Deciding on a CCW

[MiddTennTaco]

Turns out its not as easy as I thought!

Basically, I know exactly what I want in a CCW but I am having the darnedest time finding a handgun with all or most of the features.

What I WANT in order of what I WANT most:

1. Reliability, accuracy

2. Less than 1.1 inches wide at any point (yes, a Glock is too wide for me)

3. 15 rnds

4. 9mm

5. I want my pinky to grip the frame, not a magazine extention

6. DA/SA, I want to carry locked and cocked

7. Not too expensive, however if it meets all the criteria I swear I would pay $5,000 and the same amount to someone who finds it! lol

8. Polymer Frame, lightweight

From what I understand, no such thing exists. What I'm considering so far are the Kahr CW9 and the Bersa BP9. Neither obviously meet the criteria at all but they are some of the closest that I can find. I guess I'm picky! CW9 is thin but only has 7+1 rnds and is NOT DA/SA. The Bersa BP9 falls short at 8+1 rnds and not being DA/SA. However I favor the Kahr merely based on reputation.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. I've had a Glock 19 Gen 4 but it doesn't work for me. It has too much width and my fingers are too wide and end up sitting on the finger grips ridges making it painful to shoot. Besides, I just sold it! Thanks TGO!

[MrBrian]

You're gonna have to lose about half of your want list in order to find something that actually exists...

[strickj]

A RIA 2011 will be close.

[peejman]

#2 and #3 are the biggest problems. A narrow gun must be a single stack. A single stack 15 rd magazine would be very long. A 9mm 1911 variant would be close.

[Lumber_Jack]

#2 and #3 are the biggest problems. A narrow gun must be a single stack. A single stack 15 rd magazine would be very long. A 9mm 1911 variant would be close.

Agreed. Get a 9mm 1911. It will be about 1.45 in wide, and only carry ~9 rounds, but this is as close as your gonna get.

Here is one with a bobtail. Helps reduce grip length (concealment).

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-guardian/

[Guest jkintn]

I'm going through this same decision-making process right now. At this point, I think I'm going to buy two guns - one that is concealable with coat/sweatshirt/pullover and one for summer carry. I think I'm down to a few choices for the "less-concealable" model - G19, M&P9c, SR9c as these provide >10-rd capacity and would be more fun to shoot at the range as well. For a summer carry, I'm still searching but current considerations (wide price range) are PM9/CM9, LC9, PPS, DB9 and maybe G26 (but probably too wide).

[subsonic]

I recently picked up a CZ 75 Compact, most of the criteria you listed are a match, or very close. Frame is 1" wide, 14 rounds, grip long enough, DA/SA version available and what I have, accurate and reliable. The RAMI is similar and weighs a bit less.

[Guest drwright6]

Give the Beretta PX4 Storm Compact a look. I absolutely love mine. It's just a little wider than what your looking for, but you won't have to give up anything else. With my MaxTuck holster, I carry all day with jeans and a t-shirt with no problem. Good luck !!!!

[Guest GregK]

A slim decocker and slide release lever can also be installed on the PX4 models.

[Jonnin]

Turns out its not as easy as I thought!

Basically, I know exactly what I want in a CCW but I am having the darnedest time finding a handgun with all or most of the features.

What I WANT in order of what I WANT most:

1. Reliability, accuracy

2. Less than 1.1 inches wide at any point (yes, a Glock is too wide for me)

3. 15 rnds

4. 9mm

5. I want my pinky to grip the frame, not a magazine extention

6. DA/SA, I want to carry locked and cocked

7. Not too expensive, however if it meets all the criteria I swear I would pay $5,000 and the same amount to someone who finds it! lol

8. Polymer Frame, lightweight

From what I understand, no such thing exists. What I'm considering so far are the Kahr CW9 and the Bersa BP9. Neither obviously meet the criteria at all but they are some of the closest that I can find. I guess I'm picky! CW9 is thin but only has 7+1 rnds and is NOT DA/SA. The Bersa BP9 falls short at 8+1 rnds and not being DA/SA. However I favor the Kahr merely based on reputation.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. I've had a Glock 19 Gen 4 but it doesn't work for me. It has too much width and my fingers are too wide and end up sitting on the finger grips ridges making it painful to shoot. Besides, I just sold it! Thanks TGO!

CZ - RAMI.

1) absolutely.

2) 1.25. I do not think you will find a double stack at 1.1 (??)

3) 10-13 rounds. Is 13 enough?

4) 9mm, check

5) Nope, its a mag extension. Unless your hands are small.

6) DA and cocked and locked. Actually only the CZ (and some clones like EAA) are this way, most are either DA not C&L or SA/C&L

7) reasonably priced

8) your choice: both metal and poly models.

So, basically it fails the pinky extension, the width (barely), and 13/15 rounds. Pretty close. I love mine.

[Jonnin]

Ruger SR9

1) not sure. Most rugers are reliable. Accurate? Not like the cz, but probably OK.

2) 1.25, as above

3) 15 I think. I am not 100% sure.

4) 9mm

5) frame is grip, check

6) unsafe action: fail

7) average price

8) plastic, check

Fails the action (striker, not DA and certainly not cocked and locked), the width (again, hard to get lower than 1.25), is not going to be target pistol accurate (most likely).

[Jonnin]

I have a px4. It is way, way too fat for its size, and that is after I ground the safetys flat so its not just the safety. It is not cocked and locked. It is not terribly accurate (average, at best). It is a bit heavy. All in all I would say it does not meet too many of 1-8. I like mine, a lot, but it does not match up IMHO.

[A.J. Holst]

I too urge you to check out the CZ line, I carry a 75B Omega (full size, steel) but alloy and polymer models available.

The P07 Duty meets all your qualifcations except misses the mark at 1.46" wide

I think a high cap @ 1.1" is going to be tough with about any handgun.

[bullitt3989]

How are you planning to carry iwb or owb. I carry a glock 19 everyday iwb and never think twice. I had a pf9 I could pocket carry and it was real concealable but shot awful. I can second the cz remark had a p01 great gun.

[MiddTennTaco]

You're gonna have to lose about half of your want list in order to find something that actually exists...

Sadly, you are correct.

#2 and #3 are the biggest problems. A narrow gun must be a single stack. A single stack 15 rd magazine would be very long. A 9mm 1911 variant would be close.

Granted. I've been searching through a plethoria of 9mm 1911 but everyone seems to say that they're unreliable in 9mm and its hard finding thin ones.

Agreed. Get a 9mm 1911. It will be about 1.45 in wide, and only carry ~9 rounds, but this is as close as your gonna get.

Here is one with a bobtail. Helps reduce grip length (concealment).

http://www.cz-usa.co...esson-guardian/

Pretty big and pricey. However I have been looking at the Springfield EMP in 9mm. Its rather slim at 1.18" on the frame. It's not out of the question for me.

I'm going through this same decision-making process right now. At this point, I think I'm going to buy two guns - one that is concealable with coat/sweatshirt/pullover and one for summer carry. I think I'm down to a few choices for the "less-concealable" model - G19, M&P9c, SR9c as these provide >10-rd capacity and would be more fun to shoot at the range as well. For a summer carry, I'm still searching but current considerations (wide price range) are PM9/CM9, LC9, PPS, DB9 and maybe G26 (but probably too wide).

I know, its a tough choice. I think that's a great idea having two different guns. I'd rather stick to one system at this time though.

I recently picked up a CZ 75 Compact, most of the criteria you listed are a match, or very close. Frame is 1" wide, 14 rounds, grip long enough, DA/SA version available and what I have, accurate and reliable. The RAMI is similar and weighs a bit less.

If only it WERE 1". Sadly it measures around 1.4" at the frame. The RAMI, however, is one of the newest contenders now. It's 1.25" at the frame.

CZ - RAMI.

1) absolutely.

2) 1.25. I do not think you will find a double stack at 1.1 (??)

3) 10-13 rounds. Is 13 enough?

4) 9mm, check

5) Nope, its a mag extension. Unless your hands are small.

6) DA and cocked and locked. Actually only the CZ (and some clones like EAA) are this way, most are either DA not C&L or SA/C&L

7) reasonably priced

8) your choice: both metal and poly models.

So, basically it fails the pinky extension, the width (barely), and 13/15 rounds. Pretty close. I love mine.

13 is actually plenty. I'd be willing to go as low as 10. The RAMI definately appeals. I've always loved CZ's especially with their DA/SA action.

I too urge you to check out the CZ line, I carry a 75B Omega (full size, steel) but alloy and polymer models available.

The P07 Duty meets all your qualifcations except misses the mark at 1.46" wide

I think a high cap @ 1.1" is going to be tough with about any handgun.

Yes, I think I am wishing for too much. Sadly, I'm probably gonna have to make a compromise.

How are you planning to carry iwb or owb. I carry a glock 19 everyday iwb and never think twice. I had a pf9 I could pocket carry and it was real concealable but shot awful. I can second the cz remark had a p01 great gun.

I'm only ever going to carry IWB. The Glock was nice but I couldn't grip it right. I've got wide fingers and near the bottom of the grip my fingers end up resting on the ridges of the finger grooves. I hate those finger grooves but I'm not brave enough to have them taken off. I've tried the Glock 19 in an IWB and on my hips it just SCREAMS Look at ME I'm a gun. Even if I wear a sweater over my shirt over the gun, it still pokes through. I've tried angling the carry at every which way and it just didn't work out for me. It's a little too thick.

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As an update to everyone I've narrowed my choices down to two different guns at two opposite extremes. I do plan on getting a Supertuck for whatever handgun I get.

I'm considering the RAMI which is actually a little thicker than the G19 but won't have those annoying and painful finger grooves and texturing. It also has my highly coveted DA/SA feature as well as a high round count. CZ is very well known for being reliable and accurate and I would easily trust my life with such a gun. Just a little expensive but I'd easily manage.

On the exact opposite hand, we have the Kel Tec P11. Why not the PF9? The P11 comes with a 12 round 9mm magazine. It's still very thin at 1" at the widest point. Also available are Smith and Wesson Model 59 magazines @ 15 rnds with grip extensions. The P11 comes in super cheap at less than $300, sadly. The reason I say that is that I would rather pay a lot more for something so that I would feel more confident in carrying it. Not the greatest reputation out there and not the most accurate gun out there and the reliability seems iffy on these guns from what everyone seems to say.

I'm also very slightly considering the Springfield EMP but it seems like I would be paying far too much for a still thick 1911 with 7+1 capacity

On the up-side, for the price I could probably easily buy two and strap them both on! I'm just kidding. Anyway, thank you all of the responses SO FAR. They have been extremely helpful. I wasn't expecting so many people to drop in.

Recommendations/comments still very much so appreciated and I look forward to more responses.

[Lumber_Jack]

I think the first thing on your list that needs adjusting is width. I'm not sure your gonna notice a real world difference in .2 inches. A 1.5 in width gun is pretty slim. IMHO

[Guest Kamikaze]

If you can live with 9 rounds and a thin spare mag you should look at a Sig P6. You can get one for around $350-$450. I have one and love it. It's thin, light weight, DA/SA with a decocker. It's the most accurate pistol I own. A center mass shot at 100 is a 9 out of 10 shot with mine. It's not a polymer frame but it's very light. No pinky extension here.

[Jonnin]

.2 inches is significant for pocket carry, not much else. I can tell a huge difference between my rami and my px4 in width.

Kel tec is an interesting choice. I will say this: you get what you pay for. The kel tec is a great size and price, and it has a lifetime full service warranty. But there is no nice way to say it: the cz is better in just about every category (except price), IMHO. I had a kel tec (used and sold to me broken) and they rebuilt it from the ground up for free, after that it worked flawlessly. And I would still not trade you my rami for 3 or 4 of them.

[subsonic]

"If only it WERE 1". Sadly it measures around 1.4" at the frame. The RAMI, however, is one of the newest contenders now. It's 1.25" at the frame".

Double check that. I was a cabinet builder for over 20 years and my tape measure says 1".

http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o526/subsonic55/DSCN0424.jpg

Edited February 15, 2012 by subsonic

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

I can only voice what I know about first hand and I do LOVE and I do mean LOVE my Ruger SR9!

I also had a "c" model which I only sold because a friend wanted one so bad and for no other reason. I know these have been mentioned but will add my old man's opinion. I like the weapons well enough to do that much.

1. Reliability, accuracy I have nearly 5K rounds through the first full size that I bought and have not had any function problems what so ever from it, my newer full size or the compact that I had. I also shoot very well with this gun, a bit better than I did with the "c" version. The full size has a .64" longer barrel than the compact, not a lot but seemed to make a difference to me.

2. Less than 1.1 inches wide at any point (yes, a Glock is too wide for me) Well NO not quite that thin, the SR's are 1.27 wide which is still rather thin for a double stack mag.

3. 15 rnds Yep 17+1 with either the full size or the compact model, the compact ships with one 17 and one 10 round mag.

4. 9mm Yep

5. I want my pinky to grip the frame, not a magazine extension No problem with the full size, might be close with the compact depending on your hand size. But the slip-on extensions that they use for the compacts and 17 round mags does not feel like an extension at all. If you was to use the gun with the 10 round mag it may be a little short for your pinky to fit. I dont think I ever shot my compact with the 10 round mag. Grip length on the full size is 5.52" and the compact is 4.61", a tad less than an inch difference.

6. DA/SA, I want to carry locked and cocked Again no, not locked and cocked but chambered and locked with an easy to reach manual safety to unlock.

The triggers are pretty nice IMO and while not a DA/SA or a Short Reset like Sig makes they still do not feel like a full DA trigger either. FWIW they also have a loaded chamber indicator which I could take or leave. The mag disconnect safety is very easy to remove and from what I understand helps the trigger somewhat, I have just left mine as they came.

7. Not too expensive, however if it meets all the criteria I swear I would pay $5,000 and the same amount to someone who finds it! lol

8. Polymer Frame, lightweight Yes again to both of those last ones. These guns can be found around the $400 range and while Ruger does not advertise any lifetime warranty I have yet to hear of anyone who had any problems getting things done with their customer service. Being an American made weapon is something that also means something to me while it may or may not to you.

Good luck to you with whatever you end up with.

Most important....Stay Aware, Avoid if at all possible and Stay Safe.

[Jonnin]

"If only it WERE 1". Sadly it measures around 1.4" at the frame. The RAMI, however, is one of the newest contenders now. It's 1.25" at the frame".

Double check that. I was a cabinet builder for over 20 years and my tape measure says 1".

http://i1146.photobu...55/DSCN0424.jpg

1.25 is off the CZ page, and probably the widest part of the gun they could find (?). I agree most of the pistol is thinner. Same for some of the others listed, the widest part vs most of the frame.

[Tri-Cities Bob]

As before, you're going to have to give up some of your requirements. You say you want a light CCW that carries 15 rounds. Think about what just 15 rounds of ammo weighs.

Take a look at the Sig Sauer P239. It's available in several calibers, including 9mm and it has a 8+1 capacity in 9mm. It is generally accepted as very accurate and reliable -- it's a Sig. For a compact pistol the grip is relativel large and comfortable and it's 1.2 inches wide. It's also a DA/SA. It has a stainless steel slide and an aluminum frame, so it's not super light, but it's probably quite a bit lighter than anything you'll carry with 15 rounds. It will probably run you about $700, but that includes two 8 round magazines. I understand a 10 round magazine is available (it has an extension) but I haven't seen one yet.

Good luck!

[MiddTennTaco]

.2 inches is significant for pocket carry, not much else. I can tell a huge difference between my rami and my px4 in width.

Kel tec is an interesting choice. I will say this: you get what you pay for. The kel tec is a great size and price, and it has a lifetime full service warranty. But there is no nice way to say it: the cz is better in just about every category (except price), IMHO. I had a kel tec (used and sold to me broken) and they rebuilt it from the ground up for free, after that it worked flawlessly. And I would still not trade you my rami for 3 or 4 of them.

Yeah, you get what you pay for, youre right. I heard Kel Tec has a great warranty. The problem is that its hard to fulfill a warranty from the grave. I think I've kind of ruled out that gun altogether now. Thank you, I appreciate your opinion.

"If only it WERE 1". Sadly it measures around 1.4" at the frame. The RAMI, however, is one of the newest contenders now. It's 1.25" at the frame".

Double check that. I was a cabinet builder for over 20 years and my tape measure says 1".

http://i1146.photobu...55/DSCN0424.jpg

No disrespect meant, sir. I simply was reading the specs off of the CZ website. I guess the frame of the gun is wider than the slide.

I can only voice what I know about first hand and I do LOVE and I do mean LOVE my Ruger SR9!

I also had a "c" model which I only sold because a friend wanted one so bad and for no other reason. I know these have been mentioned but will add my old man's opinion. I like the weapons well enough to do that much.

1. Reliability, accuracy I have nearly 5K rounds through the first full size that I bought and have not had any function problems what so ever from it, my newer full size or the compact that I had. I also shoot very well with this gun, a bit better than I did with the "c" version. The full size has a .64" longer barrel than the compact, not a lot but seemed to make a difference to me.

2. Less than 1.1 inches wide at any point (yes, a Glock is too wide for me) Well NO not quite that thin, the SR's are 1.27 wide which is still rather thin for a double stack mag.

3. 15 rnds Yep 17+1 with either the full size or the compact model, the compact ships with one 17 and one 10 round mag.

4. 9mm Yep

5. I want my pinky to grip the frame, not a magazine extension No problem with the full size, might be close with the compact depending on your hand size. But the slip-on extensions that they use for the compacts and 17 round mags does not feel like an extension at all. If you was to use the gun with the 10 round mag it may be a little short for your pinky to fit. I dont think I ever shot my compact with the 10 round mag. Grip length on the full size is 5.52" and the compact is 4.61", a tad less than an inch difference.

6. DA/SA, I want to carry locked and cocked Again no, not locked and cocked but chambered and locked with an easy to reach manual safety to unlock.

The triggers are pretty nice IMO and while not a DA/SA or a Short Reset like Sig makes they still do not feel like a full DA trigger either. FWIW they also have a loaded chamber indicator which I could take or leave. The mag disconnect safety is very easy to remove and from what I understand helps the trigger somewhat, I have just left mine as they came.

7. Not too expensive, however if it meets all the criteria I swear I would pay $5,000 and the same amount to someone who finds it! lol

8. Polymer Frame, lightweight Yes again to both of those last ones. These guns can be found around the $400 range and while Ruger does not advertise any lifetime warranty I have yet to hear of anyone who had any problems getting things done with their customer service. Being an American made weapon is something that also means something to me while it may or may not to you.

Good luck to you with whatever you end up with.

Most important....Stay Aware, Avoid if at all possible and Stay Safe.

I definitely love the capacity of the SR9. However, at that width, I might as well have kept my Glock because its a little thinner. However, what I do like about it thats different from the glock is that its a striker fired gun WITH a safety. And I actually do like the magazine disconnect. I held one today and was disappointed with how it felt, though.

1.25 is off the CZ page, and probably the widest part of the gun they could find (?). I agree most of the pistol is thinner. Same for some of the others listed, the widest part vs most of the frame.

Yeah, I'm guessing the frame is the widest part.

As before, you're going to have to give up some of your requirements. You say you want a light CCW that carries 15 rounds. Think about what just 15 rounds of ammo weighs.

Take a look at the Sig Sauer P239. It's available in several calibers, including 9mm and it has a 8+1 capacity in 9mm. It is generally accepted as very accurate and reliable -- it's a Sig. For a compact pistol the grip is relativel large and comfortable and it's 1.2 inches wide. It's also a DA/SA. It has a stainless steel slide and an aluminum frame, so it's not super light, but it's probably quite a bit lighter than anything you'll carry with 15 rounds. It will probably run you about $700, but that includes two 8 round magazines. I understand a 10 round magazine is available (it has an extension) but I haven't seen one yet.

Good luck!

I'm actually completely willing to look past the weight if it gives me 15 rounds. I'm definitely looking at the Sig P239. I was looking for it today but didn't find any. From what I understand its somewhat of a dated gun, however. It's kind of fat, too.

I think at the moment, if I could find an extended magazine for the Kahr CW9, I would be in business. So far, I've only found a 8 round extended magazine. Other than that, all I can find are grip extensions, not round count extensions. I held this one today and I actually really don't mind the trigger

At this point, I might be better off designing and building my own pistol to how I like it!

Right now I'm looking for 10+ rnd single stack DA/SA handgun that is < 1.1".

[subsonic]

"No disrespect meant, sir. I simply was reading the specs off of the CZ website. I guess the frame of the gun is wider than the slide".

Absolutely none taken. The widest part is the grips, which if you remove, the entire frame is 1" wide. The full size CZ 75 may be wider, but the Compact isn't. As well, it's available with either 10 or 14 round mags.

[MiddTennTaco]

"No disrespect meant, sir. I simply was reading the specs off of the CZ website. I guess the frame of the gun is wider than the slide".

Absolutely none taken. The widest part is the grips, which if you remove, the entire frame is 1" wide. The full size CZ 75 may be wider, but the Compact isn't. As well, it's available with either 10 or 14 round mags.

I am extremely interested. What do you mean by removing the grips? The entire gun besides the grips are 1"? I find that really interesting. That would really be... perfect! It really does sound like a winner. That or the RAMI.

I went to a gun store today and they don't carry any it. Anybody see a CZ 75 Compact at their local gun stores near Murfreesboro/Nashville area? I'd love to check one of these out. Or anyone interested in letting me check theirs out?