handgun carry permit require practice or cetain competence level ?

[Guest kwikrnu]

In the State of Tennessee all carry permit holders go through a short few hour class and a range qualification session. The range qualifying is extremely easy, basically a waste of time if you have ever shot a handgun before.

Should the permit holder be more proficient than the State requirement?

Should there be mandatory range time?

If so what should the proficiency level be and how much range time per year or every 5 years or every ten years?

I'll start off. I do not think there should be any State testing or class requirement for a permit as I believe it to be my right to carry a gun wherever or whenever I want as spelled out in the Bill of Rights.

This will be my first and last post on this thread.

Edited April 20, 2008 by kwikrnu
spelling

[nightrunner]

i dont think that the govt. of any sort should be able to tell me whether or not i can carry. i do though believe that a person should be comfortable in his abilities to operate his carry weapon in an efficient and humane manner. but the govt. shouldnt be monitoring this, the individual shoudl decide if/when he is ready to carry a concealed weapon

[Guest nraforlife]

In the State of Tennessee all carry permit holders go through a short few hour class and a range qualifictaion session. The range qualifying is extremely easy, basically a waste of time if you have ever shot a handgun before.

Should the permit holder be more proficient than the State requirement?

Should there be mandatory range time?

If so what should the proficiency level be and how much range time per year or every 5 years or every ten years?

I'll start off. I do not think there should be any State testing or class requirement for a permit as I believe it to be my right to carry a gun wherever or whenever I want as spelled out in the Bill of Rights.

It is up to the individual to become more proficient. Dear God, can you image some bureaucrat determining what proficient is? IF you carry YOU have the responsibility to be well trained. My instructor buddies get the willies when someone comes to one of their classes and qualifies with a .38 or lesser caliber and then totes a 45 when they get their 'permit' with little to no real range time with the new firearm that my buddies know of.

And your right, the State mandated class is a joke IF the instructor only covers what the State requires. In Nashville, Buford Tune at APPS DOES NOT DO THIS and I am hopeful that other instructors do not either.

[towerclimber37]

Thank God that most folks who carry a firearm have more common sense than to think that minimal training is enough for a person to "get by" on.

agree with nightrunner.

There are laws in place now that allow for 2 things. 1. if you must defend yourself or your property you can't be prosecuted if you are competent and don't harm anyone except the one that needed it.

2. if you DO shoot someone you didn't intend to or shouldn't have, you will definitely have some trouble. both civil and criminal!

in my opinion, this should be enough.

what I was saying in another thread was that constant practice is important and near vital if you intend to carry at all times. taking a year off from practice is NOT a good idea no matter how long you've carried or practiced.

[Guest rufusgooch]

If you are a tenessee resident, you can get a fl non resident permit, by mail, training required is a dd 214( active/retired military), finger print card. good in 28 states including tn. I live in nebraska. Have a nebraska and fl permit. Im good in 29 states.

[Fallguy]

If you are a tenessee resident, you can get a fl non resident permit, by mail, training required is a dd 214( active/retired military), finger print card. good in 28 states including tn. I live in nebraska. Have a nebraska and fl permit. Im good in 29 states.

Not exactly sure what this has to do with the question, but as TN resident with a TN Handgun Carry Permit I can carry in 35 states. Why would I want to get a non-resident permit that is valid in fewer states? Also not everyone has DD214

To answer the original question.

I too agree that there shouldn't even be a state requirement to carry.

So therefore No, I don't think the state should require more or continued training for you to have a HCP. But I would advise at the bare minimum for someone who carries or simply has a firearm in the house to practice with it. And if you desire more training then by all means seek it out.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Fallguy

[TripleDigitRide]

In most cases, I would say NO, the government shouldn't tell me how much practice time I need. But, because we have incompetent people (no names mentioned) walking around with loaded fireamrs, I say YES, require HCP holders to practice every few months.

It's quite unfortunate that the government would need to require an adult to be safety conscious when carrying a firearm, but again, unfortunately we walk amongst at least some people who feels it's perfectly safe to walk around with a loaded firearm, not having the slightest idea if it will even operate properly. Not to mention you'll likely lack some of the much needed skill you may have had when you quite going to the range.

Here's a personal example of what I'm talking about. Not gun related, but nontheless, could possibly become a deadly situation, for myself and others around me.

For those of who who don't know, I'm a local truck driver, and have been operating 80,000# trucks for roughly 10 years, without a single accident (knock on wood). With all that experience, I'm pretty darned confident in my skills and ability to climb into any rig, at any given time, and get that puppy down the road in a safe manner.

With that being said, a while back I severely broke my foot, which required me to be out of a truck for quite a while. When I was finally able to climb back in the truck, yes, I was able to get right in there and get it down the road. The problem was, after being out of the truck for so long, I became a bit rusty when it came to shifting gears, backing up, proper mirror useage, and just little things that only other truck drivers understand.

Now here's the difference between some (incompetent people) and myself. Because I knew I'd be rusty, and had no desire to hurt or kill myself or anyone around me, I took it upon myself to climb into the truck for a few spins aroound the block. Not only did I have a chance to brush up on the shifting aspect, but I was also able to get used to the wide turns, mirror useage and backing up. yes, even after nearly ten years of daily driving in a 80,000# truck, I still felt it my personal responsibility to make sure I wasn't going to get out on the road, and possibly hurt or kill myself, or anyone around me simply because of my negligent actions.

Did the government REQUIRE me to do this? Absolutely not. See, they didn't have to, because I was capable enough to use the common sense God gave me. The government shouldn't have to require half the crap they do, but it's the idiots of society who've left them little choice. If everyone would use a little more common sense, maybe, just maybe they would/could leave us alone, even if just a little.

Your BS excuses of "the government doesn't require it" is uttter BULL SH8T. It may not be the popular opinion, but as I stated before, I hope like hell they take away your HCP. It's people like who who end up making it harder on those of us who actually care about ourselves and those around us. Those of us who realize it's not/shouldn't be the governments job to babysit us like little children. Again, it frightens me to know that there are people like you walking around with a loaded firearm.

And no, none of this will make a lick of sense to you, because you have none. If you didn't spend every waking moment worrying about who you're gonna sue next, maybe you'd have time for the practice range.

Sorry, didn't mean to be so long winded.

Edited May 4, 2008 by TripleDigitRide

[Guest mcclearypl]

Hello

I am new to Tn and new to this forum. I carry a fl permit which I will soon be replacing with a Tn. permit. I do not think that the state should have any say so over my firearm. Period. But I also know I live in the real world and know that it will never be that open. In Tn you have it better than many states including Fl where the weapon MUST be kept hidden at all times. I do not mind the requirement for range time as it may keep many an owner safer than no training at all. In Fl the training class is 4 hours long and requires you fire a weapon. I fired a .22 cal pistol in to a water bath, set through a 4 hour training class on the law and was issued my little "Yes" I went to class paper and that was it. I sent in the paper, the money and my picture and got my permit. Several thousand rounds later I feel very safe with my weapon. But I have to wonder about those that took the class and have never fired the second round.

Sorry for being so long winded.

I look forward to meeting some of you here in Tn.

Phil

[TripleDigitRide]

Hello

I am new to Tn and new to this forum. I carry a fl permit which I will soon be replacing with a Tn. permit. I do not think that the state should have any say so over my firearm. Period. But I also know I live in the real world and know that it will never be that open. In Tn you have it better than many states including Fl where the weapon MUST be kept hidden at all times. I do not mind the requirement for range time as it may keep many an owner safer than no training at all. In Fl the training class is 4 hours long and requires you fire a weapon. I fired a .22 cal pistol in to a water bath, set through a 4 hour training class on the law and was issued my little "Yes" I went to class paper and that was it. I sent in the paper, the money and my picture and got my permit. Several thousand rounds later I feel very safe with my weapon. But I have to wonder about those that took the class and have never fired the second round.

Sorry for being so long winded.

I look forward to meeting some of you here in Tn.

Phil

Hi Phil.

Welcome to Tennessee and TGO.com. We're glad to have ya. What part of Tennessee are you in? Maybe someone can hook up with you for a range session.

Enjoy your stay.

[Guest canynracer]

has nothing to do with the laws...it is a responsibility of the gun owner to be smart, and have consideration for the innocent lives around them to be a proficient shooter....that takes practice.

go to the range, shoot IDPA once a month, shoot squirrels in your backyard, do SOMETHING to keep your skills sharp, at least for the innocent peoples sake...

forget the requirements, and the laws, and practice moral judgement.

[ZenDog]

Believe it or not, when I took the HCP class there were 2 people who failed the shooting part out of a class of 20. They definitely needed more time with the weapon!

I don't think the state should require more practice after the initial qualification test-- training should be up to the permit holder's discretion.

[Mike.357]

forget the requirements, and the laws, and practice moral judgement.

in a nutshell that sums it up, no sense mucking things up with more words.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

As stated before, the state requires a "Handgun Safety Class" to be able to apply for a carry permit. It's not a shooting class, or a self-defense training class. It's a class on handgun safety, with a minimum of range proficiency.

All gun carriers should take it upon themselves to learn to fire and become proficient with the handgun they plan to carry, as well as study the gun laws of the state.

[memphismason]

As stated before, the state requires a "Handgun Safety Class" to be able to apply for a carry permit. It's not a shooting class, or a self-defense training class. It's a class on handgun safety, with a minimum of range proficiency.

All gun carriers should take it upon themselves to learn to fire and become proficient with the handgun they plan to carry, as well as study the gun laws of the state.

+1

[Guest HexHead]

Considering as someone's sig line so eloquently puts it "every bullet has a lawyer attached to it", I take it upon myself to practice regularly to ensure my bullets go where they are intended. We don't need the state putting more laws on us when we're trying so hard to get them to relax some of the existing ones.

Common sense should tell you to practice, practice, practice. Ammo's a lot cheaper than working forever to pay off a lawsuit.

[molonlabetn]

This is 2 distinct questions, really...

- Should a person who takes on the responsibility of using a dangerous tool be expected to seek for themselves to be capable of handling and operating it safely and proficiently?

Yes, of course!

- Should it be up to the government to pre-determine who is responsible and proficient?

No, that is an evaluation which must be made on an individual basis, not a rubber-stamped 'certification'.

The only place government has in this equation, is punishment of irresponsible or harmful behavior, NOT pre-determination of whether one is or is not qualified. Now, since we're not naive, of course we must realize that there are some people who simply are incapable or unwilling to act responsibly... but until they actually make a mistake or commit a crime, the responsibility for correcting misguided or reckless behavior should lie with the people around that person who do know better, through education and admonishment. There is no 'test' by which any government or agency could universally determine who will or will not be responsible.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

This is 2 distinct questions, really...

- Should a person who takes on the responsibility of using a dangerous tool be expected to seek for themselves to be capable of handling and operating it safely and proficiently?

Yes, of course!

- Should it be up to the government to pre-determine who is responsible and proficient?

No, that is an evaluation which must be made on an individual basis, not a rubber-stamped 'certification'.

The only place government has in this equation, is punishment of irresponsible or harmful behavior, NOT pre-determination of whether one is or is not qualified. Now, since we're not naive, of course we must realize that there are some people who simply are incapable or unwilling to act responsibly... but until they actually make a mistake or commit a crime, the responsibility for correcting misguided or reckless behavior should lie with the people around that person who do know better, through education and admonishment. There is no 'test' by which any government or agency could universally determine who will or will not be responsible.

[Rightwinger]

Can't think of a thing to say.

[TripleDigitRide]

Oh, I can, but this guy makes my head hurt.

[Guest canynracer]

LMAO...

[HoustonGrey]

This one is a tough one for me. In my mind the perfect scenario would be no government intervention and everyone have enough responsibility to get proper training. I would assume that everyone on this forum is probably that type of person.

Now I am going to play Devil's advocate...

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that are idiots. I don't think 8 hours of the CCL class was even close to adequate for the average civilian. All it takes is one untrained person to have an accidental discharge and kill or maim someone and the gun control people just have another example to smear all over the liberal media.

Not to mention, I don't want anyone in my family to be the unfortunate victim of such an incident. What would be wrong with at least 24 hours of training before passing a CCL? If it made everyone more competent and safe wouldn't that be a good thing?

[Guest jackdog]

The only thing wrong with your idea is that carryibg a gun is a right. We really don't need any more laws to confuse the issue. I kinda figure the idiots will kinda take care of them selves. You know Darwin or ID or the like.

[Auburn]

I recently moved to Tennessee from Virginia, where I had a VA CHP. Virginia does not formally require a range test of any kind...just proof of competency. That requirement can be met by sitting through a three hour handgun safety class at a gun show (as long as you get some type of certificate to prove that you were there).

Now, to get a TN permit, I just had to pay $50 and provide documentation that my fingerprints had been taken in Virginia.

So, it is possible to get a TN permit without ever have firing a shot. I doubt that has ever happened...but it is possible.

[deerslayer]

[quote name=mhouston5;94191Unfortunately' date=' there are a lot of people that are idiots. I don't think 8 hours of the CCL class was even close to adequate for the average civilian. All it takes is one untrained person to have an accidental discharge and kill or maim someone and the gun control people just have another example to smear all over the liberal media.

Not to mention, I don't want anyone in my family to be the unfortunate victim of such an incident. What would be wrong with at least 24 hours of training before passing a CCL? If it made everyone more competent and safe wouldn't that be a good thing?[/quote]

I also have mixed feelings on this. I've been at carry permit classes and seen people who didn't know how to load their guns or what a decocker was used for, and I'm thinking, "wow, by the end of this day, they will have completed all of their training required to get a permit? I hope I'm not in range if they ever get into a shooting situation." Maybe they'll get additional training, but most don't. It is their responsibility to do so, but that does not mean they will. Being a responsible parent is one's duty, but it's safe to say that it doesn't always happen. I have wondered how the state could require additional training, say your typical school's first level advanced class (usually marketed as the next step after permit class) without becoming a fiasco. The state-mandated course is usually, but not always, a mere formality.

[Guest kwikrnu]

I have no facts or figures to back me up, but I'd guess that the incidences of hand gun carry permit holders shooting an innocent person while defending themselves or others are few and far between.