TNCarry.org

[Warbird]

Getting in touch with your Rep is a really good idea. While again I hate to say this, getting in touch with Harris seems an exercise in pointlessness. Legislators just don;t seem to even know who he is. That's pretty just damn useless. He is the "voice" and "presence" of the TFA but legislators say they have never heard of him.

Fooled me once ?

Who said that? Whoever it was, was either brand new or a liar. I don't know anyone on capitol hill who doesn't know John Harris. Certainly

anyone who supports 2nd amendment rights on the hill knows him well. He has had an impact and a major one historically on the gun issues over the last 15 or more years.

I will also say if you don't know what is going on at the state legislature, then that's your fault. TFA does constant email alerts on goings on and the status of bills, The NRA has numerous times this year had Tennessee news on firearms legislation.

Lastly, if you think for an organization to be worthwhile, a bunch of folks need to get together every month to be effective, then you are simply wrong. What is needed is mobilization efforts, both targeted and statewide and a strong organizational structure which is able to function because people take a financial interest and decide to tithe a worthy cause. I will say TFA has fallen down on the mobilization efforts, but much has to do with th fact that despite comments of money to an attorney, they don't operate on much of a budget and most goes to operating the email alerts and such.

Organizations that 'get folks together' to discuss whats going on all over the state get just one thing accomplished, nothing. I figured that out a long long time ago.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Warbird

[Guest mikedwood]

I think it's a good idea Gutterboy, you could atleast have all kinds of info like how to get a permit, state agency web addy, phone numbers and such. Also the map showing what states you can carry in and what those laws might be.

Yes all the info is out there but it's not that easy to find in one place.

Just a thought.

[ZenDog]

I think TNCarry.org is a good idea. It is a good idea as an adjunct political forum for TGO members who want to organize to do more in the political arena. If TGO members really view TFA as impotent or not representing them, another parallel organization makes sense.

TGO should remain apolitical-- but another group TNCarry.org that tries to get things done could be helpful, perhaps even actually effective.

I am involved a bit with local government regarding creating better conditions for bicyclists in Memphis. We split the organization in a similar fashion. We have the apolitical club, and then we have a bicycling advocacy group that does not fall under the club's purview or control. Keeps it cleaner that way.

[Marswolf]

Who said that? Whoever it was, was either brand new or a liar.

They are neither brand new or a liar. They also have political connections - as do I. And I confirmed it with a couple of my local state politicians that you HAVE heard about.

You need to check your facts before making accusations.

[Tim Nunan]

Who said that? Whoever it was, was either brand new or a liar. I don't know anyone on capitol hill who doesn't know John Harris. Certainly

anyone who supports 2nd amendment rights on the hill knows him well. He has had an impact and a major one historically on the gun issues over the last 15 or more years.

I will also say if you don't know what is going on at the state legislature, then that's your fault. TFA does constant email alerts on goings on and the status of bills, The NRA has numerous times this year had Tennessee news on firearms legislation.

Lastly, if you think for an organization to be worthwhile, a bunch of folks need to get together every month to be effective, then you are simply wrong. What is needed is mobilization efforts, both targeted and statewide and a strong organizational structure which is able to function because people take a financial interest and decide to tithe a worthy cause. I will say TFA has fallen down on the mobilization efforts, but much has to do with th fact that despite comments of money to an attorney, they don't operate on much of a budget and most goes to operating the email alerts and such.

Organizations that 'get folks together' to discuss whats going on all over the state get just one thing accomplished, nothing. I figured that out a long long time ago.

Well said Warbird. Some here apparently have a personal dislike for Mr. Harris and extend that to the TFA. TFA is known by most legislators in Nashville... certainly more than know of the TGO.

As for less activity on the TFA forums apparently those members aren't concerned with just racking up the number of posts made by sending out "me too" or "I voted in that poll".

Complaints about a small attendance at chapter meetings makes one wonder how many here have even tried to go to one of the meetings. All the chapters ask what subject the members want to hear yet few suggestions are given to those chapter leaders.

The purpose of the TFA is to get gun owners and 2nd Amendment supporters to get involved with their legislators. We have an real person that follows up face to face with those legislators on firearms issues. Like any organization it can only be affective if the members get involved and take action.

The continuous sniping about the TFA "not doing anything" gets old when it is the only state gun group that has a proven record of getting gun friendly laws passed, or blocked laws that hurt us. Do we get everything we want? Of course not but at least we're still active and working hard in Nashville; the lack of forum activity notwithstanding.

We can only hope that firearms owners will be as active contacting their elected officials as often as they post comments to all the forums to which they belong.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Tim Nunan
corrected grammer

[Marswolf]

Well said Warbird. Some here apparently have a personal dislike for Mr. Harris and extend that to the TFA. TFA is known by most legislators in Nashville... certainly more than know of the TGO.

TGO is not a paid lobbying group. TFA is supposed...to be one.

TFA and Harris are barely known to the political leaders in Nashville. It is simply ineffective. Quit hiding your head in the sand?

Tim, you do a good job. I have no problem with you. Harris OTOH is a dip.

[TennFire]

TGO is not a paid lobbying group. TFA is supposed...to be one.

TFA and Harris are barely known to the political leaders in Nashville. It is simply ineffective. Quit hiding your head in the sand?

Tim, you do a good job. I have no problem with you. Harris OTOH is a dip.

Marswolf,

I really don't know what if anything I ever did to irritate you but apparently there is something because you seem to really enjoy complaining about me and TFA. From your posts, it seems that one problem you have with TFA is that it has not spent membership money to host an annual convention. The TFA members I have talked with like the idea of having one but not the cost to them or to the organization. Just not necessary given the organizations historical and prospective efforts.

We have been here for 14, almost 15, years now and we are still growing notwithstanding your complaints. Just printed 144 memberships for March.

Actually, you can complain all you want because, as far as I am concerned, its just sour grapes. I don't know why but what I do know is I do not believe I have ever seen you working the legislature although I have seen several TFA members there. TFA really does not need or want someone who is looking for an organization to do it "for them." If that is what you want, rely on the NRA. TFA is and always has been grassroots and that generally means encouraging the members to be involved and sharing information.

Finally, please get your facts straight. TFA is NOT a "paid" lobbying organization nor has it ever paid compensation to its lobbyist. It does pay registration fees but membership money is not used to compensate me one cent for my time or effort. To the contrary, it costs me money year in and year out to be affiliated with TFA and to work on firearms issues in TN. That is what grassroots is about - not what the organization can do for the individual but what the individual can do for the issue. Those people who do and have done things for TFA have done so at personal expense not for profit or even personal "at-a-boys."

You claim TFA has no presence and has accomplished nothing. All that tells me is that there exists ignorance of the public facts and that the efforts of TFA which are not intended for public exhibition have been achieved. TFA does have working relationships with key legislations because there is no need to have working relationships with all 132. Can you tell me who the key legislators are? I hope so.

If TFA is not what you want in a state organization, that is not my problem or concern. We realize that its not our task to cater to ever personal taste out there.

[Marswolf]

TennFire, it's not what you do, but what you don't do,.

From what my legislators tell me, you don't do much.

It does seem odd that you only show up here on TGO when it might affect your bottom line. Yes we all know...you don't make much - but then again, it seems to me that you don't do much.

Where were you in all of the dozens of legislative topics discussing legislation before this? You only show up to weakly defend yourself.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Marswolf

[Guest nraforlife]

All,

Not to start a war...

I lived in Naifehville, oops Nashville, for many years and had the pleasure of meeting John numerous times. I've seen him bust his ass to try to get your elected whores, and I do mean yours as I don't claim em, to pass good sensible gun laws and kill the bad ones. The problem then, as is now, is that way to many gun owners like to bitch and moan about what gun laws are or are not being passed but THATS ALL THEY DO! The attitude among to many is that if it doesn't effect what I want to do, example shoot skeet, hunt, IPSC or own a gun, etc., than I don't really care. There are 190,000 permit holders in TN, how many belong to and or contribute to the NRA, GOA, TFA? Apathetic gun owners are like nipples on a boar hog in that they are both useless. I am sure that John would appreciate those living around Nashville to volunteer their time to help canvas legislators and let them know that it isn't John alone fighting the good fight.

End of my rant.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

All,

Not to start a war...

I lived in Naifehville, oops Nashville, for many years and had the pleasure of meeting John numerous times. I've seen him bust his ass to try to get your elected whores, and I do mean yours as I don't claim em, to pass good sensible gun laws and kill the bad ones. The problem then, as is now, is that way to many gun owners like to bitch and moan about what gun laws are or are not being passed but THATS ALL THEY DO! The attitude among to many is that if it doesn't effect what I want to do, example shoot skeet, hunt, IPSC or own a gun, etc., than I don't really care. There are 190,000 permit holders in TN, how many belong to and or contribute to the NRA, GOA, TFA? Apathetic gun owners are like nipples on a boar hog in that they are both useless. I am sure that John would appreciate those living around Nashville to volunteer their time to help canvas legislators and let them know that it isn't John alone fighting the good fight.

End of my rant.

Great assessment I too have seen John bust his hump... for years now. And honestly, it seems like its useless fight as long as NaifNazi is in power. But we all keep on trying.... And honestly, most of the legislatures wont be seeing any of us until you get a bill to the floor of the house for a vote.... how many years has it been since we got that done???

Until all the gun owners get on the same page its going to be an uphill battle.

I say we use NaifNazi's logic against him and get that 190,000 HCP holder list from Safety and get some mailers out to those people... let them know we are trying to get some things done and encourage them to lean on their legislators to help. Let the NRA fit the bill for it... they get enough of our money.

Anyway... just my humble opinion.

[Guest Boomhower]

I would just like to say (as an unbiased opinion), I had never heard of the TFA until I came to TGO. I have heard of the NRA lobbyist all of my life. Where was TFA during this past session. Is everyone afraid of a little face time on TV. News channels are only going to listen to organizations such as the NRA, and possibly the TFA if there were some kind of action put forth. It made me sick everytime the news came on about "guns in bars". Where were the grassroots efforts then?

I say we use NaifNazi's logic against him and get that 190,000 HCP holder list from Safety and get some mailers out to those people... let them know we are trying to get some things done and encourage them to lean on their legislators to help. Let the NRA fit the bill for it... they get enough of our money.

I like this idea a lot. This would be a great way to get things started, but I can tell you now that if a letter is sent out just asking for money and for people to join an organization, it will be trashed by majority of the people. I think this definitely needs to be backed by an organization, but the letter needs to be jamb packed with information, statics, local organizations, websites, etc. I don't know, maybe I'm just spuing at the mouth here.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Yea, screw getting money.... I have paid my dues to the NRA for more then 20 years... time to get something back here in TN for that investment.

Tell the HCP holders the truth.... that we need phone calls, letters and votes...NO MONEY!!!!

[Marswolf]

Getting back to things that can be done, I still think the only way to get rid of Jimmy Naifeh is to find a Democrat who is not anti-gun and can get the support of 4 or more other Democrats plus all of the Republicans.

Meantime I plan to just continue to "bitch and moan", like nipples on a boar hog, to my representatives to press them for ways to fix this. I hope my next "bitch and moan" session can be with Nathan Vaughn of Kingsport. Vaughn happens to be a Democrat and had his bill to give veterans with psychological problems back their gun rights after, I think it was, seven years. Naifeh made a point of personally showing up for the committee vote that killed the measure. I think you will find Democrats in the house who don't like Naifeh either.

For right now, I think this is the most feasible way to get rid of Naifeh as Speaker. It seems to me that this is something all pro-gun groups and individuals can work on in the next few months - if they will.

[highshot]

I never heard of the TFA until I seen it as someones avatar.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

I also learned of TFA from someone here. Perused their website several times but I wasn't very impressed.

[Tim Nunan]

TennFire, it's not what you do, but what you don't do,.

From what my legislators tell me, you don't do much.

It does seem odd that you only show up here on TGO when it might affect your bottom line. Yes we all know...you don't make much - but then again, it seems to me that you don't do much.

Where were you in all of the dozens of legislative topics discussing legislation before this? You only show up to weakly defend yourself.

Rather than spending hours posting to these forums I believe Mr. Harris was contacting the legislators that might actually help us. Without the support of gunowners no one, repeat no one, is going to be effective not even the NRA.

You don't have to join the TFA to be kept in the loop; just go to the web site and sign up for the TFALAC Alerts. That way you'll know what is happening in the Assembly and when it is time to again contact your legislator.

[Guest Boomhower]

You don't have to join the TFA to be kept in the loop;

But why doesn't anyone work to grow TFA??? I think you have proof enough here that that isn't happening. Gun owning, permit holding folks that have never heard of TFA before TGO. You very well may have a few good men, but I'd say that's about the sum of it.

[Warbird]

They are neither brand new or a liar. They also have political connections - as do I. And I confirmed it with a couple of my local state politicians that you HAVE heard about.

You need to check your facts before making accusations.

I don't need to check my facts, I know them. Where were you when we passed carry in TN? You don't have to like the TFA but every time you carry your weapon on your person in public it is because of John Haris, TFA, NRA and several others who made it happen.

And I know for fact that John is still looked at for advice and information everytime a pro-gun legislator wants to push or block any firearm legislation on the hill. I know that for fact.

Purely absurd to call him irrelevant.

I don't know who your connections are, but I do who mine are. I ask again where were you and what have you done?

Edited April 20, 2008 by Warbird

[Guest mikedwood]

Tell the HCP holders the truth.... that we need phone calls, letters and votes...NO MONEY!!!!

You sir are a genius. I would get on that train. Don't just give money and feel better. Spend a few minutes and actually get involved. It's revolutionary.

I get sick of everyone organization just wanting money and not giving one bit of concern to any opinion I may or may not have. At different times I have joined the RNC and DNC and ALL they want is MONEY.

I'm not referring to TGO or NRA in the above, I have actually never heard of them. I'll check it out.

I'll probably actually give TGO some money cause I like the board a lot and feel it is worth it.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

the thing is lots of others feel the same way.... they have given so much to the NRA... with very little to show for it... tell them all what to do, and who knows... mabe they will do it!

[Guest dotsun]

I went looking for TN gun owner forums last spring when I applied for my HCP. I actually found TFA first. I thought awesome, this is what I'm looking for. I had to register to post, so I signed up and waited for the confirmation email indicating that my account had been activated. It never came. I thought the place must be dead.

[Marswolf]

I'm not big on donations to groups either. Grassroots is more effective - if you can actually get people off of their butts and doing things.

But I don't know that money donated to NRA hasn't done anything. It helped a few years ago in getting Democrats nervous about voting anti-2A because a number of them were defeated. I think the NRA deserves some credit for that.

[FlyboyLDB]

Who is promoting TFA? How many here are members in TFA? Does the TFA organize gatherings/events for the member base? I don't recall seeing them at any gun shows soliciting members. I am just curious as to how organized the TFA is and how effective it is in lobbying for gun rights. Several here, including me, was unaware of TFA.

[Warbird]

Who is promoting TFA? How many here are members in TFA? Does the TFA organize gatherings/events for the member base? I don't recall seeing them at any gun shows soliciting members. I am just curious as to how organized the TFA is and how effective it is in lobbying for gun rights. Several here, including me, was unaware of TFA.

Have you read any of the above posts? I think I stated pretty clearly what some of their successes have been.

As to how many members they have, I have no idea. As to gun shows and such, I know I saw them a month ago at a gun show I attended. The reason why someone may have heard or not heard of a particular organization, I can only guess it is because of where they go and who they know as to how they are introduced. I do know John Harris is a regular on several talk shows. I know that I know many more people who know of TFA than know of this site. I know that I only know of this site because I have a friend who was a member here. I have never heard it discussed my anyone who I know if the gun world and I know a whole whole lot of them and have been around it a long long time.

And let's get one thing clear, TFA is a ©4 lobbying organization, not a website, Their purpose is not to run BB's or to have moderators on their site and such. Their job is to be on the hill. I will admit that TFA has not done the job they needed to get more involved, they should have spent more money attracting new members and getting funds for elections than they have.

If you think you can be effective politically w/o money you are living in a dream world. If it could be done I would have done it a long time ago. An internet world politically has very very tight constraints and limitations to its effectiveness.

The suggestion that NRA hasn't been effective at all is also disturbing to hear. Want to know of the NRA's effectiveness ask Handgun Control, which believes w/o the NRA they could have already succeeding where Britain and Australia to name a couple have done so. Ask Bill Clinton if you want to know of the NRA's effectiveness.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Warbird

[dariks]

I went looking for TN gun owner forums last spring when I applied for my HCP. I actually found TFA first. I thought awesome, this is what I'm looking for. I had to register to post, so I signed up and waited for the confirmation email indicating that my account had been activated. It never came. I thought the place must be dead.

That's exactly what happened to me. I thought the site was no longer being maintained or updated.