handgun carry permit require practice or cetain competence level ?

[Guest nraforlife]

What concerns me is the folks that qualify with a 6" barrel 38 and then carry a ultra compact 9mm, 40, 357SIG or .45 automatic with no or minimal additional range time. But with the way laws are in this State as long as I eat in restaurants that serve alcohol or take my walks in State parks, I pretty much cut down the chances on running into one of them.

[Fallguy]

What concerns me is the folks that qualify with a 6" barrel 38 and then carry a ultra compact 9mm, 40, 357SIG or .45 automatic with no or minimal additional range time.

It does not matter what they shoot at the class verses what they carry because the class is not to qualify you with any weapon. It is simply a state mandated safety class to teach how to safely handle a handgun not how to accurately shoot it. Complete competency with or accuracy with the weapon is not a requirement nor should it be.

[Guest nraforlife]

It does not matter what they shoot at the class verses what they carry because the class is not to qualify you with any weapon. It is simply a state mandated safety class to teach how to safely handle a handgun not how to accurately shoot it. Complete competency with or accuracy with the weapon is not a requirement nor should it be.

That is true, as long as you put 37 out of 50 on target your good to go and it doesn't matter if is a .22 or a .50, revolver or autoloader. The State doesn't care in that regard one way or another what you used to pass the course with. I just get concerned when folks shoot a minor caliber to pass the firing portion of the class and then carry a major caliber without much additional time on a range. I agree 100% that the State has no business setting competency requirements.

[Fallguy]

I do agree that it simly makes sense to use the weapon you intend to carry though and that practice with it only makes sense.

[towerclimber37]

Fallguy,

I agree.

I also agree with Eddie.

The laws are set up in such a way so as to ensure that if someone acts irresponsibly with their firearm, they ARE liable for that irresponsibility.

Kwickernu, what I said in the other thread wasn't a mandate.

I simply said you NEED RANGE TIME. Otherwise you're flirting with disaster, because you haven't practiced in a year or more.

I'm not just talking to let my teeth dry. I spent 10 years in the army (most of it in combat line companies.) Like many folks here, I learned there that your skills will erode unless you practice them on a regular basis.

a firearm is not a magic talisman that will banish an evil person to the netherworld. it's a tool. if you don't practice with it often enough, your chances of shooting something or someone you didn't intend to shoot will rise dramatically.

to state that you are not worried about your accuracy with your own pistol, though you haven't practiced in a year or more is the height of folly and should you ever have to USE that weapon, it WILL show! As the laws stand now and since you have had your erroneous thinking identified you have no excuse should you hurt someone unintentionally.

[Fallguy]

a firearm is not a magic talisman that will banish an evil person to the netherworld.

Dang....I would have swore that is what the salesman told me....

J/K, just thought that was a pretty good quote.

I also agree that ANY skill, including firing a weapon, degrades overtime without use/practice.

[Guest kwikrnu]

The laws are set up in such a way so as to ensure that if someone acts irresponsibly with their firearm, they ARE liable for that irresponsibility.

Kwickernu, what I said in the other thread wasn't a mandate.

I simply said you NEED RANGE TIME. Otherwise you're flirting with disaster, because you haven't practiced in a year or more.

I'm not just talking to let my teeth dry. I spent 10 years in the army (most of it in combat line companies.) Like many folks here, I learned there that your skills will erode unless you practice them on a regular basis.

a firearm is not a magic talisman that will banish an evil person to the netherworld. it's a tool. if you don't practice with it often enough, your chances of shooting something or someone you didn't intend to shoot will rise dramatically.

to state that you are not worried about your accuracy with your own pistol, though you haven't practiced in a year or more is the height of folly and should you ever have to USE that weapon, it WILL show! As the laws stand now and since you have had your erroneous thinking identified you have no excuse should you hurt someone unintentionally.

Is it possible for someone with no range time in 10 years to outshoot me?

Is it possible for someone to go to the range several times per year and me out shoot them?

If I go to the range or step out on back back porch and shoot 10 rounds is that good enough?

Unless there is a standard to which I am to be judged and everyone else who holds a permit equally judged then there is no basis for stating I am not qualified or saying I am a danger.

(I forgot I wasn't supposed to reply to this thread, sorry)

[Guest nraforlife]

Is it possible for someone with no range time in 10 years to outshoot me?

Is it possible for someone to go to the range several times per year and me out shoot them?

If I go to the range or step out on back back porch and shoot 10 rounds is that good enough?

Unless there is a standard to which I am to be judged and everyone else who holds a permit equally judged then there is no basis for stating I am not qualified or saying I am a danger.

(I forgot I wasn't supposed to reply to this thread, sorry)

People, PLEASE be responsible and don't put anyones life in danger because of your ego. There is a BIG difference between shooting at a range and shooting with people screaming and other distractions going on around you. As far as determining who is qualified or not is not the States decision. Everyone has the right of self defense but a jury can decide if you acting appropriately and responsibly.

[Guest kwikrnu]

People, PLEASE be responsible and don't put anyones life in danger because of your ego. There is a BIG difference between shooting at a range and shooting with people screaming and other distractions going on around you. As far as determining who is qualified or not is not the States decision. Everyone has the right of self defense but a jury can decide if you acting appropriately and responsibly.

So, unless someone practices shooting in high stress situations they shouldn't carry a gun?

[deerslayer]

It is definitely beneficial.

[Fallguy]

It is definitely beneficial.

Hard to argue with that....

[towerclimber37]

I shoot for accuracy, on a range. I haven't been in a high stress situation for a while now (if you discount what I do for a living..)

I never said you didn't have the right to carry. I just called you stupid for not practicing.

I also URGED you to practice. That's all. The rest is up to you. You don't want to take the advice that many of us have given. you hem and haw and act as if we don't know what we're talking about. there are folks here with vastly more experience in reactive shooting than I have. (Deerslayer is one of them!)

you can stay on your high horse, show your ass and run the danger of shooting someone that you didn't mean to shoot, or you can shut your yap, and admit to yourself that 1. yes, you need to practice to keep your skills sharp, 2. you have a problem admitting when someone else is right. and 3. the best way to learn something is to shut your mouth and open your ears.

Its for people like you, that we make the stupid laws for in the first place, because you don't have the common sense to wipe after you crap, then you blame someone else for having feces on your butt. so you sue them.

the "standard" that you're held to is this: should you get into a situation where you'll need that firearm, will you hit your target or an unintended one?

no one knows, but I sure as heck don't understand how you so recklessly approach the ideals of self defense and carrying a lethal weapon. the half -assed attitude that you evince make me believe that you are a hazard.

the rest of your diatribe makes me believe that you're an idiot.

[Guest dotsun]

+1 to what Tower said. I just can't fathom why anyone who carries wouldn't go to the range and practice. It's not like it's a root canal, shooting is quite painless and tons of fun. It's cheaper than dinner and a movie, so what's the problem?

[nightrunner]

It's cheaper than dinner and a movie, so what's the problem?

exactly, i go to the range on the weekends instead of going on dates:D

[deerslayer]

there are folks here with vastly more experience in reactive shooting than I have. (Deerslayer is one of them!)

I'm definitely no expert. I agree with the rest of your post, though.

[Guest kwikrnu]

I shoot for accuracy, on a range. I haven't been in a high stress situation for a while now (if you discount what I do for a living..)

I never said you didn't have the right to carry. I just called you stupid for not practicing.

I also URGED you to practice. That's all. The rest is up to you. You don't want to take the advice that many of us have given. you hem and haw and act as if we don't know what we're talking about. there are folks here with vastly more experience in reactive shooting than I have. (Deerslayer is one of them!)

you can stay on your high horse, show your ass and run the danger of shooting someone that you didn't mean to shoot, or you can shut your yap, and admit to yourself that 1. yes, you need to practice to keep your skills sharp, 2. you have a problem admitting when someone else is right. and 3. the best way to learn something is to shut your mouth and open your ears.

Its for people like you, that we make the stupid laws for in the first place, because you don't have the common sense to wipe after you crap, then you blame someone else for having feces on your butt. so you sue them.

the "standard" that you're held to is this: should you get into a situation where you'll need that firearm, will you hit your target or an unintended one?

no one knows, but I sure as heck don't understand how you so recklessly approach the ideals of self defense and carrying a lethal weapon. the half -assed attitude that you evince make me believe that you are a hazard.

the rest of your diatribe makes me believe that you're an idiot.

Sounds like you have a bunch of pent up anger. What you should do is put that anger to use and call your state reps and have them change the law and require people to qualify every month or so in order to keep their permit. I would guess that most all permit holders do not go to the range on a regular basis. You know what? HCP holders killing bystanders with stray shots is almost unheard of.

[strickj]

Dude

[Guest nraforlife]

Sounds like you have a bunch of pent up anger. What you should do is put that anger to use and call your state reps and have them change the law and require people to qualify every month or so in order to keep their permit. I would guess that most all permit holders do not go to the range on a regular basis. You know what? HCP holders killing bystanders with stray shots is almost unheard of.

State qualification testing, think I'll pass on that idea. We are all adults and it is your decision to train or not. It is then a juries decision to put your ass away should you screw up and I would think that training or lack of could be a big difference on the ultimate outcome.

Edited May 5, 2008 by nraforlife

[Guest canynracer]

Sounds like you have a bunch of pent up anger. What you should do is put that anger to use and call your state reps and have them change the law and require people to qualify every month or so in order to keep their permit. I would guess that most all permit holders do not go to the range on a regular basis. You know what? HCP holders killing bystanders with stray shots is almost unheard of.

dude...you just dont get it...stop using the "laws" as a source to hide behind...

if your kids suck at soccer, to you NOT tell them to PRACTICE???? use your brain

[Guest kwikrnu]

dude...you just dont get it...stop using the "laws" as a source to hide behind...

if your kids suck at soccer, to you NOT tell them to PRACTICE???? use your brain

The laws are made to protect the citizens of this State. If there was a real danger the State would come up with legislation to correct the problem. There is no problem therefore the legislation will not change. As far as I can tell no one in this State has been killed due to a missed shot while a person was defending himself or defending another.

So, now I suck at shooting a gun?

Until someone can prove to me that every HCP permit holder practices on a regular basis and they are better marksmen than me I will not change my mind.

[Smith]

Personally I think every SUV owner should take at least a 24 hr written course with hands on defensive driving course to follow before being allowed to get a license.

J/K, but we somehow hold guns and such to some mythically higher power of destruction than the millions of idiots driving 2000 lbs. + missles at 70 MPH. We don't have excessive regulations on vehicles, which are arguably more dangerous than guns, and aren't a right but rather a "privilege". Yet we have self-protection and guns which are natural rights that we seem fine to require training and requirements for. To me this seems like gun elitist/snobs who want to look down on the average first time gun owner for not knowing the difference between a 9x19 and 9mm Luger. Or the ever incessant "clip" quo pa. No more training, test, qualifications, etc, etc. Rights are rights and shall not be infringed..... for what ever reason.

[Guest nraforlife]

...

So, now I suck at shooting a gun?

Until someone can prove to me that every HCP permit holder practices on a regular basis and they are better marksmen than me I will not change my mind.

Not up to anyone to prove anything to you. As I said we are all adults and must live with the consequnces of our actions or inactions

[Guest dotsun]

No witty retort to my post, Kwik? I feel left out. Or maybe it makes too much sense to practice regularly.

[Guest kwikrnu]

To me this seems like gun elitist/snobs who want to look down on the average first time gun owner for not knowing the difference between a 9x19 and 9mm Luger. Or the ever incessant "clip" quo pa. No more training, test, qualifications, etc, etc. Rights are rights and shall not be infringed..... for what ever reason.

Exactly.

[Guest kwikrnu]

No witty retort to my post, Kwik? I feel left out. Or maybe it makes too much sense to practice regularly.

I never said that not practicing was better than practice.