Cool Springs Mall hit with series of vehicle burglaries

[daddyo]

http://www.tennessea...ext|FRONTPAGE|s

"Police have increased area patrols of the mall and they recommend steps such as retaining possession of items like purses, GPS units, and laptop computers when leaving the vehicle."

Noticeably absent is the mention of firearms. Since I can't carry mine inside the mall, then I have to leave it in my car for someone to steal.

This is exactly WHY I don't go to the mall.

Edited March 1, 2012 by DaddyO

[QuietDan]

Many, most, nearly all malls that prohibit firearms are going down the tubes. For starters, they are giving up 5 to 10 percent of their customer base from HCP holders and their families that refuse to patronize them. Additionally, they are leaving themselves wide-open to the depredations of various thieves, robbers and rapists. They do all of this while clinging to a discredited ideology that says that guns are bad and that crime is banned along with the guns. We know this to be false, provably false. If they are going to be so stupid as to deny honest but armed customers in favor of dishonest . . . and still armed . . . customers, then they deserve to go out of business. Hello Hickory Hollow. Hello Rivergate. Hello Cool Springs?

Edited March 1, 2012 by QuietDan

[monkeylizard]

Since I can't carry mine inside the mall, then I have to leave it in my car for someone to steal.

Cool Springs Galleria is posted at most* parking lot entrances. You can't even leave it in your car and be legal.

*I'm pretty sure that if you enter from Logan's parking lot, you won't be driving past a sign, then you can enter via a department store where no doors are posted. That's to follow the letter of the law, but their anti-gun stance is pretty evident, so I'm not sure how that might be seen in court.

Edited March 2, 2012 by monkeylizard

[Caster]

Sears isn't posted and neither is the mall entrance from Sears.

Cool Springs Galleria, I have said for the last couple years: The future home of one of Franklins largest vacant buildings. Soon to join the ranks of Bellevue mall, Harding Mall and 100 oaks Mall.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Caster

[guntalk]

Monkeylizard, to say that storing a weapon in your car at Cool Springs Mall is illegal is stretching it. What law states this? The worst they could do is tell you to leave.

[guntalk]

And for what it's worth, I never spend money at CSM because of their gunbuster policy. Screw them. There are plenty of other places around the mall in Brentwood, Franklin and Nashville where I will go instead.

[bubbadavis]

Monkeylizard, to say that storing a weapon in your car at Cool Springs Mall is illegal is stretching it. What law states this? The worst they could do is tell you to leave.

If you drive by one of their signs, legally posting the property, even leaving it in the car is technically illegal. You carried past a legal posting just to get to the parking lot.

[sbroomheadsr]

Unless your vision is better than 20/20, like say 20/1, and you drive 2.33 mph there is no way to know what that sign says as you drive by. It looks a lot like a "you can't smoke on our campus" signs seen at colleges and hospitals.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bubbadavis]

I'm not willing to take a chance with having to make that argument to a LEO or in court... I agree the sign is too small (in my opinion) but it does have the legal language on it.

[monkeylizard]

Monkeylizard, to say that storing a weapon in your car at Cool Springs Mall is illegal is stretching it. What law states this? The worst they could do is tell you to leave.

First, welcome to TGO.

Second, the law that states it is TCA 39-17-1359*. The one that describes how to legally post.

Here is section 3 C of that law:

( C) A building, property or a portion of a building or property, shall be considered properly posted in accordance with this section if one (1) or both of the following is displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited:

(i) The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle; or

(ii) The posting sign described in this subdivision ( b )(3).

Notice how it says property in there. Cool Springs Galleria is posted at all street entrances to the property itself, with the one known (by me) exception being the Logan's parking lot. But since that's not really an entrance primarily used by persons entering the property, even that's kind of pushing it. The doors to the mall are also posted, but not the doors to the department stores, and not the interior entrances from the department stores to the mall. By the letter of the law, you could enter through Logan's (see above...this may not be compliant) then enter through a department store and not have carried past a sign. Otherwise, simply entering the parking lot is passing by a legally posted sign and a violation of the law.

In that case, the worst they can do is detain you until the Franklin PD arrives and have you charged with a Class B misdemeanor with a possible fine of up to $500, along with whatever trespassing charges their lawyer may try to toss your way. The cops may keep your gun for a while and once the TDOS gets wind of it (and they will), you could be losing your HCP. That's not very likely, but it is the worst case and is far worse than just being asked to leave.

Does anyone know if there has been a case yet of an HCP holder carrying past a proper posting and being charged with something?

*You can find TN Code Annotated items here:

http://www.lexisnexi...ttopics/tncode/

Edit to fix the auto-smilies in the middle of the TCA language

Edited March 3, 2012 by monkeylizard

[Volzfan]

For me it's easier to shop elsewhere rather than to be a test case for the screwed up law. If they don't want my money then I know there are others that do! Sure there are ways into most of these malls but who knows what some idiot judge would do if you had to appear before him/her on this type of charge. Not me!

Edited March 3, 2012 by Volzfan

[daddyo]

For me it's easier to shop elsewhere rather than to be a test case for the screwed up law. If they don't want my money then I know there are others that do! Sure there are ways into most of these malls but who knows what some idiot judge would do if you had to appear before him/her on this type of charge. Not me!

Believe me, they don't want your money. I've written them before about it and got no reply. That told me what I needed to know.

[RobertNashville]

Unless your vision is better than 20/20, like say 20/1, and you drive 2.33 mph there is no way to know what that sign says as you drive by. It looks a lot like a "you can't smoke on our campus" signs seen at colleges and hospitals.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You could argue that in court and after a few hundred dollars for your attorney you might win but why would you put yourself through that?

Perhaps the better question, why give ANY business (or mall that the business is is) that posts against carry????

I give my custom to businesses that respect my right to carry and I don't give it to businesses that don't...I highly encourage others to do the same.

[DaveTN]

Anyone been cited yet for carrying past a sign?

[RobertNashville]

Anyone been cited yet for carrying past a sign?

Without someone knowledgeable of every charge in every jurisdiction how would anyone know?

That aside, what difference does it make if someone has been charged or not?

[monkeylizard]

Because it would be nice to know how the courts interpret the language in the law about a sign being plainly visible and needing to be a gunbuster or contain specific langauge. If someone was charged for carrying past a quarter-sized gunbuster like you'll find at the Metro Nashville libraries and at Regal cinemas, or one clustered up with 20 other stickers on the doors advertising various items, is that different than carrying past the 12" gunbuster dead-center all alone on the door of The Gold Rush stores? If someone was charged at a Costco, Outback, etc with a "please don't carry here" sign that is not a gunbuster and does not contain the language specified by the law, would the court dismiss the case?

I'm all for not supporting a business that posts, but sometimes you can go right past a less-than-obvious sign unintentionally. There are also times when family obligations require me to go to one of those places, like my wife wanting to go to Costco. I'd like to know where I stand in the court's eyes on those issue, since theirs is the only one that really matters.

Edited March 4, 2012 by monkeylizard

[RobertNashville]

Because it would be nice to know how the courts interpret the language in the law about a sign being plainly visible and needing to be a gunbuster or contain specific langauge. If someone was charged for carrying past a quarter-sized gunbuster like you'll find at the Metro Nashville libraries and at Regal cinemas, or one clustered up with 20 other stickers on the doors advertising various items, is that different than carrying past the 12" gunbuster dead-center all alone on the door of The Gold Rush stores? If someone was charged at a Costco, Outback, etc with a "please don't carry here" sign that is not a gunbuster and does not contain the language specified by the law, would the court dismiss the case?

I'm all for not supporting a business that posts, but sometimes you can go right past a less-than-obvious sign unintentionally. There are also times when family obligations require me to go to one of those places, like my wife wanting to go to Costco. I'd like to know where I stand in the court's eyes on those issue, since theirs is the only one that really matters.

Oh I guess it would be nice to know but I don't think knowing is possible unless some "big story" breaks that we can all follow.

We may never know because most likely, the person carrying would simply be asked to leave - nothing further should happen unless the person carrying makes an ass of himself.

[DaveTN]

Without someone knowledgeable of every charge in every jurisdiction how would anyone know?

Umm…. Because it’s happened to them?

That aside, what difference does it make if someone has been charged or not?

Being charged with carrying past a sign probably is near the top of the list of topics that generate chatter. I’m just curious if it’s ever happened. I talked to Murfreesboro cop and he said he’s never heard of it happening; they just tell people to leave, and if they don’t they are arrested for trespass. But he said he hasn’t heard of that happening either.

I don’t look closely at doors when I enter buildings so it matters to me okay?

[monkeylizard]

We may never know because most likely, the person carrying would simply be asked to leave - nothing further should happen unless the person carrying makes an ass of himself.

Yes, that is the most likely outcome, but not the only one. I didn't ask if anyone has carried past a sign and been asked to leave. I'm sure that happens and nothing ever comes of it. That is probably the usual outcome of carrying past a sign and being "made". I asked if anyone knows of an actual court case yet where a charge was filed for violating TCA's posting law. Knowing where the courts stand on the interpretation of that law's language would be beneficial to all HCP holders. It's like the HCP defense to having a firearm on school property not having the "intent to go armed" phrase. How do the courts interpret that? Is the HCP a defense so long as the other rules (no touching, doesn't leave the vehicle, etc.) are followed, or would you have to unload and separate before reaching school property for the defense to apply? We can get attorney opinions, and even an AG opinion o that stuff, but until a court case comes along, we don't really know for sure.

Edited March 4, 2012 by monkeylizard

[RobertNashville]

Umm…. Because it’s happened to them?

Well; it may have never happened to anyone who routinely visits TGO and would happen to read this thread, see the question and respond...we would have better odds playing the lottery. Unless someone is expending the resources to track it; we likely aren't going to know if it's happened, how often it's happened and what the outcome was.

Being charged with carrying past a sign probably is near the top of the list of topics that generate chatter. I’m just curious if it’s ever happened. I talked to Murfreesboro cop and he said he’s never heard of it happening; they just tell people to leave, and if they don’t they are arrested for trespass. But he said he hasn’t heard of that happening either.

I don’t look closely at doors when I enter buildings so it matters to me okay?

I wouldn't expect it to happen much if it's ever actually happened.

If we are HCP holders then we are, by definition, law abiding people...law abiding people at least try not to break the law. If that's true then there aren't very many HCP holders knowingly walking past a posting against carry and for those that do, either on purpose or by accident, it's probably unlikely that they are going to get caught unless they are carrying openly or do something stupid.

[RobertNashville]

Yes, that is the most likely outcome, but not the only one. I didn't ask if anyone has carried past a sign and been asked to leave. I'm sure that happens and nothing ever comes of it. That is probably the usual outcome of carrying past a sign and being "made". I asked if anyone knows of an actual court case yet where a charge was filed for violating TCA's posting law. Knowing where the courts stand on the interpretation of that law's language would be beneficial to all HCP holders. It's like the HCP defense to having a firearm on school property not having the "intent to go armed" phrase. How do the courts interpret that? Is the HCP a defense so long as the other rules (no touching, doesn't leave the vehicle, etc.) are followed, or would you have to unload and separate before reaching school property for the defense to apply? We can get attorney opinions, and even an AG opinion o that stuff, but until a court case comes along, we don't really know for sure.

Probably the best person to ask would be John Harris, he's an attorney and executive director of the TFA...I suspect that if anyone has been charged he may be the most likely to have heard about.

[ProjectDexter]

Glad I found this post, I've carried in the galleria a bunch of times cause I haven't seen the signs on the doors, guess I'm in the dumb and blind category for not noticing the signs on the road.

Edited May 27, 2012 by ProjectDexter

[monkeylizard]

Don't feel bad. I would have never noticed the parking lot entrance signs if someone on here hadn't mentioned them. I did notice the doors though, and that none of the dept. store entrances are posted. But the parking lot osts make all that moot anyway.

[Guest Victor9er]

Hamilton Place Mall here in Chatt-town is like that also. They have signs posted along the outer rim of the parking lot. The wording is small and it's next to impossible to read the "essay" that's printed on there, but the gunbuster symbol at the top is pretty clear.

There's a much smaller mall down the road in Hixson, Northgate Mall, much less shopping to choose from but it's not posted at least.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Victor9er