A.P.P.S. J Buford tune

[Guest jackdog]

I 've spent quite a bit of time researching training over the past few weeks.

Anyone out there familiar with A.P.P.S /J Buford Tune. Things I've read about his school are impressive. His web site is not full of a bunch of hype and they have a clear and concise message statement. They offer a street survival course that I think would be exciting and beneficial. I'll Be calling in the AM to talk with these folks. In the meantime if anyone has knowledge good or bad of this facility I would appreciate you posting it.

thanks

[Guest drewi]

They have had a booth at the gun shows around here for years. Been in business for a while. Not a fly-by-night compnay.

I haven't taken a class with them though.

[Guest Steelharp]

pm sent...

[tnroadrunner]

I've taken a class with them about a year and a half ago. Was called Intermediate Handgun Class. Was good. All there shooting is done at the Smyrna airport. They are also allowing the TFA to use there classroom on April 19th around 6pm as TFA is trying to start a Nashville Chapter.

[Guest Loaded247]

I went there a couple of years ago, as they hosted a Remington Police Armorer's Course. However, Remington actually did the course, so I don't know how Mr. Tune is as a trainer. I've never heard anything negative about them.

[Marswolf]

Well, he has a little hype....

IF YOU COMPLETED A HANDGUN PERMIT COURSE

AT ANOTHER SCHOOL, AND STILL FEEL YOU NEED

OR WANT MORE TRAINING, YOU MAY ATTEND

TRAINING WITH A.P.P.S.

IF YOU DON'T GET 10 TIMES MORE OUT OF

OUR TRAINING, WE WILL TRIPLE

YOUR MONEY BACK!!

But his courses look pretty practical. Not Rambo wannabe stuff.

He seems to be pretty respected. He's a retired Senior Tactical Officer with the Metropolitan Nashville PD and was appointed to the Emergency Communications District Board. Also has several 2A groups that say nice things about him.

A cursory check looks OK.

[Guest GlocKingTN]

Sounds interesting! And sounds like he may know a little about training!

[Guest jackdog]

I did find out that their permit course is a 2 day event.

Is it ten times better than other permit courses?

2 days versus one would make me think that the material was covered a lot better and that they probably got some pistol instruction. We batted around training from different schools on this forum a couple of times. One, I would like to take their street defense course for the training, But more importantly to me, if I do have do defend myself and end up in a civil suite, I don't want some lawyer representing my training as being a course for wannabee macho gun toters who are looking for a fight. So far everything I've found on APPS Is positive in this regard. I do intend on visiting the school and would like to observe if possible their training techniques, prior to making a final decision

[Guest Len]

Buford's a trip. Warning: He is very anti-Glock, so expect some "ribbing" and guidance on why the 1911 is the way to go.

I've email corresponded with him -he is deadly serious about his business. He called my boss once and inquired what gave him the right to use the Special Forces logo on his website. He was not happy that the logo was possibly being used inappropriately. (Not to worry, my boss served in the Army Special Forces, and after explaning such to Mr. Tune, all was well.)

His place is also where the local media always turn when they want a comment on gun legislation or carry classes, etc.

Excellent idea to visit, talk, observe. Also, ask for course evaluations, etc. Student references are always usuful.

-Len

Instructor, HGR Firearms

www.hgrfirearms.com

[Guest jackdog]

Thanks for the info Len. Hey lot a folks don't like glock or Dodge trucks, Guess he will get over it.

[Marswolf]

Warning: He is very anti-Glock,

I thought he sounded like someone who knows what he is doing.

He called my boss once and inquired what gave him the right to use the Special Forces logo on his website. He was not happy that the logo was possibly being used inappropriately. (Not to worry, my boss served in the Army Special Forces, and after explaning such to Mr. Tune, all was well.)

I'd love to talk to him about his opinion of all the schools.

[Guest jackdog]

I intend to call them this AM and set up a in person meeting. I have a marid of questions to ask, including thier knowledge of other schools. Will let you know what I find out.

[Guest jackdog]

Well, I called APPS/ Buford tune this AM. Had a pretty good conversation with the gentlemen. Good enough that We arranged to get together at his facility on Friday morning. He answered all my queries very fully, and I did not since any B.S. Of course talking on the phone and meeting face to face are two entirely different things. Guess I'll know what I'll do after our Friday meeting.

[Marswolf]

He sounds pretty straight-forward. Let us know your view of him after you meet.

[Guest jackdog]

I was there, Buford was not. Spoke with a couple of his staff for about 90 Minutes. Actually I was not all that impressed, but to be fair I never did talk to Buford. Wish he would have called me to tell me he was not going to be available. Buford not only does not like Glocks he is a wheel gun fan and his staff seems to follow his lead. Nothing wrong with a wheel gun I own a couple myself.

[towerclimber37]

hahahaha cool..my next pistol will likely be a glock. I have a 45..but can't shoot it for crap. My brother is going to give me a pistol course on it when he gets home in June.

as for getting someone with an excellent reputation to teach the concealed carry course...I'm right there with ya Jackdog!

[Marswolf]

I was there, Buford was not.

Well, that isn't good. He knew you were coming to see him personally? Have to give him a big demerit for that.

Sounds like Buford is old school. Wheel guns have their place. I think Hancock County still uses them. Some of my older LE friends used them and still use them after retirement. Up until guns like the Kel-Tec P-3AT came out, I used to recommend "hammerless" wheel guns for pocket book use. These days, with the smaller and safe pistols, I don't recommend keeping the carry gun in the purse at all but the little guns do work better in a pocket book too, if desired.

As I keep preaching, you need to check people out before signing up. We only got half the story on Buford before your visit. Thanks for the report!

[Marswolf]

hahahaha cool..my next pistol will likely be a glock.

Suit yourself, but for most people I think an XD is a better choice if you just insist on a "Glock-like" gun. Of course you don't get the Glock pseudo-status.

We gotta do lunch when you get back.

[Guest jackdog]

Based on what is staff was telling me Buford is not just anti Glock, but anti semi auto. They were telling me of all the LEO's that have been injured by Glocks and other Semi's. But when you start to listen to the details of the incidents they were describing, basically it was due to stupidity and operator error. You can't blame a fire arm because the operator is an ass. As far as the school I was interested primarily in their course on street survival. It turns out that they don't have a an actual course on street survival, but it's part of there permit course. But like you, Mars prior to plunking down my cash and future reputation, you need to actually investigate who you are thinking about training with. Buford may well run the finest permit course in the state, but after yesterday I doubt that I would ever use his facility.

[Guest jackdog]

Well made decent use of my time. Went to bass pro to check on Savage rim fires. They had some 17HMR's but no .22's with ACCu-trigger system. Spent some time looking at the Smith &Wesson M&P 40 Cal. Very nice firearm would love to shoot it. Hit another Gun shop and took a close look at the XD's. Once again nice balance good feel and ya I would love to shoot one. As for Glock well I have carried my 23 for years, put well over 3000 rounds through it and the only time it has ever failed to fire has been on a range, and it was an ammo problem. To me that speaks volumes to liability, and thats priceless if you life depends on it. Tower when we gonna get together and shoot.

[shaftbass]

Well I'm anti-rubber tires. Look at all the wrecks involving cars with rubber tires. This is ridiculous! We need to go back to using wood and steel wagon wheels as there were far less injuries when using these wheels.

[Marswolf]

You can't blame a fire arm because the operator is an ass....

I partially agree with you. People get shot by their own guns because they were doing something stupid. But some guns make it easier to do stupid stuff than others.

I think I'm pretty objective about this. This isn't some "my gun is best because that's what I have" thing. Glocks seem to have a safety problem that other guns don't have. I don't understand all the denial and defensiveness about that.

Back to Buford, I'm disappointed in him. Sounds like he has made up his mind and no amount of reason is going to change it.

[towerclimber37]

Suit yourself, but for most people I think an XD is a better choice if you just insist on a "Glock-like" gun. Of course you don't get the Glock pseudo-status.

We gotta do lunch when you get back.

Mars, I don't care about the status thing..I'm a believer in J. Moses Browning myself...and His 10 commandments. I want a RELIABLE pistol. After I saw some of the stuff a guy put his glock through, well...I want to try one on.

I'm sure everyone has seen the 10 commandments according to John moses browning..if you haven't I'll post it.

as for lunch...sounds great! I will be bringing Julie as well and hopefully by that time, we'll be members of the cherokee rod and gun club..so we can go shoot some!

I want to meet all the tri city area guys when I get back, if I can. LILBucket, you, Jackdog (whom I have alot of respect for as well!)

and all the other guys that I just enjoy reading their posts!

More than likely, I will be bringing an old army buddy of mine as well. He'll be up for my wedding!

[Rifleman]

As someone who has been through a fair amount of training courses may I offer some advice?

I would not cross this school off my list (or any school) because the owner is not courteous enough to make an appointment, or has strong feelings about a type of gun. He probably has some very good reasons for his opinions, and may have something valuable to teach.

This is what is known as instructor shopping. It is not always a good idea to judge the school based on the reputation (good or bad) of the director. I know because I did it when I first got started. Then a wise 5th group Master Sargent told me to stop picking apart instructors and just go listen and learn. If you disagree with everything the guy teaches, you can throw it away. You still got two or three days of concentrated time using your gun without interruption and that is always valuable. Mr. Tune as stubborn and rude as he may be could pass one little thing on to you that may one day save a life.

This is why Tactical Response does not announce who will be teaching a particular course. They don't want people coming just to see Mickey Mouse (Yeager).

Go to a school with wide open mind, no ego, ready to learn and see what you take away. If at the end of the experience it is disappointing, don't go back. If you feel enlightened, consider seeing what else they have to teach.

[towerclimber37]

Rifleman..nice post!