CCW in church with ND

[Guest Coolboarder8913]

This may have been addressed already and I just over looked it so sorry if this is a repost.

Did anyone ask why he had the gun at church to show someone? Does that seem a little ironic to anyone else? Why not just leave it in the car and show it outside where people aren't right on top of each other? Why go in a closet to begin with if you felt it was ok to bring a LOADED gun into a church and be playing with? I do not carry at church because I feel like I am safe in my church. If you do not feel safe enough to go in and worship without being armed maybe you should find a new church.

Just my opinion.

[mikegideon]

This may have been addressed already and I just over looked it so sorry if this is a repost.

Did anyone ask why he had the gun at church to show someone? Does that seem a little ironic to anyone else? Why not just leave it in the car and show it outside where people aren't right on top of each other? Why go in a closet to begin with if you felt it was ok to bring a LOADED gun into a church and be playing with? I do not carry at church because I feel like I am safe in my church. If you do not feel safe enough to go in and worship without being armed maybe you should find a new church.

Just my opinion.

It needs to be loaded if you're carrying it. Nothing wrong with carrying in church. The trouble started when the dumbass pulled the trigger. It's that simple.

[Guest Coolboarder8913]

It needs to be loaded if you're carrying it. Nothing wrong with carrying in church. The trouble started when the dumbass pulled the trigger. It's that simple.

First thing I do if I show someone one of my guns is take the mag out and drop the round out of the chamber. That way stuff like this doesnt happen.

[daddyo]

This may have been addressed already and I just over looked it so sorry if this is a repost.

Did anyone ask why he had the gun at church to show someone? Does that seem a little ironic to anyone else? Why not just leave it in the car and show it outside where people aren't right on top of each other? Why go in a closet to begin with if you felt it was ok to bring a LOADED gun into a church and be playing with? I do not carry at church because I feel like I am safe in my church. If you do not feel safe enough to go in and worship without being armed maybe you should find a new church.

Just my opinion.

I wonder if Pastor Fred Winters felt "safe" when he was shot dead in the pulpit on March 8, 2009 at First Baptist Church in Maryville, Illinois?

I carry every Sunday I am in worship and Sunday School, as do some of the other members and several of the ministers, because the simple fact is that church buildings are no safer than any place else. If you think they are, you have succeeded in fooling yourself.

Edited February 15, 2012 by DaddyO

[mikegideon]

First thing I do if I show someone one of my guns is take the mag out and drop the round out of the chamber. That way stuff like this doesnt happen.

All of the safety rules are important. Some may be more important that others.

[mikegideon]

I wonder if Pastor Fred Winters felt "safe" when he was shot dead in the pulpit on March 8, 2009 at First Baptist Church in Maryville, Illinois?

I carry every Sunday I am in worship and Sunday School, as do some of the other members and several of the ministers, because churches are no safer than any place else.

He obviously wasn't protected by LibFu, which is that thing that makes liberals bullet proof.

[Caster]

I wonder if Pastor Fred Winters felt "safe" when he was shot dead in the pulpit on March 8, 2009 at First Baptist Church in Maryville, Illinois?

Or I wonder if maintenance man James Matheny felt safe at the Nashville Emanuel Church of Christ when [then] pastor John David Terry shot, decapitated, and then set his body and the church on fire back in 1987???

[Makiaveli]

This was no accident. There's NO SUCH THING AS AN ACCIDENT.

It's sad, but this happened because the guy was an idiot. Plain and simple. Just like all the others we read about and discuss. Negligence is pure, unadulterated idiocy.

Quoted as "He didn't know one was in the chamber" Hmmmm IDIOT! There's a few other dumb factors we can assume. First, he had his finger on the trigger. It wouldn't have went off it he didn't. Second, muzzle discipline. Did he know it was pointed in a safe direction. Hmm obviously not.

I don't know what they'll do to him, but a public beating would be nice.

Exactly. No new laws needed here. Just enforce the ones we have. Someone was holding that gun when it went off. End of story.

Also, what does "ND" mean? I am guessing "discharge" but N?

[Guest NYCrulesU]

Bottom line...this was not a ND or a AD...it was just plain STUPIDITY.

While carrying, I've "shown" my gun to someone once. There a few of us that were carrying and talking at a friends house....he asked me to see my G19. I drew it from my holster, aimed it at the ground, dropped the magazine and placed it in my pocket and cleared the chambered round...placing it in my shirt pocket. Quickly double and triple checked to be sure it was clear. Then handed my gun to him butt first, still facing down.

The puzzled look on two of the idiots standing there was priceless. One even asked "Why ya doin that? He just wanna see it".

It amazes me how many permit holders and gun owners don't have the slightest CLUE about gun safety. For anyone to expect someone to hand over a loaded and chambered gun...is just pure stupidity and good way to get someone killed or be killed.

Sometimes a little paranoia and OCD will keep you alive.

In this story...dumbA #1 was showing off his gun and didn't make sure it was clear causing an innocent bystander to be shot. Doesn't get much more stupid than that.

Edited February 15, 2012 by NYCrulesU

[Guest NYCrulesU]

Exactly. No new laws needed here. Just enforce the ones we have. Someone was holding that gun when it went off. End of story.

Also, what does "ND" mean? I am guessing "discharge" but N?

ND - Negligent Discharge

AD - Accidental Discharge

Neither exist in my opinion. Just stupid people, doing stupid things acting in an unsafe manner.

[Makiaveli]

ND - Negligent Discharge

AD - Accidental Discharge

Neither exist in my opinion. Just stupid people, doing stupid things acting in an unsafe manner.

Gotcha. Dain Bramage moment there. I would say thought that being stupid is being negligent, and those Remington rifles sure sounded like AD to me.

2. Have you gone to a gun show and talked to the folks waving their guns around and sell to anyone, no questions asked? Any convicted fellon rapist or mentally defective can buy a gun there if they had cash but yet if I go to a gun shop I have to pay so much more, Tax Tic,s and their markup.

So your solution is what? Make every person who wants to sell a gun have to go get a license? Go thru a dealer? Sounds awful non-American to me.

3. Lots of states have no guns in bars and churches. This would not be necessary if you had a real background check, real training reqirements for CCW and a ferderal license to buy and sell firearms.

So if I want to buy a gun, I have to go check with the Feds first? So you want to repeal the 2nd amendment? I mean based on what you say it would be meaningless. Also, please explain how banning guns in churches would stop people from carrying them anyway when the existing laws don't seem to be doing much?

4. I am standing up for the rights of responsible gun owners because we will surely lose this right if CCW holders continue to proliferate that are shooting innocent people in church.

Oh gotcha. Since some other people are morons, I have to be punished. How about we just punish the idiots severely enough that maybe the remaining ones will wise up or else wind up imprisoned for life or buried at state expense?

[daddyo]

Exactly how would regulating it have prevented this from happening?

HOW MANY innocent people have been injured or died at the hands of citizens who carry legally in states that allow them to carry in places that serve alcohol or churches?

I'm still waiting for True Grit to answer these questions.

[strickj]

Who'd thunk we'd have so many anti-gun fools around here?

[True Grit]

I'm still waiting for True Grit to answer these questions.

The CCW holder with the ND in the Florida church was a law abiding citizen and was not charged in the shooting. The shooting would never have happened if his firearm had a magazine disconnect. If Florida had banned guns in churches as in several other states then the law abiding CCW would not be showing off his firearm to begin with. I realize that there is nothing you can do to stop shootings by criminals other than a better justice system with severe punishment. If you think by carrying a firearm in church you can stop criminals yourself you are delusional. I personally witnessed a church shooting when my father, the minister of a Baptist church in Mississippi, was preaching and a man walked down to the pulpit with his dog on a leash holding a gun and ordered everyone out. He then shot his dog and then himself. In Mississippi you can not CCW in church but if it was allowed I don't believe it would have stopped him or could have been much worse with someone shooting a choir member or my dad by accident.

I am all for the 2nd amendment but it refers to the right of people to own firearms. It is up to each state to regulate it. I believe anyone who carries a firearm in public should be better trained than what I have seen in my HCP class.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

I am all for the 2nd amendment but it refers to the right of people to own firearms.

Wow. Just wow.

The Second Amendment states in part "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"Bear" means (among other things), "To carry from one place to another; transport."

How is this hard to understand? I will never understand how one sentence can be so misunderstood by so many people.

Edited February 16, 2012 by ArmaDeFuego

[Guest NYCrulesU]

The CCW holder with the ND in the Florida church was a law abiding citizen and was not charged in the shooting. The shooting would never have happened if his firearm had a magazine disconnect. If Florida had banned guns in churches as in several other states then the law abiding CCW would not be showing off his firearm to begin with. I realize that there is nothing you can do to stop shootings by criminals other than a better justice system with severe punishment. If you think by carrying a firearm in church you can stop criminals yourself you are delusional. I personally witnessed a church shooting when my father, the minister of a Baptist church in Mississippi, was preaching and a man walked down to the pulpit with his dog on a leash holding a gun and ordered everyone out. He then shot his dog and then himself. In Mississippi you can not CCW in church but if it was allowed I don't believe it would have stopped him or could have been much worse with someone shooting a choir member or my dad by accident.

I am all for the 2nd amendment but it refers to the right of people to own firearms. It is up to each state to regulate it. I believe anyone who carries a firearm in public should be better trained than what I have seen in my HCP class.

No offense...I'm just blunt. You have a really screwy take on things that is pretty ridiculous for a so-called 2A supporter and gun owner. You seriously believe that members of a church who are CC'ing wouldn't stop a armed nut walking down the isle towards the pastor? We have many members of our church who CC, some who even OC. I highly doubt someone walking into oue church qith a gun in hand would make it more than 20 feet after being noticed...and that's being generous.

Edited February 16, 2012 by NYCrulesU

[Guest NYCrulesU]

I believe I have finally run across a sheep in wolves clothing.

And I so dislike animal analogies lol but this one seems so darn appropriate.

[raydog1]

If you think by carrying a firearm in church you can stop criminals yourself you are delusional.

I guess we're all delusional. What's the point of carrying anywhere then? I've been to many churches and have yet to see one with any more security than Kroger, Walmart, any mall parking lot, etc. I guess nobody with a gun can stop criminals. Especially in churches, huh?

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

If you think by carrying a firearm in church you can stop criminals yourself you are delusional.

Where can I stop a criminal myself then?

Edited February 16, 2012 by ArmaDeFuego

[Guest bkelm18]

] If you think by carrying a firearm in church you can stop criminals yourself you are delusional.

Then whats the point of even carrying??? Of even owning a firearm??? You're off the charts, buddy. Your ideals are so backwards that the Brady folks would think you're crazy. I'm sorry, but your opinions disgust me. I can't even come up with coherent replies. My head just spins. I'm bowing out.

[daddyo]

I don't know about anyone else, but I think this thread is hysterical.

[True Grit]

Where can I stop a criminal myself then?

1. When you serve on a jury.

2. When a criminal breaks down your front door.

3. When you are in fear of great bodily harm and not likely to harm a bystander.

4. Call 911

I don't mean to be trite but you should respect other peoples view even if you don't agree.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

1. When you serve on a jury.

2. When a criminal breaks down your front door.

3. When you are in fear of great bodily harm and not likely to harm a bystander.

4. Call 911

I don't mean to be trite but you should respect other peoples view even if you don't agree.

So now asking a question is being disrespectful?

I'm sorry but I think now you are just trolling.

[Caster]

I don't mean to be trite but you should respect other peoples view even if you don't agree.

No one here is going to respect anything when you propose ramming rules and safety reg's on us like some god forsaken OSHA organization. I imagine you'd be all for making it a crime for crafty fellows to disable that precious magazine disconnect too huh? I keep reading your posts and trying to see your point of view but I can't see true grit, all I see is false shˆt.

[daddyo]

The CCW holder with the ND in the Florida church was a law abiding citizen and was not charged in the shooting. The shooting would never have happened if his firearm had a magazine disconnect. If Florida had banned guns in churches as in several other states then the law abiding CCW would not be showing off his firearm to begin with. I realize that there is nothing you can do to stop shootings by criminals other than a better justice system with severe punishment. If you think by carrying a firearm in church you can stop criminals yourself you are delusional. I personally witnessed a church shooting when my father, the minister of a Baptist church in Mississippi, was preaching and a man walked down to the pulpit with his dog on a leash holding a gun and ordered everyone out. He then shot his dog and then himself. In Mississippi you can not CCW in church but if it was allowed I don't believe it would have stopped him or could have been much worse with someone shooting a choir member or my dad by accident.

I am all for the 2nd amendment but it refers to the right of people to own firearms. It is up to each state to regulate it. I believe anyone who carries a firearm in public should be better trained than what I have seen in my HCP class.

You've given me nothing but conjecture and opinion. Logic is missing from your argument.

Accidentally shooting another person when your life is not threatened is already illegal, but the moron in FL did it anyway. What if it was a revolver? No magazine. Stupid people are going to do stupid things, law or no law. Looks like your assertion that laws keep people safe is wrong.

And you're going to make the huge leap that someone trying to take down a murderer in a church will shoot an innocent bystander? Really? Let's say you're right, and the same situation presents itself in a restaurant, or a movie theater, or the grocery store. There are lots of people in those places too. Should we restrict carry ANYWHERE there are innocent people because one of them might be shot by a law-abiding citizen trying to protect himself?

Just for the record, I'm not one of those with a hero complex. I carry for my protection and that of my family and loved ones, and no one else. If you and I are in the same building, and on opposite ends, and some madman comes in with evil intent, then, brother, you're on your own.

Edited February 16, 2012 by DaddyO