk preventing full movement of the firing pin. It can happen to just about any gun. It also may never happen again.

I'd take the gun down to where I could fully clean and examine the firing pin and it's channel.

[Guest sling]

I'd take the gun down to where I could fully clean and examine the firing pin and it's channel.

+1 A good idea. Check all your springs too... Mr Murphy likes to play around sometimes.

[Guest canynracer]

ummm...i would say check it (the gun), but...1 round out of how many had this problem?

practice your "clearing drill" and move along..

[Guest db99wj]

ummm...i would say check it (the gun), but...1 round out of how many had this problem?

practice your "clearing drill" and move along..

+1 That's kinda what I am thinking. 1 misfire is or can be a fluke IMO, if you start getting multiple misfires is when to start worrying. I would clean the gun, and keep on shoot'n.

[BigPoppa]

Is it possible that you short-stroked the trigger and released the hammer from the pre-cocked position, instead of drawing it back first? I have done that with mine, and it will misfire about half the time if I don't let the trigger fully return forward.

+1

I kept having this problem with my P3AT and I was getting ready to send it back to Cocoa Beach. Somebody told me to make sure I was releasing the trigger all the way. I wasn't. I started, and it's better now.

I bet this is the problem.

[molonlabetn]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, this is my only complaint with the P3AT... honestly, if they would have designed the gun to hold the hammer with more tension, a stronger spring perhaps, firing from the short reset could be made to be very reliable. The initial pull would be harder maybe, but it's really not an issue as it is.

I'm very happy with the size of the P3AT, but I will replace it with a Kahr or a J-frame at the next opportunity.

[ftncityfatboy]

after reading this thread, I thought I would chime in. Went to the range today taking my Springfield XD 9mm and newly purchased Kel-Tec PF-9. I had purchased some BB ammo the same day I purchased the PF-9. So, to try to stay legal (not a HCP holder yet), i locked the gun in the truck cab, placed the ammo in the back of the truck and went my merry way. As it was late upon arriving home, I forgot to put the ammo in the cab or take it inside. Guess what, it rained. It didn't just rain, it RAINED!!! Four boxes of 50 soaked. I researched the affects of water on ammo and everything I read said it SHOULD be ok. Well, I took two boxes of the once soaked ammo to the range (I dried it off the day after I realized it was left in the rain) and fired it not only in my XD but the PF-9 as well. I had 16 FTF rounds out of 100. Could the ammo powder have gotten wet??? I have never had a FTF in the XD, but the first three shots out of the PF-9 where FTF, I thought "oh s**t", this gun has issues. Am I safe in thinking ammo can FTF once wet even though it was properly dried???? Sorry if this sounds foolish, I'm still learning and I am just trying to pin point the problem. Thanks for you help

[NuTcAsE]

after reading this thread, I thought I would chime in. Went to the range today taking my Springfield XD 9mm and newly purchased Kel-Tec PF-9. I had purchased some BB ammo the same day I purchased the PF-9. So, to try to stay legal (not a HCP holder yet), i locked the gun in the truck cab, placed the ammo in the back of the truck and went my merry way. As it was late upon arriving home, I forgot to put the ammo in the cab or take it inside. Guess what, it rained. It didn't just rain, it RAINED!!! Four boxes of 50 soaked. I researched the affects of water on ammo and everything I read said it SHOULD be ok. Well, I took two boxes of the once soaked ammo to the range (I dried it off the day after I realized it was left in the rain) and fired it not only in my XD but the PF-9 as well. I had 16 FTF rounds out of 100. Could the ammo powder have gotten wet??? I have never had a FTF in the XD, but the first three shots out of the PF-9 where FTF, I thought "oh s**t", this gun has issues. Am I safe in thinking ammo can FTF once wet even though it was properly dried???? Sorry if this sounds foolish, I'm still learning and I am just trying to pin point the problem. Thanks for you help

Yes. Did you try fresh ammo to see how it ran?

[ftncityfatboy]

Yes. Did you try fresh ammo to see how it ran?

NO, i only took the two boxes, I did take some JHP to see how those fired in both firearms and no issues. what do i do with the FTF ammo?

[NuTcAsE]

Pull the bullets & reload the brass.

[Farman]

I dry my wet ammo in the microwave.

[Oh Shoot]

NO, i only took the two boxes, I did take some JHP to see how those fired in both firearms and no issues. what do i do with the FTF ammo?

Just dump at range next time you are there.

- OS

[SpacemanSpiff]

I dry my wet ammo in the microwave.

Hmmmm ... I'll try that next time.

I have had a similar problem with a case of UMC .357 sig ammo that I bought for my Sig P229. Some times I can't fire 10 rounds without one not firing. There is a primer strike, but no bang. I have even tried (which I guess I shouldn't have) to keep pulling the trigger until it fires. Most times the 2nd time works, other times I could keep pulling the trigger and nothing. I have never had any problems with any other ammo that I've put through that gun so I'm assuming it's that ammo.

[Mousegun]

O.K. here is the answer to your problem.

You short stroked the trigger and in doing so caused the hammer to drop from a half cock position that did not give it enough punch to ignite the primer.

Kel Tec recently released a new hammer block that prevents this from happening. If you do short stroke the trigger, the hammer will not fall unless you allow the trigger to go fully forward and reset the hammer mechanism so the trigger works properly.

You can call Kel Tec and they should send you the new hammer block for free. If you go to this site and do a search, it will give you the procedure to put the block in. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, you can send the gun to Kel Tec but it will take a while to get back.

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=104

[enfield]

My first observation is that light primer strikes are usually the fault of the weapon, not the ammo. Cleaning might help.

My second observation is that target ammo (and reloads) are MUCH more likely to FTF than premium hunting or SD ammo. It's limited data, but I've had FTF's with 20-year-old reloads and with target ammo, but never with premium (e.g. Remington Express) or SD ammo (Federal, Remington & Winchester). I shot about 400 new .40 reloads in a training class a couple of years ago and had zero problems. My .30 carbine reloads were 100% reliable in 1985, but they aren't now. Maybe I need to shoot more often.