Mississippi "concealed" carry

[maroonandwhite]

I live in TN but work in MS. I did a little reasearch last night and discovered I may have had my MS carry laws all confused. Someone who is more knowledgeable please enlighten me. I initially thought that my weapon had to be concealed (concealed as in not visible at all) in order to carry in public. From what I have been reading MS considers a holstered weapon in plain view to be partially concealed with that term being used in the statute. So if I am open carrying as I would in TN I am actually partly concealed by MS standards? I could not find what there definition of concealed was other than what people said on forums. Thanks for any input.

[tnhawk]

www.handgunlaw.us & www.uscarry.com should have the information on the current laws of MS.

Section 45-9-101 allows for concealed carry. The only time I open carry in MS is at a rifle range.

Edited February 29, 2012 by tnhawk

[maroonandwhite]

Thanks TNhawk. That is my understanding as well. The "gray area" I can find nothing about in the law is what MS considers concealed. Let me also state that I almost always carry concealed. The only reason I am interested in this is for work. As we all know it gets hot here in the summer and an OWB holster feels alot better some days. Everywhere else I will carry concealed.

[MississippiBoy]

As long as you have a TN HCP it shouldn't matter. Mississippi recognizes the TN HCP, and that allows you to carry open or concealed in both TN and MS. I assume that you do have the TN HCP since you said that you carry concealed.

[Volzfan]

Here is a good forum in MS that a friend of mine runs. They will have all of the info that you need.

http://www.msgunowners.com/

[maroonandwhite]

I have looked at almost all of those sights and the concensus seems to be that the MS constitution guarantees the right to carry a firearm and only allow the regulation of concealed carry. Also it appears that the courts ruled a firearm in a holster as partially concealed so you would have to have a permit to carry that way. I am still looking though.....

[peejman]

I find this to be a good resource... http://www.handgunlaw.us/

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/mississippi.pdf

[maroonandwhite]

Well I tried calling the Hwy dept but couldn't get an answer. Based on all of my research I have decided that it is not illegal to open carry in MS. The constitution itself says only concealed carry may be regulated. Good enough for me. Again I don't plan on exercising OC outside of my workplace.

[maroonandwhite]

I just sent the following email to the dept. head over the firearms permits. I will post up his response.

Good morning Mr. Williams.

I have a question for you regarding the open carry of a firearm in MS by a valid handgun carry permit holder. I have read the MS laws regarding the topic but I am still confused and am hoping to get a better understanding of the laws.

Statue 45-9-101 section 18 states "Nothing in this section shall be construed to require or allow the registration, documentation or providing of serial numbers with regard to any firearm. Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of1972."

When I reference statute 97-37-1 section 1 is states" Except as otherwise provided in Section 45-9-101, any person who carries, concealed in whole or in part, any bowie knife, dirk knife, butcher knife, switchblade knife, metallic knuckles, blackjack, slingshot, pistol, revolver, or any rifle with a barrel of less than sixteen (16) inches in length, or any shotgun with a barrel of less than eighteen (18) inches in length, machine gun or any fully automatic firearm or deadly weapon, or any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not it is accompanied by a firearm, or uses or attempts to use against another person any imitation firearm, shall upon conviction be

punished as follows."

The "in whole or in part" statement is what confuses me. I could not find the exact case but I have read that the attorney general once ruled in a case that a handgun worn in a holster is considered concealed.

Finally looking at the MS state constitution Article 3 section 12 it states "The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.

To me that statement is pretty clear that the only method of carrying a firearm that me be regulated is carrying concealed. Since that is the case I would be led to believe that if I am a valid permit holder and carry my weapon on my side in a holster in plain sight it could be considered either open carry or concealed carry by the law. Either way I should be considered carrying legaly.

If you can elaborate on this I would greatly appreciate it. There are many people that are unsure of the laws as am I. Thanks!

[Oh Shoot]

Why not ask the folks who do it?

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?108-Mississippi

- OS

[maroonandwhite]

I think they are pretty much in the same boat. They have opinions on it and apparently do it with no problems. I know I am not the first person to email someone hoping to get an answer but we will see.

[monkeylizard]

As long as you have a TN HCP it shouldn't matter. Mississippi recognizes the TN HCP, and that allows you to carry open or concealed in both TN and MS. I assume that you do have the TN HCP since you said that you carry concealed.

That is wronger than a wrong thing that is wrong.

When State A recognizes permits from State B, that does NOT mean that State B's laws apply to the permit holder while in State A. State A's laws apply and the permit holder is responsible for learning what State A's laws are and following them while in State A.

Louisiana, for example, does not allow carrying in places of worship but Tennessee does. Having a TN HCP while in Louisiana does not override that restriction. Likewise, a Lousiana permit holder may carry in a church in Tennessee though they would not be able to do so legally at home in Louisiana.

Edited February 29, 2012 by monkeylizard

[MississippiBoy]

That is wronger than a wrong thing that is wrong.

When State A recognizes permits from State B, that does NOT mean that State B's laws apply to the permit holder while in State A. State A's laws apply and the permit holder is responsible for learning what State A's laws are and following them.

Louisiana, for example, does not allow carrying in places of worship. Haveing a TN HCP while in Louisiana does not override that restriction. Likewise, a Lousiana permit holder may carry in a church in Tennessee though they would not be able to do so legally at home in Louisiana.

Ok, I was misunderstood. I lived in Mississippi till 2009. A valid permit holder can carry openly or concealed in the state of Mississippi.

In MS you can get a Concealed carry license. This allows for concealed carry. There is legal precedent for a holstered weapon to be considered as a concealed weapon. This license therefore allows concealed carry and what is commonly referred to as open carry.

TN HCP allows for open and concealed carry in the state of TN. Mississippi recognizes the TN HCP as equivalent to the MS CCL. This means that a person with a TN HCP can carry a weapon in the state of MS in accordance with MS's laws.

The question as I understood it was: Can a TN resident with a valid TN HCP carry "open" in the state of MS? The answer is yes. You still have to abide by the state laws though.

Edited February 29, 2012 by MississippiBoy

[maroonandwhite]

This is the response I got back from him about 5 minutes after sending. I asked for more elaboration on the matter and why the state constitution seemed to say otherwise but haven't recieved a response. About what I expected.

"You weapon must be concealed when you are carry it. If your weapon is in a holster, it should be covered (the weapon and holster) and not visible to any one."

M/Sgt. Williams

Director-Firearms Permit Unit

Mississippi Highway Safety Patrol

[monkeylizard]

Ok, I was misunderstood.

After re-reading your first post, I can see what you meant.

[Fallguy]

This is the response I got back from him about 5 minutes after sending. I asked for more elaboration on the matter and why the state constitution seemed to say otherwise but haven't recieved a response. About what I expected.

"You weapon must be concealed when you are carry it. If your weapon is in a holster, it should be covered (the weapon and holster) and not visible to any one."

M/Sgt. Williams

Director-Firearms Permit Unit

Mississippi Highway Safety Patrol

As you said...about what you'd expect.

From http://opencarry.org/ms.html

Mississippi is an open carry state and the state constitution appears to guarantee this right. Further, localities are generally preempted under state law from enacting local gun control ordnances that might restrict open carry. However, Miss. Code §§ 97-37-1 & § 45-9-101 operate together to ban carriage of a handgun "concealed in whole or in part" unless the carrier is inside a motor vehicle or possesses a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver. As the Mississippi courts have said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part, a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver is required to openly carry a handgun in a holster in Mississippi.

If he responds back...ask him what law required it to be fully concealed.

[Q-tip]

Fallguy posted correctly. Honestly though, there has never been a real test case of an open carried weapon, and the courts have said these things in cases that aren't directly related to OC. If you have a license, there's nothing in the law that keeps you from open carrying. If OC is "concealed", it's covered by the license. If OC is "open", there's no law that prohibits a person from doing it and it's specifically protected by the MS Constitution.

[Jamie Jackson]

Do yourself a favor and conceal your handgun.

I had a MS permit 15 years, prior to moving to TN.

I never had any issues, never a single hassle, and I always had my handgun concealed.

If it's not concealed, you will garner more unwanted attention than you bargained for.

Unlike TN, MS LEO's & Peace Officers view the permit, not as a Handgun Permit, but as a Concealed Carry Permit.

[maroonandwhite]

Fallguy I have the number to there "legal department" so I am going to give him a call and ask that. I'm not going to get anywhere with this guy. Prag I agree. Basically anywhere I go I like to carry concealed for a few different reasons but we won't start that debate. Basically I just wanted to be able to open carry at work on the really hot days. I work at a small three man operation on the side of the hwy so I don't think this will be an issue. As Q-Tip said there has never really been a case on this so it probably just ends in the OC'er being harrased a little. I would rather not deal with that as I am not that passionate about OC anyways. The laws definately need to be worded better though.

[Fallguy]

Fallguy I have the number to there "legal department" so I am going to give him a call and ask that. I'm not going to get anywhere with this guy. Prag I agree. Basically anywhere I go I like to carry concealed for a few different reasons but we won't start that debate. Basically I just wanted to be able to open carry at work on the really hot days. I work at a small three man operation on the side of the hwy so I don't think this will be an issue. As Q-Tip said there has never really been a case on this so it probably just ends in the OC'er being harrased a little. I would rather not deal with that as I am not that passionate about OC anyways. The laws definately need to be worded better though.

My guess is you "might" find someone that eventually says "It's not illegal" but they will strongly urge you not to. Also if another LEO was to confront you while you were OCing, telling them that so-and-so of the legal department told you it was ok/legal isn't going to mean very much to that LEO.

In TN there is an AG Opinion that clearly says OC is legal.....doesn't sound like there is any such clarification in MS.

[Fallguy]

In TN there is an AG Opinion that clearly says OC is legal.....doesn't sound like there is any such clarification in MS.

Well that is partially incorrect. Looks like there is a MS AG Opinion.

I guess if you have a permit whether it is concealed in whole or part doesn't really matter since you have a permit and he does clearly say that is if is not carried in concealed in whole or part it is not a violation.

Of course the part saying "Exactly what constitutes concealed in whole or part is largely a question of fact which we do not determine, and would depend on the facts of each case." gives me a bit of pause. Would seem like they could say if a weapon carried in a holster where the holster was exposed constituted concealed in whole or part or not.

Sounds like to me if you tried to OC in MS without a permit...you'd more than likely be charged, then it would be up to the jury. Of course as posted above, even OpenCarry.org list MS as a "licensed" open carry state.

(Doesn't seem to be a way to link directly to the opinion)

Office of the Attorney General

State of Mississippi

January 14, 1993

Re: Concealed Weapons

Mr. Pete Bowen

Chief of Police

P.O. Box 1408

Columbus, MS 39703

Dear Chief Bowen:

Attorney General Mike Moore has received your letter and has assigned it to me for reply. A copy of your letter is attached for reference.

In your letter you ask about carrying concealed and unconcealed weapons and the law on the same.

The state law makes carrying certain weapons, including handguns, concealed in whole or part a crime. There are stated exceptions to this general statement, including in a motor vehicle, a person's home or business, which includes the property surrounding such home or business. See 97–37–1 of the Mississippi Code of 1972. There are also certain affirmative defenses to a charge of carrying a concealed weapon. See 97–37–9 of the Mississippi Code of 1972. Our law also allows two kinds of permits for carrying concealed weapons, one kind for security guards, bank guards, etc., section 97–37–7, and another kind for the general public, section 45–9–101.

If a handgun is not carried concealed in whole or part then it is not in violation of state law (there can be exceptions, for example section 97–37–17 for any illegal possession by a student on a campus or school grounds). Exactly what constitutes concealed in whole or part is largely a question of fact which we do not determine, and would depend on the facts of each case.

Very truly yours,

Mike Moore

Attorney General

By: Larry J. Stroud

Special Assistant Attorney General

Attachment

November 23, 1992

Mike Moore, Attorney General

Post Office Box 220

Jackson, Ms 39205

ref: Request for Attorney General Opinion

Dear Sir:

Does Section 45–9–101 of the Mississippi Code allow a permit holder to carry a handgun unconcealed, ie, holster or does it allow only the carrying of a handgun concealed (not visible)?

Does Section 97–37–1 or any other State Statute allow for the unconcealed carrying of a handgun, ie, in a holster?

If, the carrying of a handgun unconcealed, as in a holster is prohibited, then by what section should a person be charged and what appropriate penalty would apply?

Your quick response will be greatly appreciated. My mailing address is PO Box 1408, Columbus, Ms 39703–1408.

Sincerely,

Pete Bowen

Chief of Police

1993 WL 669065 (Miss.A.G.)

END OF DOCUMENT

Edited March 1, 2012 by Fallguy

[maroonandwhite]

I agree. Again about what I expected but now I know for sure (or don't for that matter ).

[Jamie Jackson]

I think that's a smart move bendbolden.

I know it's darn hot & humid especially in the summer months, but I've found a loose #### not only conceals well, but offers a bit of protection from the sun. Just an opinion my Friend.

Good points from Fallguy.

I know I certainly wouldn't want to be a "test case".

[Guest 270win]

The state law is probably not in line with the MS Constitution. The law basically prohibits any handgun carried openly on a belt holster. So how do you not conceal a handgun 'in part'?

[Fallguy]

The state law is probably not in line with the MS Constitution. The law basically prohibits any handgun carried openly on a belt holster. So how do you not conceal a handgun 'in part'?

Sort of what I thought.

Many would considered a handgun carried in a holster..as long as the holster wasn't covered and not concelaed. But based on the wording of the law, one could make a good argument that is concealed "in part".

Guess that is one reason the AG didn't want to really define it.

Of course all of this is really moot as long as you have a permit.