Handgun in Vehicle, while having a drink at dinner?

[Guest Gonzo1982]

I'm trying to see if there is a legal way to keep a handgun in my vehicle while having a drink or two at dinner? I am a handgun permit holder, but due to my place of employment I'm not able to carry at work but can keep a handgun in my vehicle. Sometimes I randomly get invited for a drink after work or I'm out and carrying and then get invited for dinner, it becomes a hassle if I'm carrying and not able to go. I'm trying to understand the law regarding alcohol consumption and having a handgun in your vehicle. I know it says you can't carry any at all if you've consumed. What if you don't have it loaded, no magazine close to the gun, or the gun in a mobile handgun safe in my trunk. Thanks!

[R_Bert]

alcohol ? leave the gun at home, or drink soda. Reference recent fiasco over state representative Curry Todd.

Edited February 22, 2012 by R_Bert

[Caster]

There's a rift between people here on the subject. Apparently some think they are in complete control of their person while drinking. Personally I'm a drinker who loathes the idea of drinking in public. My non biased opinion would be for you to do a threat assessment of the situation. Do you really think you'll need the gun, if there's a chance then it would behoove you to not have your senses dulled in the least bit. Also, the threat of losing your permit. We all know that just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's legal. It only takes one cop who's had a bad day to make your day even worse. Is it worth it? Even if you beat it in court, was that drink worth it?

IMHO, drink at home, or leave the gun at home. OR, get you a designated driver with a permit.

...and no matter what notions people delude themselves with, inebriation starts with the first drink. The fact that you can't feel it means nothing.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Caster

[sschrick]

I am not condoning anyone's opinions or choices here, but I think (if I understand the law), that the gun must be unloaded and ammo must be separate in the vehicle. Basically, same as if you did not have HCP.

Loaded gun in the glovebox is a No-No (I think)

Interesting add-on question, what if your loaded piece is in the glovebox and someone else is driving you home?

just food for thought. . .

[Caster]

Too many "what if's".

[Guest Red5]

Here we go.......

If I'm out for dinner and I want a drink, it is, as you say, one or two, and I am always painfully sober before I head home. For me, I prefer to just stay home for both eating and drinking.

alcohol ? leave the gun at home, or drink soda. Reference recent fiasco over state representative Curry Todd.

I think in this case, we're talking more than a drink or two at dinner.

[R_Bert]

Here we go.......

If I'm out for dinner and I want a drink, it is, as you say, one or two, and I am always painfully sober before I head home. For me, I prefer to just stay home for both eating and drinking.

I think in this case, we're talking more than a drink or two at dinner.

Nope. publicity, embarassment, shame, harassment by cop, dumb luck, etc, are all the same, and most of us don't have good enough lawyers. Bad juju.....

Honestly, if someone has to ask the question.....well......they probably already know the (answer) risk. "Life is hard. It's a lot harder when you are........", so don't take the unecessary risk.

<bowing out now>

[Fallguy]

39-17-1321. Possession of handgun while under influence -- Penalty.

(a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance.

( It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:

(1) Within the confines of an establishment open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for consumption on the premises; and

(2) Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision ((1).

( c) (1) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(2) In addition to the punishment authorized by subdivision ( c)(1), if the violation is of subsection (a), occurs in an establishment described in subdivision ((1), and the person has a handgun permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1351, such permit shall be suspended in accordance with § 39-17-1352 for a period of three (3) years.

AFAIK if the gun is in your car and you are inside, you are not violating 39-17-1321 even if you get sloppy drunk, so long as you don't go back to your car, but IANAL.

My personal opinion, if you would be legal to drive you would be legal to be in possession of a handgun, but that is not stated as such in the law. 39-17-1321 is more like the Public Intoxication law...if the LEO, in his opinion, thinks you are "under the influence" you'll most likely go to jail, without any breath/blood test.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Fallguy

[Caster]

My personal opinion, if you would be legal to drive you would be legal to be in possession of a handgun, but that is not stated as such in the law. 39-17-1321 is more like the Public Intoxication law...if the LEO, in his opinion, thinks you are "under the influence" you'll most likely go to jail, without any breath/blood test.

There you go, from our own trusted legal man.

It doesn't matter what you can drink. If you get stopped and he thinks ........ It a deep hole you have just fell into. AND for what? A snort of hooch. This is not a case of right and wrong, this is a case of what is and what is not. I'm not clear on why people are so combative about it.

[Guest NYCrulesU]

There's a rift between people here on the subject. Apparently some think they are in complete control of their person while drinking. Personally I'm a drinker who loathes the idea of drinking in public. My non biased opinion would be for you to do a threat assessment of the situation. Do you really think you'll need the gun, if there's a chance then it would behoove you to not have your senses dulled in the least bit. Also, the threat of losing your permit. We all know that just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's legal. It only takes one cop who's had a bad day to make your day even worse. Is it worth it? Even if you beat it in court, was that drink worth it?

IMHO, drink at home, or leave the gun at home. OR, get you a designated driver with a permit.

...and no matter what notions people delude themselves with, inebriation starts with the first drink. The fact that you can't feel it means nothing.

I was going to comment....but Caster summed it up perfectly. So I'll just agree 100% with his post.

[Guest bkelm18]

39-17-1321. Possession of handgun while under influence -- Penalty.

(a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance.

( It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:

(1) Within the confines of an establishment open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for consumption on the premises; and

(2) Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision ((1).

( c) (1) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(2) In addition to the punishment authorized by subdivision ( c)(1), if the violation is of subsection (a), occurs in an establishment described in subdivision ((1), and the person has a handgun permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1351, such permit shall be suspended in accordance with § 39-17-1352 for a period of three (3) years.

AFAIK if the gun is in your car and you are inside, you are not violating 39-17-1321 even if you get sloppy drunk, so long as you don't go back to your car, but IANAL.

My personal opinion, if you would be legal to drive you would be legal to be in possession of a handgun, but that is not stated as such in the law. 39-17-1321 is more like the Public Intoxication law...if the LEO, in his opinion, thinks you are "under the influence" you'll most likely go to jail, without any breath/blood test.

Wow, it took how many posts for someone to actually answer the guy's question?

[Guest Gonzo1982]

Thanks, pretty much cleared up my question.

[Fallguy]

First let me say I am not condoning mixing alcohol and firearms, but just to add…

If you don't hand over your HCP or volunteer you're armed, how is the LEO going to know unless he asks?

Also you notice the law only mentions "handguns" and not long guns, so apparently you can be sloppy drunk and have a rifle or shotgun and that is not a crime, other than whatever crime you may be commiting by the act of being intoxicated (DUI/PI)

Oh and one last thing, there is an old AG opinion that says being in your home is not a defense to 39-17-1321. So even in your home, if you were "under the influence" and armed and for some reason had interaction with a LEO you could be charged.

Don't you just love TN firearms laws?

[Guest drwright6]

Just say no !!!

( It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:

(1) Within the confines of an establishment open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for consumption on the premises; and

(2) Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision ((1).

You don't have to be under the influence to get yourself in trouble. Before have a drink, unload your weapon and lock it in the trunk.

[Fallguy]

Just say no !!!

( It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:

(1) Within the confines of an establishment open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for consumption on the premises; and

(2) Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision ( (1).

You don't have to be under the influence to get yourself in trouble. Before have a drink, unload your weapon and lock it in the trunk.

The orginal question was about if he left the gun in the car....the part your quoting is if you are armed and inside at the same time.

[Guest Gonzo1982]

You don't have to be under the influence to get yourself in trouble. Before have a drink, unload your weapon and lock it in the trunk.

That's the question, can you legally unload your weapon, lock it in the trunk, and not be in illegal possession of a handgun after having a couple of drinks. Not going out and getting sloppy drunk or having a handgun on my hip inside a restaurant while having a drink. We all know thats illegal. It just seems ridiculous that I can legally drive a car after a drink or two (which can be just as deadly as a weapon) but not possess a handgun, unloaded, not easily in my possession (i.e. locked in my trunk, mobile safe, etc etc.)

[Oh Shoot]

That's the question, can you legally unload your weapon, lock it in the trunk, and not be in illegal possession of a handgun after having a couple of drinks.

Well, there's possession as in "going armed" and there's the "passive" possession of having an unloaded weapon not readily accessible.

I'm no lawyer, and anything's possible, but it's obvious the intent of the law is the "going armed" while juiced part and not the latter. If I still drank, I personally wouldn't worry about having an unloaded gun in the trunk, or even locked unloaded in a case under or behind the seat (since I don't have a trunk).

Then again, I wouldn't drive after having even one drink either; one drink smells about like ten drinks on your breath -- in that case I'd only be in that car with the gun well stashed if I were a passenger.

- OS

[Guest NYCrulesU]

As it is now legal on TN, I have no problem being armed in a bar or any establishment that serves alcohol/liquor.

My pro lem is with anyone who drinks while armed.

Just not a smart decision, imho.

[Guest RebelWithACause]

In the 18 years I've been a HCP holder, I have never carried while drunk, but I have ALWAYS never been afraid to have A drink after work/etc. Again, I stay well within the limits of 'legal impairment.'

It's a "risk" that simply doesn't bother me at all. If I'm the type to worry about being a responsible adult and having a single drink after work, I'd also be the type to worry about being hit by a meteorite on the way home. It is not now, not will it ever be on my radar of "things I worry about."

[tnhawk]

What level of risk are you willing to assume?

[DaveTN]

That's the question, can you legally unload your weapon, lock it in the trunk, and not be in illegal possession of a handgun after having a couple of drinks.

In my opinion you can. If you transport the weapon in the same fashion that the 95% of the population that don’t have a permit would be required to legally transport it; I would say you are good to go.

I don’t agree that if you are legal to drive you are legal to carry. I would think a weapon being involved is going to get you asked to take a breath test a lot faster. I know I would, and if you were carrying and blew a .07; I would arrest you. If you refused to blow you would go for DUI.

However… I don’t drink and drive…. Not even one beer. When I go out for dinner I’m drinking, so I don’t carry.

My opinion means nothing here; the only one that counts is that of the cop that stops you. It’s not okay to drink and drive and it’s not okay to carry and drink.

[Guest tommy62]

In the 18 years I've been a HCP holder, I have never carried while drunk, but I have ALWAYS never been afraid to have A drink after work/etc. Again, I stay well within the limits of 'legal impairment.'

It's a "risk" that simply doesn't bother me at all. If I'm the type to worry about being a responsible adult and having a single drink after work, I'd also be the type to worry about being hit by a meteorite on the way home. It is not now, not will it ever be on my radar of "things I worry about."

Chances are you won't need a gun anyway.

[chances R]

Anyone ever see any of those 'cop' TV shows where they all meet at the corner bar for a drink after a long day? It always makes me feel good that they stowed their sidearm in a locked case in the trunk of their car.

[Volphin]

I just play it safe and never mix the two. Was at Chili's last week for a quick snack with the better half. Was Ccing so no drinks for me. But my 1911 must have printed a bit as I got an approving nod from a fellow customer.

[Fallguy]

Anyone ever see any of those 'cop' TV shows where they all meet at the corner bar for a drink after a long day? It always makes me feel good that they stowed their sidearm in a locked case in the trunk of their car.

In some states it is not illegal to consume while armed...for off-duty LEOs or permit holders.

In TN it against the law for LEOs to be "under the influence" while armed.