Grocery store shooter not charged even though No gun sign posted

[DaveTN]

We certainly don't need another caliber war; everybody knows that the 10MM is the king of the hill but most people are too wimpy to carry it.

It’s a designer round for the sissies that can’t handle the .45ACP.

Like the .357SIG, or the .45GAP; it was the answer to a question that had not been asked. It is a good “conversation piece†though.

Unfortunately for the 10mm shooters the conversation usually turns to physics and generally ends with them hearing; “Its physics, you wouldn’t understandâ€.

[Patton]

No the 40SW was designed for those that were too sissy to handle the 10mm. I can't count the number of times I have heard someone say I got out of 40's and went to just 9mm and 45acp because I didn't like the recoil.

[Patton]

No matter what caliber it's where it lands that counts.

Trooper Mark Hunter Coates, South Carolina Highway Patrol, South Carolina

[k9wh91984]

LOL if the law abiding citizen was carrying a 1911 and shot the guy in the forehead, that would have eliminated just another Wisconsin problem!

[Patton]

LOL if the law abiding citizen was carrying a 1911 and shot the guy in the forehead, that would have eliminated just another Wisconsin problem!

NO!

Quit assuming the turd had brains in his head!

[Guest Kamikaze]

Whoops, didn't mean to start anything.....

[Fallguy]

Not sure why I had to wade through several post about gun calibers, but anyway....glad the customer is ok, the BG was caught and I hope the store owner changes his policy and he now knows the gun isn't good or bad, just the person holding it.

....and for those giving the guy a hard time on connecting on only 2 of 6-7 shots....I hope you do better the next time a shotgun is pointed at you.

[sigbrown1297]

Of course nobody really knows how it would have played out, but my guess is that if the GG didn't intervene, the BG would not have had the shotgun pointed at him. The BG would have taken the money and left. Its a gamble either way. You risk getting shot by intervening and accidentally shooting someone else in the store when you start shooting 6-7 rounds and only hitting your mark twice. Just one stray bullet in a store is no bueno.

My personal opinion is that i carry for myself. If I do not have to intervene I won't. If the gun is pointing at someone else and the perp hasn't fired any shots, i would rather have them walk out with money with zero shots fired from anyone. The risk of the BG start shooting because someone tried to be a hero is not something i am willing to take. And just because you carry doesn't mean you should get involved. He's lucky he didn't shoot anybody else.

Edited February 5, 2012 by sigbrown1297

[cthruit]

A few years back, I was working in an ER..an older black gentleman feeling sorry for himself, had way too much to drink. He decided life was just too much to bear, so he shot himself in the center of the forhead with some kind of little zinc .25 acp. Entry wound with a corresponding exit wound on the back of his head. Powder burns on his forehead, just a little bleeding on the back. He sat and told us all of his problems until he was discharged to family and plans for psych care. The bullet failed to breech the skull, and rode around the inside of the scalp until it broke free on the opposite side. Angle is everything.

But I may have seen more deaths from single small caliber (.22 - 9mm) than any group of large calibers. What you hit matters, so long is it gets through to something vital...fwiw, I carry 9's and .40's, with #4 BB at the bedside.

[Guest cardcutter]

O Kay guys since I am the one who questioned the good guys accuracy I will address this once more. I appreciate that this young man stepped up and did the right thing. I think he should be praised highly and publicly. Now then to the after action report. five wild shots that could have hit an innocent bystander is not a good thing.Accuracy by volume is bunk. The GG had the wherewithal to motion a customer out of the way, to draw and cock his weapon and then wait for the right time to act. this hardly sounds like a blind panic situation. What I am saying is that a little more training or practice or both might be in order.

And as for those who wish to question my ability under fire, I am a combat veteran United States Marine. I have been shot and shot at so you can bite me.

Edited February 6, 2012 by cardcutter

[TMF]

And as for those who wish to question my ability under fire, I am a combat veteran United States Marine. I have been shot and shot at so you can bite me.

Well if that is true you should know that someone who has not been in a two way gunfight before might react much different than someone who has. The fact that he had time to move someone out of the way and have his weapon ready may have actually contriuted to his inaccuracy as his adrenaline spiked in anticipation of a life or death moment.

I've been in plenty of gun fights too when I was still in. I can't remember ever having that moment of panic/fear because I was already prepared mentally and knew that I had a bunch of buddies backing me up. A SD situation like this is completely different; I can't imagine what he was experiencing in the moments that led up to the engagement. What I do know is that it wasn't like shooting paper at the range for this guy, so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming he made a concious decision of "accuracy by volume", and you should too.

Edited February 7, 2012 by TMF 18B

[thefinder808]

As much as I would like to bag on someone's inability to shoot, let's remember that there was a weapon pointing at him when he began to fire. Most people here have only experienced a "one-way" shooting range. Those that have experienced the "two-way" shooting range are aware that your technique may drastically change from what you're used to when shooting at paper... specifically, you have more to worry about than just hitting the target; you have to worry about the target hitting you.

Being able to ignore the instinct to shield yourself from harm and fully commit to an aggressive act is not something most people can do on the fly, especially when they're out shopping for groceries. This is even harder to do than what military/LE experience in a gunfight because they are already mentally committed (for the most part) before entering a decisive engagement and even when reacting to contact (that's why SOPs exist). This mindset alone is a significant difference to that of a citizen out doing their thing.

So what I'm saying is give the guy a break. Chances are he's never had a gun pointed at him before and he's never had to point his gun at anyone either. That can be profound experience for some the first time around. I reason to bet that some of the sh*t talkers might be messing their pants a little if they found themselves looking down the barrel of a hostile weapon. The thing to take away from this is that he chose not to be victimized and a couple of bad guys learned a valuable lesson. It was a brave thing to do and we should recognize that aspect of it.

So true, people need to quit talking about how he needed to improve and applaud him for not freezing under pressure as most people would. He did a good thing and might have saved lives. You critics go ahead and talk about how when you were at the range shooting the picture of the man with a gun it was so easy, just wait until the real thing happens to you. Just hope you react with as much courage as this man.

[JAB]

My personal opinion is that i carry for myself. If I do not have to intervene I won't.

This.

[QuietDan]

Having an HCP and committing to carry might mean your car-kit ought to include a change of underwear . . . kudoes to the good-guy for taking action regardless of his hit-to-miss ratio.

[RobertNashville]

O Kay guys since I am the one who questioned the good guys accuracy.... What I am saying is that a little more training or practice or both might be in order.

And as for those who wish to question my ability under fire, I am a combat veteran United States Marine. I have been shot and shot at so you can bite me.

Sort of stating the obvious here aren't you...current service; prior service, LEO, or just a common ordinary joe, who doesn't need more training and practice???

I appreciate your service and while you may react better than others in a given situation past performance is not a guarantee of future success.

[Guest JMB]

the suspect approach the cashiers holding up a shotgun with the stock cut off and a bag, demanding money in a very agitated way

Obviously he didn't see the sign either or he would have robbed another store.