The true cost or reloading?

[JeffsSig]

Ok guys tear me apart. This is what I came up with for the 223 round.

I know many out there say loading your own ammo will SAVE you money. So I thought Id try to figure out if thats true.

I will not factor in the cost of the equipment. As over time the per round will all but disappear.

These prices are not the best but they represent fair ammo (but one I feel is as accurate as most high end factory loads) and not the cheap plinking loads.

All this is for 223 rifle ammo

Low cost CFE223 surplus powder 100$ for 8 pounds This will do about 2200 loads.

Bullets Sierra 55gr 190$ per thousand

Primers CCI small rifle 40$ per thousand

Brass I am using some I have saved up ( I will get what 7-8 loads on each?) so I did not factor in brass price But Looking the best price on once fired brass runs about 5 cents each

Ok this comes to $5.70 for a box of 20 or 28.5 cents per round. This is for ammo so far I have found to be much more accurate than lets say PMC in this price range. You can find PMC for around 5.99$ a box.

Now lets factor in my time spent.

Yes I use a single stage press and I know a progressive can crank out near 10 times as much ammo as I can with a single stage. BUT the progressive will only produce ammo near as accurate as the PMC. ( this is due to the powder drop not being 100% consistent) Plus a few other factors.

A break down of what I do.

Clean the brass in a tumbler. My time per 100 rounds 10 mins. The tumbler will run for a few hours but my time is loading the media and brass then unloading it and shaking the media from the brass

De-capping, and checking the brass for dents and cracks 100 cases 40 mins.

Check each case for OAL and cut to size if needed and cleaning the lube off . 100 cases 60 mins

New primers. With my hand held I can do 100 cases in 5 mins

Powder charge and seating the bullet. Stage each round in a block the weigh each charge before dropped in the case and then using the press to seat the bullet and spot checking one round for OAL every 10 rounds. 100 rounds takes me 80 mins.

Total time invested in 100 rounds is about 2 1/2 hours. This time is conservative by my standards.

Plus weighing and sorting the cases by head stamps. I didnt factor that time in

So a box of 20 rounds takes 30 mins and if I pay myself 8$ and hour thats $4 a box.

So we add 4$ to the 5.70 for a total 9.70 a box of 20 223 rounds that in my opinion would cost around 20$ to get the same accuracy I am saving about half IF I pay myself 8$ and hour.

Would I set and do this for 8$ and hour for someone other than myself? NO

Id do it for maybe 15$ or double that and still have as accurate ammo as some of the best factory ammo out there.

I am sure some will not agree with my prices and or times I have listed. This is what I have found and I tried to be fair and Ill be happy to listen to any and all who may have a different view than I do.

And I am sure as time goes by my times will get better but I do not see that by much. As I will not load any rounds that are not 100% checked and consistent.

[scoutfsu]

If you're paying $190 for 55gr bullets and $40 for primers, you are getting screwed. Buy primers in lots of 5 or 10k and try and go in with someone and you can cut the hazmat/shipping cost. You can get down to the $25 range if you try. I'm reloading for approx. 13.5 cents per round.

If you're reloading for cost savings, I think you'd be better off buying in bulk. 5k primers, minimum 8 lbs powder, minimum 1k bullets, etc. I just bought 40lbs of powder to cut my costs. I figure it will eventually get used and I would've bought it anyways at a higher price (albeit slower pace).

Check out what David has. There are a lot of other good places out there too. I've had good luck with RMR for bulk bullets.

[xd shooter]

I guess it's nice to have a few hundred $$ setting to buy enough to save some $$....

I load to have bullets when I want or need bullets. Not to mention I love the addiction!!

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I won't speak of the money saved specifically for .223, and I won't argue with your claim

of the single stage being more accurate, but the argument of the 8.00/hr laborer doesn't

matter to me. I can find the time to do it on an occasional basis and enjoy it. I'm not concerned

with what someone else does with their time.

If you are reloading pistol rounds you will save a bunch in the long term and if you are loading

rifle, say .223, you will save over a longer term. Your a little high on the primers. I've picked up

several thousand pieces of .223 for nothing, but I have to check each one out for type and

quality. If you want to reload say 6.8 SPC the price goes up quite a bit compared to Silver State

loads and I can safely say I save a lot.

Reloading via single vs progressive presses is another discussion altogether.

Edited March 5, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[Guest canebreaker]

That sounds about right. Load your own for what you want.

I load 38 spl. for plinking targets. I have some brass that was once fired by me. I have bought a lot more for about 2 or 3 cents each.

The last small pistol primers cost about 2.3 cent each. I light load bullseye, hp-38 or aa #2 at 2.4 to 3 gr. The last bullets I bought cost 6.3 cent each. But I pour a lot too. I to used a single stage press, now trying a progressive press. That again has some time to it, if a primer is caught side ways. Time pulling the bullet and decaping again. Since they won't fit the shell holder. I figure about 6.00 to 9.00 per 100 reloads. I'm watching tv while loading, so time is out the window.

Edited March 5, 2012 by canebreaker

[SonnyCrockett]

i dont reload to save money

Edited March 5, 2012 by SonnyCrockett

[Caster]

I don't count my time as worth anything. I LOVE to reload. Most of the time, I'd rather reload as shoot. It's my hobby, no different than restoring some junky old car, or building model airplanes. You never approach a hobby from a savings standpoint. So any cost to labor is out the door for me.

As was said before, you're paying too much for components. $35/K for primers at the most. Cheaper if you buy them by the case.

What kind of 55g Sierra is that? If you're paying $190/K for a FMJ you REALLY need to see DLM [David] at the next gunshow. Drop $190 at his table and see if he can't send you home with quite a bit more. The last .223 bullets I bought from him was around $100/K and that was for 62g Steel core SS109's. He was selling primed Lake City brass for $100/K last I checked. As to your powder, that CFE is supposed to be pretty good, but if it's about economy, you can save around $10 per jug using WC846 and I have had VERY VERY good results using it in both .223 and .308. In fact, once this last jug of AA2520 is gone, I won't be buying any other type of rifle powder.

To save money reloading, you HAVE to love doing it, and you have constantly look for fat to trim. Look at me: I really got into casting because I have a steady source of free lead. I couldn't afford NOT TO!!! BUT, as time went on I absolutely fell in love with it. Well, anything you love doing costs you nothing labor-wise. I still don't actually save any money if you're looking at this from a spouses point of view. I still spend a lot more money on reloading than I should. The one thing I do get; I never leave the gun range wishing I would have had a few more rounds to shoot. I shoot my fill, every time. Wether that's money saved or not is a matter of opinion.

[FIRERESCUEO2]

The only time I hate reloading is when I run out of powder!

I buy in bulk as much as possible as others have mentioned and change components when/where possible to shave off some $$ - but I don't look at the time investment - it's just a hobby that I love so the labor is free in my mind. Besides, I can do it a home and that's where I enjoy being if I'm not at the range.

[Caster]

Besides, I can do it a home and that's where I enjoy being if I'm not at the range.

That's right.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The only time you can your time as a value is if you are reloading instead of going to work.

You can find components a lot cheaper than you have listed. Walmart sells primers for $30.90/1K.

Dolomite

[Guest canebreaker]

It's just a labor of love kinda thing.

I told my other half the other day, if I buy 1 sleeve of primers, they will cost this much, if 2, this much. She asked how about 3 and 4. WOW. I didn't expect that from her. So I have 5 sleeves coming.

I took her shopping with me today to harbor freight. She disappears while I'm pushing the cart around and looking for things I need/want. She shows up with a basket full of stuff. "I found these shaded safety glasses, their half price. These earmuffs, if the kids go shooting with us. Didn't you say you needed some bottle brushes, how about this 9 pack? We need to go to dollar tree, the clear safety glasses are cheaper there." Dang, she had found about half the things I was thinking about getting.

Then on the way home, " can we go shooting tomorrow before I have to go to work?"

I just told her I needed to check prices of bullets online. She said to double check extra bulk order to save on shipping.

[Dolomite_supafly]

In order to get 7-8 loads on each piece of brass you need to do one of two things. Either anneal the case necks or use a neck sizing die and a Redding body die (two seperate operations). If you are using one of those mandrel types that pulls the mandrel back through the case neck you are work hardening the brass a lot. I know I would get 4-5 loads per peice if I didn't anneal the case necks. After that I would start to get splits. At one point I was obsessed with annealing brass. Since I have started using the Lee collet die and a Redding body die the primer pockets wear out before the case necks do.

Also, to save time do not measure each case to see if it needs trimmed. Measure about 10 of the lot and if any come in over then trim all of the cases. I found it easier and quicker to just trim all of them than to fool with measuring every case.

Here is my all in one station for trimming and case prep:

I trim the brass, then uniform the flashole, then chamfer the outside, then the inside then trim to length again because the brass will move around a bit during the other steps. I took the piece of angle aluminum and rilled and tapped it 8-32 for all the tools to thread into. It literally takes me about 15-20 seconds per piece of brass.

No need to recheck OAL of your loaded bullets. Once you have your die set the OAL should stay the same. If you are using a Lee and afraid the seating pin will back out just use some electrical tape to hold it in place. Or use a sharpie to put a witness mark to see if it is backing out.

You didn't mention it but if you are using a electronic scale you are slowing your production down.

Dolomite

[tnhawk]

Some of my reloading bench time is offset by the time and gas spent trying to find ammo during times it is scarce.I made several trips to find the store shelf empty

[Jonnin]

While some of your costs are a little high, the bullets are VERY high. I see $119 per 1k of the hornady bullets that I like, the 55 grain boat tails. And those are pretty darn good bullets. http://www.targetsportsusa.com/p-2484-hornady-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-55-grain-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-bag-of-100.aspx for an example of these.

You can get bullets for even less --- there are often deals on second quality and pulled bullets if you want ultra cheap, I have seen them as low as $75 per 1000 but you have to spend the time to find those deals and not care about the quality of the bullet very much (short range rapid fire ammo!).

190 per 1000 is insane for 223.

[McAllyn]

The only time you can your time as a value is if you are reloading instead of going to work.

Dolomite

This ^

I reload instead of watching TV, surfing the web, or some other time-wasting task, therefore, I actually "make" money by reloading, not lose it.

I rarely hear of anyone who would put a time value on their hobby. None of the model railroaders, RC racers, stamp and coin collectors, etc. that I know don't figure the cost of their time spent, because they are doing something that makes them happy. Many reloaders do not look at the task as a way to save money, but actually a way to shoot more quantity, shoot more quality, and exercise their minds.

The real question about reloading savings is the arguement that says that because you make your ammo cheaper, you shoot more frequently, which eats up whatever savings you may have attained. That can only be answered by the individual.

Mac

[gregintenn]

You are correct about not saving a lot on reloading 223 ammo. The thing is that I can load 218 Bee ammo for about the same price. Try buying loaded ammo in that caliber!!??

[Jonnin]

I do put a time value on reloading. Its fun sometimes, sure, but so is my job. Its tedious/boring at other times. Once you have a recipe worked out and its been tested and all, all that is left is pulling the handle over and over. If I did not limit it to 15 - 30 min per session I would get burnout pretty fast.

[221 Fireball]

You are correct about not saving a lot on reloading 223 ammo. The thing is that I can load 218 Bee ammo for about the same price. Try buying loaded ammo in that caliber!!??

Agree Greg, 223 is a bad example, as would be 7.62x39 or 9mm as these are about the cheapest rounds you can buy. In fact, as a reloader, these three calibers I just mentioned are the ones I DO NOT reload for but instead I look for gun show bulk buys. However my rifles, such as my 6.5x55 or 7mm/08 will yield a much higher savings. I look at the accurate, custom loads I can 'roll' versus what I pay for a premium factory load (like $37 for Hornady Superfomance 6.5s for a box of 20) And as mentioned throughout this thread, we don't figure in labor as it is ...IMO...a relaxing pass time to crank out a box in the evening and admiring the finished work. Just something about those shiney bullets you hold in your hand before seating. I believe us reloader are really akin to someone who ties flies. Bet they could buy them just as cheap at Bass Pro, but when you catch that trout on a fly your hands tied, well, that's how I feel about dropping a nice 8pt with a bullet I loaded, as well as punching a bullseye down range with the same. And thats all I have to say about that (Forrest Gump)

[Guest Larry]

We had a gunshop yrs back and when we sold out I kept all the ammo and components, most of my loading was 45acp. I cast my own bullets and had a free source for bullet metal. I figured my cost then with free brass and bullets, not counting the electricticy for lights and leadpot at under .02 per round, which was very close. Bullet metal can still be had if you look for it, tireweights work very well and I have shot many 1000's of them. I would probably say now about .06 per round or close to it not counting equipment cost. I probably can reload for life with all the components I have left.

[timcalhoun]

Here ya go.....

powder valley has winchester small rifle primers @ 25 per 1K.

Buy a case of 55g FMJ from Montanna gold @ 80 per 1K.

I will usually order with a couple of friends and split the hazmat/shipping on powder and primers and buy in bulk to save a little extra too.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I reload 45 ACP for under a nickel a round using quality components and bullets I cast. I can buy cheap primers and miserly powder and drop the cost to <.03 a round. Buying all the components is still under .13 a round.

For 223 I do not load blaster ammo. I load what I would consider match grade ammunition. .09 in powder, .18 for the bullet and .03 for the primer. So for .30 a round I have a bullet loaded with 69 grain SMK's that is capable of groups under .3" center to center. I have found no factory ammo that can match that accuracy and very few that can match or beat the cost.

For me the benefit is in quality not savings.

Dolomite

[dlm37015]

well to try to help keep reloading cost down for tgo members 844,842 or 846 85.00 per 8 pound jug

55 grain lake city bullets 75.00 per 1000

primers are already starting to get tight 30.00 per 1000 for winchester or cci

and i still have primed lake city brass for 100.00 per 1000

i will hold these prices for tgo members as long as i can

[LagerHead]

This ^

I reload instead of watching TV, surfing the web, or some other time-wasting task, therefore, I actually "make" money by reloading, not lose it.

I rarely hear of anyone who would put a time value on their hobby. None of the model railroaders, RC racers, stamp and coin collectors, etc. that I know don't figure the cost of their time spent, because they are doing something that makes them happy. Many reloaders do not look at the task as a way to save money, but actually a way to shoot more quantity, shoot more quality, and exercise their minds.

The real question about reloading savings is the arguement that says that because you make your ammo cheaper, you shoot more frequently, which eats up whatever savings you may have attained. That can only be answered by the individual.

Mac

This is what I was going to say. My reloading time replaces time when I am doing nothing constructive so it doesn't cost me a dime for my time. And the fact that I am very relaxed and enjoy doing it makes it that much better.

[Caster]

^^^ Told you!

[Jonnin]

The other issue that no one mentions...

the rock bottom cheapest ammo is often pretty bad stuff. It is usually steel cased (hard on extractors, not reusable by any but the most frugal folks). It is often inconsistent, making large groups at any distance past point blank range. It has unknown coatings and chemistry in it, making very bad smells that I personally am afraid to inhale. It shoots sparklers out the end of your barrel (unburnt powder?). It is, by and large, junky (a few brands are half decent, but this can vary by caliber as to which ones).

This is what you are comparing to equally priced handloads which have:

reusable brass cases

reasonably to highly consistent loading (we can only assume the reloader is doing it right)

no harsh smell/sparks/etc

The reloads made using materials that are the same price as the rock bottom cheap ammo are as good as the mid-grade factory ammo (pmc 223 for example) -- which is a bit more expensive than something like brown bear.