TNCarry.org

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

Have you read any of the above posts? I think I stated pretty clearly what some of their successes have been.

Well call me stupid, but I've yet to read anything in this thread that was clearly stated as a TFA success. Could you possibly elaborate or show me the post I missed?

[Warbird]

Well call me stupid, but I've yet to read anything in this thread that was clearly stated as a TFA success. Could you possibly elaborate or show me the post I missed?

I believe I said the TFA and John Harris were instrumental in passing the carry legislation and the reform of the legislation 3 years later because the legislature mucked it up on the floor the first time. John Harris wrote much of the legislation that is code today.

The NRA, TFA, Harold Stockburger and Jim Holcomb along with a couple of more people took the bull by the horns and made it happen when everyone said it wo0uldn't. They ran all the same ads back then about the wild west and such.

So, if you enjoy your right to carry today, one of the main people you can thank is John Harris. If you enjoy the fact that the carry rights were taken out of the hands of local sheriff's departments, you can thank John Harris and a couple more people who I could mention, but I won't.

You can either like TFA and John Harris or not, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference to me. There are things they do that I like and things I don't. But I won't allow anyone who knows nothing of the history of this issue in this state to make the people who made it happen irrelevant.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

You know what, with a representative like yourself, I highly doubt that I'll get involved with TFA. I asked a question and got a remark like "You can either like the TFA and John Harris or not, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference to me". Since I'd never heard of TFA, nor John Harris, I thought I might check further into it and ask about the accomplishments of TFA. But your promotional tactics leave much to be desired. Good luck to ya.

[Warbird]

You know what, with a representative like yourself, I highly doubt that I'll get involved with TFA. I asked a question and got a remark like "You can either like the TFA and John Harris or not, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference to me". Since I'd never heard of TFA, nor John Harris, I thought I might check further into it and ask about the accomplishments of TFA. But your promotional tactics leave much to be desired. Good luck to ya.

First, as I said, I have absolutely no connection with John Harris and TFA other than I know John and I know the history behind the issue. I am not paid by TFA and have zero official capacity of any kind at all with that organization. Nor have I ever had any official capacity with TFA. I can see where you would have thought that to be true, however it is not. I simply want the facts to be known.

Second., my comment as to people being members was not directed at you , but to several others who stated that John Harris and the TFA were irrelevant because they hadn't heard of him before, They also made false statements. My comment was not directed at you, I am sorry you thought so. I should have separated the comments into different posts.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Warbird

[Marswolf]

I heard Jim Holcomb on radio the other day. He's a local boy and I've known him for years. He was talking about the carry permit stuff. He talked about the fight for the permit laws and how it took continued hammering away at the subject to het the public involved and the legislation passed. He mentioned the NRA's part in that. Somehow Harris and the TFA didn't come up.

The Harold Stockburger story has been told here at http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=76743&highlight=Harold+Stockburger#post76743

I think for some of us, it comes down to "hat have you done for us - lately."

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

ive lived in TN for just about my hole life and and ive carried for over 10 years and i have to say ive never heard of John Harris or TFA am i missing something

[FlyboyLDB]

.......And let's get one thing clear, TFA is a ©4 lobbying organization, not a website, Their purpose is not to run BB's or to have moderators on their site and such. Their job is to be on the hill. I will admit that TFA has not done the job they needed to get more involved, they should have spent more money attracting new members and getting funds for elections than they have.........

Without the constituents of the respective politicians you are lobbying it is just a voice in the wind. Get some organized luncheons going in various parts of the state and get the state reps/senators to attend. Organize large groups outside of the capitol when they are meeting.

....If you think you can be effective politically w/o money you are living in a dream world. If it could be done I would have done it a long time ago. An internet world politically has very very tight constraints and limitations to its effectiveness....

You are correct. People must be willing to put their money where their mouth is. But at the same time, I would not want to give to an organazition that is not organized in their campaigning efforts. No one is looking for another "Website" in Tennessee. We are looking for an organization that can effectively lobby, organize events to promote such, go after illegal gun laws at the state, county & municipality level, and communicate the plans and results in an effective manner to its members. Is that too much to ask? Yes, there will need to be some volunteers and outside support - like maybe volunteering at gun shows to rally membership.

The suggestion that NRA hasn't been effective at all is also disturbing to hear. Want to know of the NRA's effectiveness ask Handgun Control, which believes w/o the NRA they could have already succeeding where Britain and Australia to name a couple have done so. Ask Bill Clinton if you want to know of the NRA's effectiveness.

Here in Georgia the NRA stepped all over the HB the we here in GA wanted. They (NRA) would not support it - because it was not their bill. They wanted the "parking lot" bill passed regardless of what opportunity it killed in GA for us to get rid of the public gathering clause. In the end, and thanks to one of our state reps (Bearden), a lot that was in Bearden's original bill was rolled into the NRA's parking lot bill. But the NRA lost a fair amount of it's GA members. But the NRA issues are another story/topic all in itself.

[strickj]

Let me butt in here!I have not heard of TFA until TGO.And TGO has only been around for less then a year and a half.How long has TFA been around....

I have no opinion of TFA so my comment has nothing to do with what I have seen,or not seen them do,but to compare TFA with TGO is kinda silly considering the success of TGO in such a short amount of time

[Warbird]

Organized luncheons for the purpose of passing legislation is completely ineffective. You need to grow an organization through mail and membership efforts, raise money, build a database and mobilize people at the drop of a hat and number one, prove effective in elections. That is what politicians listen to. Nothing else matters. If you seem effective then they will listen to you and come out to something you may have for your members. That comes last not first.

Organizing people in groups and having meetings for the purpose of talking about gun issues is worthless. Having people come out to the capitol at key times can be very effective, if the right people come out.

Emails are utterly worthless for pressure, they are easily deleted and a politician cannot verify where they were sent from so they don't look at them as district pressure. Cards and letters are far more effective. Phone calls as well. Very effective when used at the proper time.

At a minimum you will be looking at 3 to 4 years to be at all effective. If done right, you will start to be able to be so about that time.

Unless, unless something drastic happens when the rights of citizens are in real danger, then you will a faster pace evolve.

[Warbird]

Let me butt in here!I have not heard of TFA until TGO.And TGO has only been around for less then a year and a half.How long has TFA been around....

I have no opinion of TFA so my comment has nothing to do with what I have seen,or not seen them do,but to compare TFA with TGO is kinda silly considering the success of TGO in such a short amount of time

TFA has been around since the early 90's sometime. You cannot compare the two, because one is a lobbying organization and one is a bulletin board. What success of TGO, the fact that they are a growing BB? In a bb world maybe that is a success and it's always good to see people of like minds come together. But from a political point of view they have done nothing. You are right, it's a silly comparison.

I will say TFA is not nearly effective as they could be. For that matter no one is, but they have certainly done more from a state level group than almost anyone. NRA constantly works also on being more effective as well. But, I will tell you this, there's always a contingent of people who are never satisfied with the efforts of anyone. And every group will have members who are happy with them one day and mad at them the next. It's the nature of the beast. In bad times you better hope you have established groups to help stop the bad. The NRA and TFA have battled back many attacks in TN for many years. Most of these you never hear about at all. They are also the types of battles won because of close working relationships with pro-gun legislators.

I dare say most of you have never heard of the Tennessee Center for Policy research. But their effect has been pretty great over the last number of years on policy and politicians in Tennessee.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Warbird

[Marswolf]

It used to be that emails didn't get much notice, but politicians have gotten smarter. Like a telephone call, they can pretty easily filter out messages that are not from constituents. US senators and Reps strongly recommend you use email instead of letters, since physical letters have to be considered contaminated and dangerous since 9-11.

Our representatives have learned to ignote constituent emai lat their own risk. They will generally hear about it when they get back home.

But successful pro-legislation campaigns generally require either big bucks from special interest lobbyists or lots of publicity to get the public to lobby directly. Again, the VCDL is good at that. We have no such group in Tennessee.

[molonlabetn]

There is apparently a large gap between what the people of TN want to see done, what the NRA tries to do, and the actual influence of the TFA. I don't think it has always been this way, because everything I've seen and heard indicates that the TFA was created during the birth of the carry initiative in TN as essentially the vehicle for the NRA to pick up support from TN residents, and direct it to the attention of the legislature. John Harris did have a major role in that, no doubt. In the present 'information age', more people are able to be involved with the goings on electronically... The TFA has not kept up with that, and has lost momentum.

What John Harris does as a lobbyist is important, and not insignificant... it is simply a matter of him being unable to do that job effectively without the support of TN residents, and since few of us are able to be physically present with him at any given time, the best option is an active, unified internet presence. There are always some of us here.

Why not create a TFA forum which is connected directly to an output which the legislators access directly as the issues come up, to see what their constituents have to say? Moderate it strictly to maintain a positive, constructive presentation, but a scrolling stream of support or rejection from thousands of participants for the various measures up for grabs would be difficult-if-not-impossible to ignore, if only this resource was simply tapped. And it would be far more efficient for them than sifting through piles of e-mail or letters and responding to each one.

Web postings don't equal action only because those postings don't reach the decision-makers. But they could.

[TGO David]

Speaking to the issue of a "carry" organization catering to Tennessee... if that benefits the cause in a way different than what TGO does, I am all for it.

TGO was never intended to be or become a political lobbying organization. Rather the desire was for it to be a grassroots mechanism for informing, educating and motivating the masses in respect to the issues that affect us all as sportsmen and firearms enthusiasts.

If we can motivate someone to partner with an organization like the TFA, NRA, GOA, and work through them to become politically affective, then we've done a good thing.

That said, I really don't see us (TGO) evolving into an official, active, lobbying force and honestly hope that we don't. That brings with it baggage that we presently don't carry, and the lack of which makes us much more "nimble" and proactive.

*shrug*

[Marswolf]

What John Harris does as a lobbyist is important, and not insignificant...

I must respectfully disagree with that assessment. I think he might become (again?) an important lobbyist and promoter for the cause, but I see no evidence that he is one at this point.

The TFA has a website that they can build if they choose to do so. I would be hesitant to link TGO with that group, or any other group.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

That said, I really don't see us (TGO) evolving into an official, active, lobbying force and honestly hope that we don't.

I honestly hope we don't either.

[molonlabetn]

I see no evidence of any current progress with legislation because of Mr. Harris either, but he is the NRA-ILA's counsel in TN for better or worse. I think it's fair to judge that he was involved with efforts made by the NRA on behalf of gun-owners here since the right-to-carry initiative. I have no way to judge how influential he is/was with regard to the legislators themselves because no matter how effectual the TFA could be right now, there's no way for them to overcome the Nafeih dynasty, since good bills don't even make it out of committee.

Perhaps the NRA-ILA should hire Betty Anderson as a lobbyist...

Either way, TGO should remain what it is, non-political... though we encourage our members to support the efforts of those political organizations who can make a positive difference for them. I think the TFA would be powerful if it could engage gun owners in TN with a proper way to communicate amongst themselves and with their congressmen, instead of just throwing information at them to do with what they please. Accountability is important in such an organization, and it's probably time for the TFA to improve theirs.

[Guest nraforlife]

As I said in a previous post, it seems that a lot of gun owners in TN have the 'its not my sport' mentality. As long as the proposed law doesn't have a negative impact on there particular interest be it skeet shooting, hunting, IPSC/IDPA, etc., they could care less. Apathetic gun owners are rife here in TN - and probably elsewhere - and as about as useful as teats on a boar hog. At least John Harris is out there fighting the good fight.

Go to a gun show here in TN and ask how many are NRA, GOA or TFA members.

Edited April 21, 2008 by nraforlife

[Warbird]

As I said in a previous post, it seems that a lot of gun owners in TN have the 'its not my sport' mentality. As long as the proposed law doesn't have a negative impact on there particular interest be it skeet shooting, hunting, IPSC/IDPA, etc., they could care less. Apathetic gun owners are rife here in TN - and probably elsewhere - and as about as useful as teats on a boar hog. At least John Harris is out there fighting the good fight.

Go to a gun show here in TN and ask how many are NRA, GOA or TFA members.

You have said much, much in these words. Thank you!

There are 90 million gun owners in the US, 27+ million in recent surveys said they support the efforts of the NRA and even more than that support the 2nd amendment. Yet the NRA stands at 4 million, TFA who knows how many, this board what a couple of thousand, if that? Stand up, support those who carry the banners for you, encourage your friends and relatives to stand as well. Then we will succeed.

[FlyboyLDB]

As far as TGO goes - it would be nice to see it as an outlet for TFA communicating to the TGO crowd as well as the TFA members. What bills are being introduced, bills being lobbied for on behalf of the TFA, status, etc. I strongly encourage the TFA to identify the gun friendly state reps & and state senators. Befriend them. Setup meetings/luncheons and invite TFA members and potential members. Emails might not be as effective as a hand written letter, but I say do both - and call. Everyone can't just let someone else do the work - it will never get done. We all have to contribute in some way.

If the TFA is unwilling or unable to fulfill the needs of its member base, then another is in order. I think the TGO is a wonderful site to stay informed. Tennesseans are in need of an organization with political clout. Those in TN will have to support either the TFA or a similar organization. It take dollars to lobby, bring lawsuits, put ads in papers, etc. Even though my residence (my business is in TN)is in GA, I would be willing to sign up - I just need to know that the organization I am giving my $$$ to will indeed fight hard for my desires/rights

I look at how much good that the GCO (Georgia Carry.Org) has done here in GA, I just can't help but think that a similar setup in TN would also go along way. Remember, even though the GCO has a web site, most of its communicating is via email, and its members using www.georgiapacking.org (which is similar to TGO).

I do not know enough to give an opinion on TFA. But I would think this might be the best choice given that it is already up and running, it is doing some lobbying. Maybe it just needs some more support - in financial and in physical presence, etc.

[Guest Boomhower]

It's amazing how the story of some in this thread have changed.

TGO is not, has not, nor hopefully ever will be a political machine. That's the job of the NRA, TFA, and GOA, and as I have stated before, I had not heard of the TFA before TGO. So that means that somebody inside that organization is not doing their job. TGO and TFA can not and should not be compared as other are trying to do. I have been far more motivated by my fellow BB poster's on this board, than by a lobbing organization that claims so much progress in TN....If people choose to run their business, or organization incognito and under the radar, don't cry to me when you claim the spoils of victory and I throw the BS flag.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

guys to be fair I think we should all do more. The TFA has been around for years, and has been instrumental in us getting what we have so far. You and I both owe John Harris a great deal for all he's done. But honestly it gets old fighting a fight with no help. Thats what John and the TFA have done for years.

Im all for getting everyone under the same banner and on the same page. I have made suggestions. What are the rest of you thinking might work?

[FlyboyLDB]

It's amazing how the story of some in this thread have changed.

TGO is not, has not, nor hopefully ever will be a political machine. That's the job of the NRA, TFA, and GOA, and as I have stated before, I had not heard of the TFA before TGO. So that means that somebody inside that organization is not doing their job. TGO and TFA can not and should not be compared as other are trying to do. I have been far more motivated by my fellow BB poster's on this board, than by a lobbing organization that claims so much progress in TN....If people choose to run their business, or organization incognito and under the radar, don't cry to me when you claim the spoils of victory and I throw the BS flag.

I don't think anyone is conveying that TGO is a "politcal machine". Everyone here has sense enough to realize that TFA is not TGO or vice versa. I think, as in my case, TGO has a group of informed people interested in gun carry in TN - and TGO is an outlet for that. I think if the TFA was well established, it would be known in this TGO group - again, NOT THAT TGO IS A POLITCAL LOBBYING ORGANIZATION, but rather common ground for those interested in politics that relate to firearms, news tid bits, helpful hints, etc.

I am just curious, you state that you have been far more motivated by the posters here - which is great - because we all need encouragement - how has this motivation moved you? Have you contacted your state senator/rep personally? Have you wrote an editorial in your local paper? I am not attempting to be sarcastic, but showing that we need to do more than just post here. Please don't take this as sarcasm, because that is certainly not my intent - and in print it is sometimes hard to descern.

One other point, if one thinks that in TN favorable gun laws will just magically get passed, then think again. I am not at this point advocating TFA - but TN gun owners need a strong lobbying organization and people involved in the same. I can assure you that is not the NRA.

[Warbird]

Best of luck

Edited April 22, 2008 by Warbird

[FlyboyLDB]

Best of luck

??? Best of luck in getting people involved? Best of luck in getting a reliable and motivated lobbying organization?

[FlyboyLDB]

Here is an example of an organization that works for the people. Maybe the TFA can take note. Just an example and just FYI to get people thinking. Everyone is now talking and debating what is a good idea and what is not.

Dear GCO Member,

Below is a calendar of upcoming GCO Events:

April 22, 2008 - Contact the Governor! MARTA and other groups are now actively lobbying the Governor, requesting that he VETO our bill! Please counteract their effort by asking him to sign. Write a real letter on real paper with a postage stamp, then email and call on the telephone. Ask your friends and family to do the same.

April 26-27, 2008 - Assist GCO with its Recruiting and Information Center

May 9, 2007 - Support GCO in the courtroom. GCO will be fighting the City of Atlanta and others in Fulton County that are denying your right to bear arms. Courtroom 7F of the Fulton Superior Court at 1:00 p.m., Judge Doris Downs presiding.

May 10, 2008 - GCO lunch at Red Top Mountain. GCO will be presenting its Representative and Senator of the Year awards!

www.GeorgiaCarry.Org