9mm vs 45

[Guest tcampbell]

I have a 9mm and a 45 acp. Sometimes I carry the 9mm, sometimes I carry the 45. Everytime I carry the 9mm, a buddy of mine says "why bother...it won't do anything but p**s'em off". This is really starting to agitate me. I firmly believe that a well placed shot from either is going to cause damage. I know that the 45 has more knock down power, but I also feel that the 9mm is sufficient for self defense. Some police carry 9mm, if it is good enough for them, then it is good enough for me, at least that is what I think. Both are spingfield armory, only because that is what I like and what I am comfortable with. Even when I took my class for handgun 2 from PRI this past weekend, the instructors were using 9mm. So, my question is, what do y'all think ?

[poak]

+1 on shot placement.

[Guest wheelgunner100]

A well placed shot from either will do the job assuming you are using good ammo. There are no degrees of dead. If your friend thinks the 9mm will only make them mad ask if he will volunteer to let you shoot him with one.

[Guest db99wj]

Shoot until the threat is eliminated. Shot placement is key. 9 is fine.

Next time your friend says "why bother...it won't do anything but p**s'em off" tell him to stand over their and let you piss him off!

[Guest johnnyo]

haha that's funny. I'll have to remember that one.

[Guest darkstar]

I have to agree with everyone else. Shot placement is key as well as good ammo. A good 9mm that will expand will do the job fine. .45 is a very good defensive round no question but with the technology today there are many good 9mm choices as well. I have two Sigs in 9mm and with some 124 gr Gold Dots I feel confident. You can always bump up to the various +P rounds if you feel you need that extra zip.

This is just my personal experience but due to the lower recoil of the 9mm I feel I shoot better with it than with a .45. I can get the sights back on target a lot quicker and have better follow up shots. That may come in handy if ever faced with a threat to my life.

[dariks]

I'm not a ballistics expert or even a gun expert, but I would think that shot placement and velocity (i.e. long-gun) matters much more than the difference between 9mm and .45.

[molonlabetn]

Both have their strengths and weaknesses...

The .45 hits hard and penetrates well, but has greater recoil and lower capacity.

The 9mm is easier to control, generally holds more ammo, and has a flatter trajectory, but it may have less-than-ideal penetration... it is far more sensetive to the quality of the ammunition used.

Getting hit in the head with either one would surely ruin anybody's day...

Alot of people choose the middle ground (.40s&w), which is probably the most versatile option.

[PackinMama]

+1 on the .40 s&w I've owned 9mm and .45......but have ultimately chosen the .40 s&w as my favorite handgun round.

[BigPoppa]

With the .45 it's all about shot placement, with the 9mm it's all about shot placement, with the .38 it's all about shot placement, with the .40 it's all about shot placement, etc. etc. etc.

[Guest DrBoomBoom]

Ty,

Though not by any means an expert, I've read everything online I could find on the subject. In my opinion, the best information comes from the FBI's report on "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" which you can read here: http://www.seark.net/~jlove/handgun_wounding.htm

Combining the FBI info with reading the results of several ballistic comparisons in gel, wetpack and water jugs, I feel well-armed carrying a 9mm with any good quality defensive hollow point.

[Guest canynracer]

The 9mm is easier to control, generally holds more ammo, and has a flatter trajectory, but it may have less-than-ideal penetration... it is far more sensetive to the quality of the ammunition used.

ummm...ok, I am lost...Everyone I have talked to, everything i have read in magazines, and even seen on this board says the 9mm has the tendency to OVER-penetrate because it is moving so fast...Help me out??

To the OP:

I carry a 40...but every once in a while, I carry the 9mm too...I feel that a 9mm is fine, and will do the job nicely. people die with a well placed .22:stir:

gangbangers use .380s and are constantly killing people..

[molonlabetn]

ummm...ok, I am lost...Everyone I have talked to, everything i have read in magazines, and even seen on this board says the 9mm has the tendency to OVER-penetrate because it is moving so fast...Help me out??

To the OP:

I carry a 40...but every once in a while, I carry the 9mm too...I feel that a 9mm is fine, and will do the job nicely. people die with a well placed .22:stir:

gangbangers use .380s and are constantly killing people..

If we're talking about FMJ ammo, yes... even .380 will overpenetrate. And a caliber which will kill doesn't necessarily stop a person immediatly. That requires a massive shock to the system, not a hole which will cause them to pump dry over 30 minutes.

Most expanding 9mm under penetrate. Just look up the Miami shootout for an example... Or: http://www.brassfetcher.com/var919mm.html

Premium 9mm loads do just fine, as I said... 9mm performance is sensetive to the quality of the load used.

[gunsablazin]

I like to compete with a 1911 in .45, I carry a Glock 22 in .40, but the 9 is fine. Your ability to use whatever you choose is far more important the caliber. I still pick on the guys at the range for choosing a "ladies" gun (9mm), but I know better!

[strickj]

I have a friend that says the exact same thing.

I carry a 9mm daily with usually 124g+p gold Dots,which do very well in XD's.Me,I like the fact I can carry 18 rounds,so shot placement,pfft,who needs that,if the SHTF,ill start spraying like those Afghans,Surely Ill hit what Im aiming for eventually

[The Rabbi]

Make mine lean,mean, and 9 by 19!

The 9mm penetrates just fine. Ammo selection is more critical, thus the Miami shootout where cops were using 115gr HP. Of course something like that happens once every, what, century?

I can shoot someone once with a .45acp or 3 times with a 9mm. Both will do the job fine. I dont have any issue with either one but I dont like .40 because it seems to have the limitations of both.

[Guest atomemphis]

The 9 is fine. (Rhyme?)

The 'stopping power' argument is a moot point. Show a typical BG a gun, and he flees. The bang is plenty loud. And a BG with holes in him, whether it kills him instantly or not has a lot more things going through his mind than "i'm getting that guys wallet". Maybe he's thinking "golly, this hurts. I should seek medical attention".

If you are concerned, practice the Mozambique Drill.

And suggest to your friend that he should let you try to 'piss him off'. He's an idiot.

[Guest canynracer]

If we're talking about FMJ ammo, yes... even .380 will overpenetrate..

ahh...ok, thanks!!

And a caliber which will kill doesn't necessarily stop a person immediatly. That requires a massive shock to the system, not a hole which will cause them to pump dry over 30 minutes..

agreed...on the other hand, you shoot to eliminate the threat...so for every 1- 45, I shoot 3-9mm.. (damn, Rabbi beat me to it) (I know, I know...I am just saying...)

Most expanding 9mm under penetrate. Just look up the Miami shootout for an example... Or: http://www.brassfetcher.com/var919mm.html

Premium 9mm loads do just fine, as I said... 9mm performance is sensetive to the quality of the load used.

This makes sense...although we can really say the same for all ammo right? I mean, even a low performance 45 can fail...no?

[Guest db99wj]

Even a .44 to the head doesn't work every time.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6908

[molonlabetn]

ahh...ok, thanks!!

agreed...on the other hand, you shoot to eliminate the threat...so for every 1- 45, I shoot 3-9mm.. (damn, Rabbi beat me to it) (I know, I know...I am just saying...)

This makes sense...although we can really say the same for all ammo right? I mean, even a low performance 45 can fail...no?

Or, just shoot 3 - .45s... realistically. With all of the 12-14+1 .45s on the market now, which are very controllable, there really isn't much difference except some concealability.

The worst that can happen is for a .45 slug to not expand... and even then it's got twice the frontal area of a 9mm. I suppose a light (165-185gr) .45acp load might expand and underpenetrate... but certainly no worse than a 9mm would.

I personally like .357sig... it's got enough oomph to pretty much guarantee penetration and expansion... with more energy than either of the aforementioned.

[PaiMei]

Ty,

Though not by any means an expert, I've read everything online I could find on the subject. In my opinion, the best information comes from the FBI's report on "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" which you can read here: http://www.seark.net/~jlove/handgun_wounding.htm

Combining the FBI info with reading the results of several ballistic comparisons in gel, wetpack and water jugs, I feel well-armed carrying a 9mm with any good quality defensive hollow point.

You nailed it. That report is still considered the holy grail of ballistics reports. I have just about every one of the common calibers in my house, and I choose to carry a 9mm for many reasons. The most important being thats what I train on! When in a gun fight your not going to "rise to the occasion," your going to stoop to the training you can do in your sleep. ALL rounds coming out of a pistol are POOR incapacitaters. Its up to YOU, not your caliber...to place those shots. Remember the .45acp was designed for a 5" barrel. Carrying a really short barrel for the sake of CCW is a compromise in velocity to an already slow bullet. Dont get me wrong .45's are great...when used in the proper gun. Ugh getting off topic here anyways...carry what you train and practice with. But if your walking around with a gun you're scared won't work...why carry it? Carry what you have confidence in. But hey...if you want to shell out MORE MONEY so you can PRACTICE LESS with a round that RECOILS WAY MORE in a gun that CARRIES LESS AMMO...then be HAPPY:)

Edited April 17, 2008 by PaiMei

[Marswolf]

That is a very good read. Highly recommended.

[poak]

All this talk reminds me of something I read in a firearms mag recently (Special Weapons maybe?). The article was a report which interviewed several members of different branches about their service. I'm paraphrasing here but, The author noted "It's kind of funny how much flak the 5.56NATO round has been taking in the world of firearms journalism, but the men who are proudly serving our country seem to think very highly of their M4s"

[Marswolf]

The author noted "It's kind of funny how much flak the 5.56NATO round has been taking in the world of firearms journalism, but the men who are proudly serving our country seem to think very highly of their M4s"

I have to agree. Personally, I prefer the M16 to the M4, but I don't have to get in and out of Hummers on a regular basis.

[Daniel]

I have used a M16A4 in basic, M16A2 in my reserve unit atm and I had a M4A4 in my old unit. I prefer the M4 but that does have alot to do with what mars said on getting in and out of HMMWV, aircraft, and being able to move it around easier in buildings. We pretty much had a SOPMOD M4 so it helped for it to be smaller and weigh less.