Rivergate Mall in Nashville

[Grunt67]

And this is why folks like me that have a family and large disposable income choose to order from Amazon then go to the mall and have our kids inundated with loud, vulgar and obnoxious teens. You can't see why businesses might adopt such policies?

Exactly. Age old rule, if you won't discipline yourself, someone else will do it for you. It's

primarily parents job to keep kids in check. Failing that, someone else has to pick up

the slack. I've seen a steady increase in Juveniles in court in our small county since

I've been involved with it, in the past 4 yrs.

[TrickyNicky]

And this is why folks like me that have a family and large disposable income choose to order from Amazon then go to the mall and have our kids inundated with loud, vulgar and obnoxious teens. You can't see why businesses might adopt such policies?

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning negative behavior from kids teens or anyone. I can see where you are coming from and in the event I were in your shoes I would probably feel similar too.

My point (sometimes I have a hard time getting those across) is that kids are kids and will behave as such. Wearing baggy clothes or baseball caps does not cause crime any more than handguns cause crime, as far as the vulgarity... Well I don't have all the answers. One thing to consider is once your children reach a certain age they are probably hearing and saying just as bad on the playground at school as they will in any mall. Possibly children under a certain age just shouldn't be in places like that. Kind of harsh but hey it is IMPOSSIBLE and IMO unwise to even try to shelter children forever. One thing my father always told me growing up when situations like this would happen is " see that guy, you want to know why he talks that way? He doesn't know any more intelligent way to express himself, he's an idiot." That kind of lesson has stuck with me alot longer than the urge to swear in public.

Maybe the curfew is the right thing to do, kids can do their thing during the day and the mall can "clean up" in the evenings for family time.

I still think punishing everyone for the actions of some is messed up, but as I previously posted they (the mall officials) can do what they like, it's their right and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I just prefer to spend money with those not treading on the first amendment.

Sorry if my opinion is the unpopular one, hopefully we all can continue with a fair, open minded discussion.

[TrickyNicky]

It seems we are unable to solve a problem in this country without creating a rule, law or legislation that applies to everyone, whether guilty or innocent. Arrest the little b....rds that are causing problems and make their life, and their parent lives miserable for longer than a day. Leave the kids who are just hanging out alone. I guess its too much work to sort them out.

The truth in the first part of your statement saddens me. As for the second part... Really? Arrested for swearing? Taking part in a fashion unpopular with most everyone who doesn't take part. That warrants an arrest? <sigh>

[TMF]

Sorry if my opinion is the unpopular one, hopefully we all can continue with a fair, open minded discussion.

Unpopular doesn't translate to a lack of validity in my book, and I would probably have a different opinion if I were a teenager. However, things being what they are, we run on capitalism and I would always side with a business policy that focused on being successful.

I also don't think that the teens who go to the mall for the purpose of shopping are going to be affected. I'm betting that this policy will be enforced selectively, targeting those that chase away business. The enacting of this policy accomplishes two things: sets precedent for the loiterers and sends a message to customers that have avoided the mall due to the presence of undesirables.

[Guest mcgyver210]

I grew up around this mall & I can tell you the mall doesn't give a flying you know what about anything but money IMO. Safety has been an issue yhere for allot longer than recently same as everywhere since Gangs have showed up in Nashville. Rules like this breed resentment from future customers. As I said the mall tried harrassment tactics in the past & it did backfire. It is a balancing act but without kids getting parents to buy the merchandise the mall would go under.

I am not hypocritical in my way of thinking so I stand by what I say anytime Government or private says they are only protecting us. When you make rules that condemns everyone you only control law abiding people because bad people will continue to do what ever they please.

This mall has been dieing for many years & the new Hendersville Indian Lake district is killing it more rapidly. Malls do have statistical life spans & Rivergate is past the time. The reason it has become such a issue recently is because of Incredible Daves IMO. This is a magnet for teens. But also there are very few safe places for teens to socialize anymore & never have been since if there are more than a few teens in a group many seem to think they are all bad.

Come-On we were all teens at one time. Statistically speaking I am not normat & should be in trouble all the time but Im not because I chose not to follow statistics.

Saying all kids need to be punished for what a few do is the same as saying All LEOs are bad because of a few bad ones or all spanish people are illegals & the list goes on

I already had this mall on a list of places I only go if I have to due to the Anti-Safety rule known as GunBuster signs. I consider this to be an open invitation to bad people & more likely than not one of the reasons for the increased violence. I mean what better place than a mall that takes the ability to protect ones self away with inadequate security or protections of its patrons IMO.

This is a subject with obvious sides but as was said already it is a good discussion.

[QuietDan]

Teens socialize. Ok. Fine.

But, socializing is socializing, vandalism is vandalism, shoplifting is shoplifting, strong-arm robbery is strong-arm robbery, drug use is drug use, gang-on-gang fights are gang-on-gang fights, rape is rape, knifings are knifings, and shootings are shootings.

If you could have "teens socializing" without all the other hideous ####, I'd be all for it. But you can't Because, for the most part, teens lack self control. That's why they're teens.

There are good teens out there. Lots of them, perhaps a hundred to one - good to bad. But which ones of the hundreds? It can turn on a dime.

Now, parents have one, no inclination to discipline their teens, and two, cannot physically discipline them. I know I was kept in line more than once with a good crack across the mouth, and I deserved it, and I was one of the "good kids." Now, the first time many teens are disciplined is when they finally get out of control enough to confront a police officer and they find themselves handcuffed in the back of a cruiser if they're lucky, or shot dead in the street if they are particularly unlucky, or incredibly stupid.

With Hickory Hollow, and with apparently, Rivergate, you have malls and businesses worth many tens of millions, if not a hundred million or more, essentially shut down and out of business because we let the teens run rampant. Once the stores pull out, the apartment complexes and housing areas become untenable, as families lose jobs and have to move elsewhere, or find they don't have the resources and are stuck in a deteriorating neighborhood with even more violence.

So, we are enslaved by a percentage of our out of control teens to the tune of tens and hundreds of millions of dollars. They've grown up empty-headed and thuggish, and people are sick of it.

I'm in favor of escort policies for teens, and banishment from the mall for life as needed, with retinal scans to keep it all straight, with a high percentage of mall security or police presence to keep folks toeing the line. If that makes it a less pleasant place for "the teens" to socialize, well, that's just too damn bad. Find an empty lot, or a rock quarry to socialize in, and kill each other Lord of the Flies style, if it come to that. It lowers the competition for resources with the good teens that are out there.

This is harsh, but I am mad. And sick of it. Maybe catch me later in the week and I'll be all sweetness and light. I'll get to go to a high school graduation and applaud the honor graduates and the scholarship winners and the community volunteers and probably get all uplifted and hopeful.

Edited April 29, 2012 by QuietDan

[TrickyNicky]

Unpopular doesn't translate to a lack of validity in my book

Thank you for including that, you sir are clearly a gentleman and a scholar.

There have been a few threads I have wanted to post conflicting opinions on but just haven't not wanting to rock the boat.

Personally I think it's very important to express disagreement with others, in a polite respectful manner. You may end up with the right food for thought to change your mind on an issue, or you may just reaffirm what you've thought all along.

Have a good night folks.

[Guest RCLARK]

The truth in the first part of your statement saddens me. As for the second part... Really? Arrested for swearing? Taking part in a fashion unpopular with most everyone who doesn't take part. That warrants an arrest?

I think you took "arrest" too literally. Maybe I should have said "deal with". The problem is that we won't deal with inappropriate behavior of any kind by addressing the individuals who engage in it. We just want to write a rule or law to stop ALL potential bad behavior whether it materializes or not. Where are we headed if we don't stop that?

Businesses have the right to stop ALL loitering by ALL teenagers. I agree. That is there prerogative. That doesn't mean it isn't an bad move. Why run off 100 kids of whom 20 are probably spending money because you don't know how to deal with the 5 or 10 who are acting fools?

I liken this to school uniform policies. Let's make the kids who dress appropriately wear uniforms because we don't want to stop little Johnny from sagging because we might have to tell his Momma to shut up and mind her own business.

[Steelharp]

My point (sometimes I have a hard time getting those across) is that kids are kids and will behave as such.

And until we get rid of this attitude, and get back to proper a$$ busting, we will continue to have problems.

[Guest RCLARK]

And until we get rid of this attitude, and get back to proper a$$ busting, we will continue to have problems.

+This... I have a 18 year old son and I PROMISE YOU that he will NOT "be a kid" to the point that he is not welcome in any establishment. Why do I know that? Cause we have "discussed" it many times before he was old enough for it to be a problem.

[tercel89]

I was raised by getting my butt busted with a belt or switch from a tree/bush. I turned out pretty well. SO we do that to our kids . If a bad word comes out of their mouths , their mouth gets popped by my hand or their mom's hand and so on . SO far my son (14 yrs old) has turned out to be a fine young man , he is 14 yrs old and is 6 foot tall ! But a good polite young man . I love him so much . He asked me to go to the mall with his friend the other day and I said no , He said ok daddy , and that was it . If I let him hang out there with that trash , there is no telling what could happen .

My wife and me take him and his friends to family places and such to have fun . We still go to the mall but they stay near us .

Edited May 1, 2012 by tercel89

[Steelharp]

Teachers loved me. I would go into each kid's class at the beginning of the year, and say, "This is my son/daughter. They get outta line, smack 'em. Make sure you tell me about it, and I'll finish the job at home."

[Guest mcgyver210]

+This... I have a 18 year old son and I PROMISE YOU that he will NOT "be a kid" to the point that he is not welcome in any establishment. Why do I know that? Cause we have "discussed" it many times before he was old enough for it to be a problem.

And there lies my issue, It doesn't matter how good your kid is he is being stereo typed as bad with this rule same as CCP holders are being stereo typed by gun haters. My son is also a very well mannered kid & doesn't cause any trouble ever although he is fully capable of taking care of his self.

I unlike many don't believe in corporal punishment due to my past & my belief it can actually be a cause for some violent tendencies. So my son has never been hit but has had discipline although honestly he never needed much anyway since he has had parents in his life every step of the way.

No one will ever convince me it is good to lump all kids in as troublemakers which is what this rule does. So my recourse is to not spend $$$$s at the mall same as everyone here says they are doing when it is a GunBuster sign which isn't a regulation/law they have to follow but really a rule they decide to enforce voluntarily. I don't normally use GunBuster signs as examples but I find it perplexing & hypocritical to say we has gun owners shouldn't all be considered a bad risk but then agree it is OK to agree kids are all a risk since they are under 18.

Oh Well I guess fair is really only fair when it benefits you.

P.S. One good thing is We can still have differing opinions & Agree to Disagree.

Edited May 1, 2012 by mcgyver210

[TMF]

Well, I think it's a fair rule simply because it is the right of the business to make the policy, same as posting a gunbuster. If the business believes that by doing so it will be more successful then good for them.

With that said, I don't believe that YOUR son is the target here, and I'm sure that if he was in the mall after curfew conducting himself properly he won't have a problem. This rule was made so they could target the undesirables who don't spend money and chase off business. Same for many posted businesses I'm sure. I don't think every business that posts is anti-gun, but they might not want someone OCing in their store and potentially chase off the sheep and their spending cash.

[Guest mcgyver210]

Well, I think it's a fair rule simply because it is the right of the business to make the policy, same as posting a gunbuster. If the business believes that by doing so it will be more successful then good for them.

With that said, I don't believe that YOUR son is the target here, and I'm sure that if he was in the mall after curfew conducting himself properly he won't have a problem. This rule was made so they could target the undesirables who don't spend money and chase off business. Same for many posted businesses I'm sure. I don't think every business that posts is anti-gun, but they might not want someone OCing in their store and potentially chase off the sheep and their spending cash.

I really don't believe my son or kids like him are the target either but history with the mall tells me from experience he would be a target. I am just way to principled I guess but that is probably why even though I should be in trouble all the time based on statistics I'm not.

As for OCing I personally don't OC much because I prefer to not advertise carrying anyway partly because of incidents like what cause Costco to post.