Anyone ever trained at Front Sight?

[Marswolf]

Sounds like lukewarm recommendations at best.

[Guest Phantom6]

Front Site seems too smarmy slick marketing hype to me- in it for the money first.

Come to Memphis and take some classes at RangeUSA or Rangemaster- more for your money, more reputable, cheaper, little to no travel expense-

Yeah, I can vouch for a number of the instructors at RangeUSA. I trained some of their trainers from down there in Memphis. It's a long hike with some over night accomodations but they keep sending us instructor candidates so we must be doing something right here in Oak Ridge. We'll have another couple in our next instructor classes for Personal Protection. Contact Heath Bookout or Paul Beyer(?) there.

[dwcz]

I recently did the Four Day Defensive Handgun course at Front Sight. I went there in April with a close friend of mine. It was everything the marketing claimed it would be - better really.

Actually, given the marketing hype we were both skeptical going in and kind of anticipated being let down by the course. We had both heard really good things about Front Sight from trusted friends who do high level personal protection full time. We decided to go anyway because we figured if nothing else, it would be a great trip together to Vegas right before my wife and I had our first baby. Kind of a last guy type trip for awhile.

We couldn't have been more wrong. Four almost twelve hour days and a two hour night shoot with static and dynamic targets, tactical scenarios, timed and un-timed drills and skills tests to see what you learned. Every instructor we encountered was pleasant and professional - no macho drill instructor attitudes - and every instructor could perform on demand what as being taught.

To put things in perspective, there were over 500 people training at Front Sight that weekend. Handgun, shotgun and rifle courses. Our range was a 50 yard range with 20 lanes. There were 40 students in our group and we were split into 2 relays. We were paired up with another student the whole weekend (my friend and I worked together) and when one relay is on the line the other relay would be coaching from right behind. Student coaching is a big part of the experience and really imprints what you learn into your mind and enables you to teach your friends and family when you leave. Same as scuba diving training, medical training, etc. Great concept.

We had a range master and 3-4 line instructors. Our range master was Venezuela's national pistol champion (a few times if I remember correctly) and his accent made the training stick in my head even more. I still hear him behind me: "hard focus on the front sight" and "smooth trigger press"...

The consistency of instruction was worthy noting. They all taught the same methods, used the some range commands and really seemed to care that you were progressing in your training. When they noticed something that needed attention, they would step in, let you know what they were seeing and how you could correct it. Sometimes they would come up to us while we were coaching our partner and point out something our partner was doing and how we could notice and correct it.

Think about the safety logistics of over 500 people training with firearms in the same place at the same time and no one getting hurt... The only time they were demanding (for lack of a better term) was when it came to safety issues - and who would want it any other way? We had one guy who brought his father (who I wasn't convinced wanted to be there) that did a few stupid things like begin to turn around on the range with a loaded weapon - and I've never seen instructors move so fast to stop him and get the weapon pointing down range again. For the record, this dude's son was his partner and the first thing we were taught was range safety. Our first priority was to watch for our partners safe gun handling and how to safely prevent them from endangering everyone around them. We didn't see these two individuals again after the second day and I know they offer a two day course but I am not entirely convinced that they were not asked to leave because the one guy just couldn't seem to grasp basic safety issues.

Lots of dry practice - I think we only fired around 600 rounds over the four days. Dry practice is a cornerstone of Front Sight's training methods and I understand why. Whenever we would transition from dry practice to firing drills and back to dry practice, the next set of firing drills my accuracy would improve. Now I can dry practice often at home and occasionally go to the range to validate my dry practice. And I can confidently say that this method works and has worked for teaching my sister how to shoot after I attended the course.

Was there some continued marketing on the campus? Yes, but it was optional, during a few of the meal breaks and the occasional mention during discussions and the few classroom lectures. People were actualy somewhat eager to learn how they could get more of the same level of training they were experiencing. I know I'll go back again and hope to convince my wife to go.

The lectures themselves were really informative and actually enjoyable. Not boring, talking heads spewing textbook knowledge. Topics included things like the Color Code of Mental Awareness and having a combat mindset, tactics, criminal and civil liability and litigation, how to choose good self defense weapons, what weapon modifications work, choosing good equipment, etc. Great stuff.

The basic premise of the four day handgun course was that at the end, you'd be able to present from concealment and place two rounds to the thoracic cavity in 1.5 seconds at 3-5 yards. We fired from the 3-15 yard lines throughout the course. Front Sight more than delivered on this and everything else I gleaned from the course.

Highly recommended.

Edited July 2, 2009 by dwcz

[BigPoppa]

Topics included things like their signature Color Code of Mental Awareness

I don't think the Color Codes is a FrontSight "signature"....that concept is universally attributed to Col. Jeff Cooper, the founder of Gunsite.

Jeff Cooper (Marine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Otherwise, a very good review and sounds like you are a satisfied customer.

[dwcz]

I don't think the Color Codes is a FrontSight "signature"....that concept is universally attributed to Col. Jeff Cooper, the founder of Gunsite.

Jeff Cooper (Marine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Otherwise, a very good review and sounds like you are a satisfied customer.

Noted and changed. They may have mentioned him but I've had very little sleep (newborn baby). Thanks!

[TGO David]

Front Sight's training has never really been an issue for me. The reports I've read from students all seem to indicate favorable experiences. The problem that I have stems from their business practices and the significant cloud of bad-things that seems to surround their founder / chief executive. Those issues keep me from considering them as a viable option for training.

[Guest CVille]

I recently did the Four Day Defensive Handgun course at Front Sight. I went there in April with a close friend of mine. It was everything the marketing claimed it would be - better really.

I took this same class in Sept08 and agree 100%. The class was a gift and I received a nice XD45 out of the deal:)

I've had a few classes at PRI and another at Safety South. I've also heard great things about CIS. My next class will be at one of these places.

My 2cents:)

[poak]

The problem that I have stems from their business practices and the significant cloud of bad-things that seems to surround their founder / chief executive.

I remember doing some research a while back, and I came across some stuff on a non-gun related site that was saying he was tied up w/ Scientology, and that he had authorized using Front Sight grounds for recruiting

Seriously. I'm not making this up.

[Guest Fltargetmaster]

Was out there for a short course in mid-June. The place is in the middle of the desert but of course ya need a car. Coursework was fine, competent instructors. All in all, glad I went. Learned a lot and met some fine folks.

The issue with the legal problems seems to be resulting from the marketing and sales gibberish about making it a gun "resort" When you drive up to the place it's obvious it isn't a resort. There are berms and ranges everywhere, towers and such for those brave enough to do that sort of stuff. It's a far off place from TN and whatever course you take you have to factor in cost of travel, lodging ( no lodging on site) and food. Makes it rather expensive from the east US. Small but annoying issue is getting the equipment there including the 300-500 rounds of ammo. If you do go, I would not recommend planning on buying ammo there. Really costly.

The place has been pushing memberships that allow you to take all the courses you want. If you lived in Las Vegas, it might be worth it. But from Sparta.....eh not such a deal. But for a one time deal, I would recommend it for the learning how to mess with your gun inside an oven. There are course certificates on Ebay...but be cautious since there are lots of scams.

[Spiffy]

I thought the law suit was from people who had bought lots for houses there and that it had something to do with that.

I get the concept that a neighborhood of highly trained gun owners would be a safe place to live.... but how many times have you seen someone hit a golf ball out of someone's yard on those Golf Course Communities. Just saying it sounds good...... but I don;t want to live there..

If I won the powerball and could afford it, I think I would attend all the major schools just to collect the certificates to hang on the fridge.

[Guest Fltargetmaster]

From what I can gather from the really rather sketchy articles, the legal problems seem to have had their origins in the sales promises and promotions of houses and resort like features at Front Sight. The sales pitch is still there but quite subdued. ( There are two issues for Piazza and company, the other being some death resulting from an accident on one of those towers and rope courses. ) On the resort matter, it did go to court in California and some settlement was reached. Then, as I can glean from the news articles, the plaintiffs said Piazza was renegging on the settlement agreement. A federal judge appointed a receiver and the whole Front Sight operation was placed in "receivership". Then it seems, within a week or so, the judge reversed the receivership designation. Then the news articles end.

The Front Sight operation continues to market its services with "legacy memberships" from folks who failed to make payments, etc. These memberships, if they are still open, ranged from the "pay now" level of just under 2K to about 7K if you paid on time. I think this is a fairly accurate representation .

Why anyone would ever buy a land parcel in that godforsaken hellhole between Pahrump and LV is beyond me. God help you if you were to get seriously hurt out there and chopper seems the only fast way to care. The sales pitch had to be awesome., Sort of a timeshare-healthclub-resort-pieinthesky steamroller. The "memberships" at 2K probably are a good deal if you are living in the area and can commute by car. But when the actual costs are calculated, each class attended gets expensive if you have to travel and lodge and eat ( not to mention ammo at somewhere around .25 a round). And of course there is always that nagging thought that if you shell out 2K to a company that has had a history of legal problems and , frankly, what I see as somewhat shady practices what are you buying?? But, this is written by a guy who bought a Daewoo auto. But I still have the car...... As to the membership offer, I think I'll pass. As has been noted on here, there are some really good courses much closer. If someone lives in Las Vegas or over in Kalifornia it might be worth the cost.

[Guest narco]

try CIS