CCW in church with ND

[Guest bkelm18]

Two quotes come to mind about your Brady mentality Mr. Grit:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

--Martin Niemöller

Your mentality of "I don't care since it doesn't apply to me" is exactly the opening "Big Brother" looks for. All they need is a foothold. It becomes a dangerous slope after that.

And of course:

"A government big enough to give you everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...." --Various

I find your screen name rather ironic, since it refers to a movie in which the main character is said to have the grit necessary to go anywhere and do anything to get things done, to do what is right. You on the other hand, do not have the grit to stand up for our rights as human beings, the right to preserve our life in the face of harm. It's a shame. Some day you'll realize that Big Brother can't protect you, and you'll have no one to blame but yourself.

Edited February 14, 2012 by bkelm18

[daddyo]

You ARE a Brady nut. Glad you could find a gun that fits all your criteria. Does it have the instructions stamped on the side as well?

Yes, it says "Do not point at self when firing".

[Sandman]

Reading this entire thread I agreed with True Grit about the better carry class. Then I got to the post about all that other stuff and will have to disagree. I think the class should be more involved. When I took my class, there was a woman there who was at least 80. I'm glad she sees the need for a permit, but I'm honestly surprised she didn't shoot someone. She was waving her .22 all over the place. When she would ask a question, she would turn and bring the gun toward the entire class. She continued that even after many warnings. She passed and I'm sure has her permit now. I think she should have had a little more one on one. I think it's scary sometimes who passes the class, but it's the instructors discretion and I don't question their judgement.

With the other stuff True Grit has said, I wholeheartedly disagree. No guns in church is stupid. The church I attend has a security patrol b/c let's face it. People get shot in church (I.E. the guy in Knoxville who came in with a shotgun and started shooting). I think we need to maintain our current rights and fight for more. I will say though I think the average permit holder does need more training though.

[Guest bkelm18]

Reading this entire thread I agreed with True Grit about the better carry class. Then I got to the post about all that other stuff and will have to disagree. I think the class should be more involved. When I took my class, there was a woman there who was at least 80. I'm glad she sees the need for a permit, but I'm honestly surprised she didn't shoot someone. She was waving her .22 all over the place. When she would ask a question, she would turn and bring the gun toward the entire class. She continued that even after many warnings. She passed and I'm sure has her permit now. I think she should have had a little more one on one. I think it's scary sometimes who passes the class, but it's the instructors discretion and I don't question their judgement.

With the other stuff True Grit has said, I wholeheartedly disagree. No guns in church is stupid. The church I attend has a security patrol b/c let's face it. People get shot in church (I.E. the guy in Knoxville who came in with a shotgun and started shooting). I think we need to maintain our current rights and fight for more. I will say though I think the average permit holder does need more training though.

I'll agree and say the average permit holder needs more voluntary training. I would hope that someone who makes the decision to carry a firearm would realize that no amount of training is enough and that you'll always learn something new, but I don't think that the mandatory training should be strengthened. It's enough of a waste of time and money as it is.

[mikegideon]

A gun is a dangerous weapon. A car is a VERY dangerous weapon. Legislation is also dangerous. None require adequate training. All three are dangerous because of idiots IMHO.

[Lumber_Jack]

Brady nut by your own admission. This is how they get in man, they get "greater good" ideas in your head. Once they're in, you can't get them out.

You don't see a NEED for high capacity so you would set yourself against it? You would probably support national Id's and a national gun owners license too yeah? I wipe crap like this off my shoes before I go in at night. No guns in bars???? That's the same filthy hippy rhetoric the Brady camp spews everyday. Like some permit holder is going to belly up to the bar and get hammered like the old west. Churches are private and as long as the CHURCH [not you or any law making body] says it's cool, it's just like any business that welcomes permits or forbids it with proper posting. How are you going to get a stronger background check??? Go back to waiting periods?? AND gun show loop holes huh? There IS NO GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!! When will you people get that in you thick head. It's no different at a gunshow than in your own living room. If two law abiding citizens with no priors want to sell/buy a gun to/from one another, it is perfectly legal. SO, that would mean you want to do away with private sales? Well, I'm one who's willing to fight about that.

Good Day True Grit, do some soul searching, your priorities are misaligned.

Caster, if I had the a ability to "like" a post, #47 would have got one from me.

[Caster]

Caster, if I had the a ability to "like" a post, #47 would have got one from me.

You can, you can click the green up button at the lower right of the post to like it, the red down to NOT like it

Thanks Jack.

[guyandarifle]

There are plenty of examples of laws and regulations saving lives. Just look at the statistics for fatalities because manufactures placed airbags in cars, seat belt use and lowering the speed limit. Just because we are taking about making gun carrying safer everyone screams 2nd amendment rights. We will lose this right if we can't prevent innocent lose of life. I support stronger background checks, closing the gun show loophole, stricter CCW requirements, no guns in bars and churches, stiffer penalties for carrying firearms without a permit and safer guns that have lower capacity magazines, magazine disconnects and manual safeties. I see no need for high capacity for SD.

I am not anti gun or a Brady nut. I carry a revolver every day.

The boldened above is the only one that really carries much water IMO. Specifically for some others:

What specifically do you mean by "stronger" BGC? What exactly are you advocating?

WHAT "gun show loophole"? If you are advocating all firearm transactions must go through a tracked FFL so be it but the idea of a (current) GSL is entirely erroneous.

[bullitt3989]

The problem is how many people carry safely every day. No one says in todays news 3000 people safely carried a handgun today and no one was hurt. If we taylor everything for the minority the majority gets persecuted.

[Guest nicemac]

The boldened above is the only one that really carries much water IMO. Specifically for some others:

I question needing a permit in the first place. The Second Amendment does not state that you have a right to keep and bear arms if you have a permit…

[guyandarifle]

I question needing a permit in the first place. The Second Amendment does not state that you have a right to keep and bear arms if you have a permit…

True, but that's a state thing. I'm pretty sure there's at least a handfull of states that have "Constitutional Carry" as it's sometimes referred. (Sometimes called "Vermont Carry" as that's where it was first adopted unless I'm sorely mistaken)

[True Grit]

I find your screen name rather ironic, since it refers to a movie in which the main character is said to have the grit necessary to go anywhere and do anything to get things done, to do what is right. You on the other hand, do not have the grit to stand up for our rights as human beings, the right to preserve our life in the face of harm. It's a shame. Some day you'll realize that Big Brother can't protect you, and you'll have no one to blame but yourself.

1. True grit refers to the character Mattie who left her ranch and shot her fathers killer under great duress not Roster Cogburn who was a washed up drunkard who's only heroic act was to ride all night carrying the girl to save her life. Mattie was also stubburn, opinionated and did not care what you think.

2. Have you gone to a gun show and talked to the folks waving their guns around and sell to anyone, no questions asked? Any convicted fellon rapist or mentally defective can buy a gun there if they had cash but yet if I go to a gun shop I have to pay so much more, Tax Tic,s and their markup.

3. Lots of states have no guns in bars and churches. This would not be necessary if you had a real background check, real training reqirements for CCW and a ferderal license to buy and sell firearms.

4. I am standing up for the rights of responsible gun owners because we will surely lose this right if CCW holders continue to proliferate that are shooting innocent people in church.

[Guest nicemac]

1. True grit refers to the character Mattie who left her ranch and shot her fathers killer under great duress not Roster Cogburn who was a washed up drunkard who's only heroic act was to ride all night carrying the girl to save her life. Mattie was also stubburn, opinionated and did not care what you think.

2. Have you gone to a gun show and talked to the folks waving their guns around and sell to anyone, no questions asked? Any convicted fellon rapist or mentally defective can buy a gun there if they had cash but yet if I go to a gun shop I have to pay so much more, Tax Tic,s and their markup.

3. Lots of states have no guns in bars and churches. This would not be necessary if you had a real background check, real training reqirements for CCW and a ferderal license to buy and sell firearms.

4. I am standing up for the rights of responsible gun owners because we will surely lose this right if CCW holders continue to proliferate that are shooting innocent people in church.

I will only address one: what is the logic behind "no guns in churches?"

[Caster]

4. I am standing up for the rights of responsible gun owners because we will surely lose this right if CCW holders continue to proliferate that are shooting innocent people in church.

...and we will lose them as well with people like you letting them in the back door with MORE legislation.

[raydog1]

There are plenty of examples of laws and regulations saving lives. Just look at the statistics for fatalities because manufactures placed airbags in cars, seat belt use and lowering the speed limit. Just because we are taking about making gun carrying safer everyone screams 2nd amendment rights. We will lose this right if we can't prevent innocent lose of life. I support stronger background checks, closing the gun show loophole, stricter CCW requirements, no guns in bars and churches, stiffer penalties for carrying firearms without a permit and safer guns that have lower capacity magazines, magazine disconnects and manual safeties. I see no need for high capacity for SD.

I am not anti gun or a Brady nut. I carry a revolver every day.

And had he:

1. Passed a more stringent permit exam

2. Decided to show off his gun in a packed Walmart parking lot instead of a church

3. Defeated the magazine safety by inserting an empty magazine (5 round mag just for you) and. . .

4. STILL forgot a round was chambered and pulled the trigger

would your response be "Oh well, he met all my critieria and this is an isolated incident." or "We need another law."

How do you think the Brady Campaign would respond?

[guyandarifle]

1. True grit refers to the character Mattie who left her ranch and shot her fathers killer under great duress not Roster Cogburn who was a washed up drunkard who's only heroic act was to ride all night carrying the girl to save her life. Mattie was also stubburn, opinionated and did not care what you think.

2. Have you gone to a gun show and talked to the folks waving their guns around and sell to anyone, no questions asked? Any convicted fellon rapist or mentally defective can buy a gun there if they had cash but yet if I go to a gun shop I have to pay so much more, Tax Tic,s and their markup.

Again, there is nothing in what you've just typed that describes a "loophole". There are adds for guns for sale in the local newspaper as well as FTF right here in this site's classifieds. If you can't cite a legal loophole then please refrain from using incorrect phrases.

3. Lots of states have no guns in bars and churches. This would not be necessary if you had a real background check, real training reqirements for CCW and a ferderal license to buy and sell firearms.

There are also states where one can not only carry in a bar but DRINK in a bar while doing so. And yet, the streets don't run red with blood. Oh, and as pointed out earlier, there are states with NO permit required to carry at all.

4. I am standing up for the rights of responsible gun owners because we will surely lose this right if CCW holders continue to proliferate that are shooting innocent people in church.

Any responsible gun owner should HATE hearing about something getting sideways with permit holders (or gun owners in general for that matter) but you seem terribly myopic on how those that would try to put the screws to ALL of us work. This is to say, have us concede, incrementally, ground we already have that's veiled as "for the greater good".

There is no true defense against stupid. We are forced to live with it in some individuals everywhere every day. Don't give ground on their account.

Edited February 14, 2012 by guyandarifle

[daddyo]

1. True grit refers to the character Mattie who left her ranch and shot her fathers killer under great duress not Roster Cogburn who was a washed up drunkard who's only heroic act was to ride all night carrying the girl to save her life. Mattie was also stubburn, opinionated and did not care what you think.

2. Have you gone to a gun show and talked to the folks waving their guns around and sell to anyone, no questions asked? Any convicted fellon rapist or mentally defective can buy a gun there if they had cash but yet if I go to a gun shop I have to pay so much more, Tax Tic,s and their markup.

3. Lots of states have no guns in bars and churches. This would not be necessary if you had a real background check, real training reqirements for CCW and a ferderal license to buy and sell firearms.

4. I am standing up for the rights of responsible gun owners because we will surely lose this right if CCW holders continue to proliferate that are shooting innocent people in church.

HOW MANY innocent people have been injured or died at the hands of citizens who carry legally in states that allow them to carry in places that serve alcohol or churches?

You're preaching to the wrong crowd.

Edited February 14, 2012 by DaddyO

[bullitt3989]

I think more laws that include more safety features just make the dumb dumber. I can see it know new gun owner, new gun, pull it out of the box use the dna decoder to unlock the slide lock hole cover that locks the firing pin retainer lock that holds the trigger forward so the gun cant fire. New gun owner then shoots wife because he is demontrating the safety features that keep his gun from firing by relying on safety features instead of common sense.

[bullitt3989]

In the business im in I have seen several wrecks caused by people texting and driving. I know that it is illegal to text and drive but it still happens. It happens not because the cell phone, the inanimate object is dangerous but because the idiot using it. Phones dont cause wrecks, guns dont kill people, cars dont cause dui's.

[Guest RevScottie]

I will have to agree that I have seen a lot of people who need more/better training. The TN HCP class that I attended was little more than a joke/technicality that one had to pass in order to get a permit. Very little about firearms safety on the range or in the classroom. The bulk of the time in class was spent watching an outdated video and talking about when it was legal to shoot. It is much like mandatory testing in public schools...the purpose isn't to educate it is to make sure you can pass the test. It's kind of like no child left behind but in this case those lagging behind tend to accidentally shoot someone.

Evidently True Grit attends some sort of utopian church where bad people never darken the door. If he attended a church that is truly reaching out to society he would realize that pastors and some members of the congregation are involved in the lives of some seriously messed up people. Domestic violence situations are just one of the potentially volatile situations that pastors and their congregations deal with. Why in the world should they have to leave their weapon at home just because they are in church?

[Guest bkelm18]

Why in the world should they have to leave their weapon at home just because they are in church?

Because in his backwards buffoon utopia, honest people don't deserve to protect themselves.

[eapking]

how do you not know there is a bullet in the chamber?!?!?!?! you have to rack the slide back or push the slide release?!?!?!?!?! People like this have no reason to be carrying. they put everyone's life in danger and give those of us who carry properly a bad name.

+1 - ya can't fix stupid, and that's what this guy was.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

There are plenty of examples of laws and regulations saving lives. Just look at the statistics for fatalities because manufactures placed airbags in cars, seat belt use and lowering the speed limit. Just because we are taking about making gun carrying safer everyone screams 2nd amendment rights. We will lose this right if we can't prevent innocent lose of life. I support stronger background checks, closing the gun show loophole, stricter CCW requirements, no guns in bars and churches, stiffer penalties for carrying firearms without a permit and safer guns that have lower capacity magazines, magazine disconnects and manual safeties. I see no need for high capacity for SD.

I am not anti gun or a Brady nut. I carry a revolver every day.

Wow I dont even know where to begin.

How about you start by explaining to us how any one of those items you listed would help? Criminals will ALWAYS be able to get a gun if they want one. Stronger background checks & closing the gunshow "loophole" wont change that.

Whats outlawing guns in bars & churches going to solve? Guns are already not allowed in schools & we know there have NEVER been any school shootings...... Its already against the law to drink while carrying a weapon.....

I dont understand your ideas.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ArmaDeFuego

[MudBugjr]

Man after reading all this thread all I can say is WOW! Maybe you should pass a background check before you buy that 6pack of Bud, or put trainig wheels and a seatbelt on motorcycles. Why not! I pride myself on being safe . At what point do you want the gov to stop when I'm locked in a padded room to be safe.. There are plenty of other countries you can move to Trugrit that will keep you safe!

[robbiev]

Must have been a high cap Glock revolver again. I can't believe those things are still legal.

I have a high cap Glock revolver. Shhhh...don't tell anyone. I also have a Glock 7 that I use when I need to carry in the airport. Please keep that a secret also.