History is written by the victors

[Guest Lester Weevils]

This seems the most appropriate section, because it seems a (small) example of the second amendment actually serving Jefferson's purpose of standing up against a corrupt gov, and winning, in the post-revolutionary USA.

There were several armed insurrections shortly after the Revolution, but none seemed to benefit the insurrectionists, though surprisingly most rebels were pardoned after the insurrections were put down.

Maybe the gov leaders didn't want to execute a bunch of rebels, causing resentments that would feed further insurrections. Or maybe the people of that generation were not as vengeful against fellow countrymen as some later times in our history. The gov leaders and insurrectionists had fought side-by-side against the brits only a few years earlier.

I'm very ignorant of history but had kinda assumed that there had never been a USA Jefferson-style armed resistance against its own corrupt government which succeeded. I also had the hunch that any such armed resistance in recent history would most likely end up with all resisters either dead or life in prison.

I accidentally found this tiny example of armed resisters actually getting away with it in the USA-- Many of ya'll are better educated in history and already know this-- The details are fascinating if you read the article, which isn't very long but I didn't want to quote the whole thing here.

Battle of Athens (1946) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Battle of Athens (sometimes called the McMinn County War) was a rebellion led by citizens in Athens and Etowah, Tennessee, United States, against the local government in August 1946. The citizens, including some World War II veterans, accused the local officials of political corruption and voter intimidation. The event is sometimes cited by firearms ownership advocates as an example of the value of the Second Amendment in combating tyranny.

If those guys had lost the shootout, am guessing it would have been about the same as other recent cases-- Either dead or a long time in jail. But because they won, they got to write the history book!

Those returning GI's were either really super-peed, or just didn't give a dam, had nuggets the size of grapefruits, or all three. That is some pretty bold action.

Are there other examples of successful USA insurrections? I still think the odds of a victorious insurrection are vanishingly small in the USA, but it was interesting to find an example which succeeded.

I'm not advocating insurrections and hopefully will never be in the vicinity of one. It was just surprising to find a successful example in the post-revolutionary USA.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[TMF]

Battle of Blair Mountain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This one came to mind when I read your post.

I guess nowadays seeing something like this would be pretty far-fetched. With the checks and balances we have, along with 24hr media coverage and YouTube, it would be difficult for local governments to get away with such overt acts of corruption/murder/intimidation. Not to say it couldn't happen, but it would take place after some catastrophic event (natural disaster/economy collapse). An armed revolt requires the people to be willing to put their lives and livelihood on the line, which is unlikely with the standard of living we enjoy. If that were to suddenly end then people would be more apt to defend their rights in the oldest fashion of doing so.

This happens all the time in countries around the world that don't enjoy the freedoms and standard of living that we do. Just about every third world country there is an armed resistance that government forces are in regular battle with. I use Iraq often as an example simply because of my first hand knowledge. I recall during the reconciliation of Sunni rejectionists (during the surge) there being a surprising level of forgiveness from local government organizations (and US military) to those that they were fighting only weeks/months earlier. There was total amnesty with the exception of those that participated in deliberate attacks against civilians.

[Guest cardcutter]

"Those returning GI's were either really super-peed, or just didn't give a dam, had nuggets the size of grapefruits, or all three. That is some pretty bold action."

1. Men of that era "Don't Play!"

2. They had been through the worst the world could throw at them and they were not about to let some piss ant badge push them around.

3. there is a tradition in the old south of standing upto the guvment. from secession to the revenuers.

4. they did indeed have balls that clanked.

All in all the local sherrif picked the wrong time and the wrong men to push around.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

"Those returning GI's were either really super-peed, or just didn't give a dam, had nuggets the size of grapefruits, or all three. That is some pretty bold action."

1. Men of that era "Don't Play!"

2. They had been through the worst the world could throw at them and they were not about to let some piss ant badge push them around.

3. there is a tradition in the old south of standing upto the guvment. from secession to the revenuers.

4. they did indeed have balls that clanked.

All in all the local sherrif picked the wrong time and the wrong men to push around.

Son!! Boy howdy fo show! The essence of hillbilly rambo!

I need to do more reading on this one.

Was googling for an obscure minor historical TN riot. This tn.gov page only describes three "notable" tn historical riots and didn't have the one I was looking for. But saw an account of the McMinn County War at the bottom of the page. It is the only riot of the three on that page that a feller might be unambiguously proud of without studying some. The first on the page is most likely shameful unless I missed details just skimming the text. The second one on the page might be a "he said she said" kinda deal.

TSLA::“Disasters in Tennessee"

That WWII veteran in the middle looks about 14 years old!

Edited February 2, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Oh Shoot]

Nobody was actually killed in the thing.

I grew up in Athens from 5th grade through high school.

There were couple fellers who hung around an old garage who had been participants in that. I hung around the garage because the owner had beau coup dirty pictures.

There is a made for TV movie called An American Story loosely based on it; never have seen it, but looks very loose indeed from a couple of YouTube clips; they set it in Texas, too, for whatever reason.

- OS

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Battle of Blair Mountain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This one came to mind when I read your post.

I guess nowadays seeing something like this would be pretty far-fetched. With the checks and balances we have, along with 24hr media coverage and YouTube, it would be difficult for local governments to get away with such overt acts of corruption/murder/intimidation. Not to say it couldn't happen, but it would take place after some catastrophic event (natural disaster/economy collapse). An armed revolt requires the people to be willing to put their lives and livelihood on the line, which is unlikely with the standard of living we enjoy. If that were to suddenly end then people would be more apt to defend their rights in the oldest fashion of doing so.

This happens all the time in countries around the world that don't enjoy the freedoms and standard of living that we do. Just about every third world country there is an armed resistance that government forces are in regular battle with. I use Iraq often as an example simply because of my first hand knowledge. I recall during the reconciliation of Sunni rejectionists (during the surge) there being a surprising level of forgiveness from local government organizations (and US military) to those that they were fighting only weeks/months earlier. There was total amnesty with the exception of those that participated in deliberate attacks against civilians.

Thanks TMF 18B

Saw a tv show about the Battle of Blair Mountain but didn't recall involvement of the authorities and didn't recall it that big. Dang! The mining company's air forces bombing an advancing regiment of labor unionists! Stunningly hard-core for a 20th Century USA event.

The article said that the labor forces lost the battle but the publicity helped eventually win the war.

I had imagined that a "very expensive eventual success" might be the most optimistic outcome for a modern USA insurrection. An insurrection smaller than full-scale civil war anyway.

The initial action likely resulting in most rebels either dead or in prison. Afterwards the gov would huff and puff about law and order, demonize the insurrection, but quietly make token reforms hoping to avoid future insurrections? Though it might eventually benefit SOMEBODY it would be unlikely to benefit the participants?

Maybe excessively pessimistic but would not expect mass-pardons of rebels nowadays. Perhaps more probable-- Predator missile strikes and helicopter strafing with long gitmo vacations for survivors.

Though not textbook insurrections-- Merely "irrationally stubborn resistance"-- Perhaps Ruby Ridge and the Waco Seige are valid examples? The people involved definitely without doubt soundly got their butts kicked, but the gov did eventually make a few token reforms and policy changes, hoping that it wouldn't happen again.

Urban riots in the 1960's thru 1980's might fit the model? Urban riots were diffuse and less intense than straight-up armed battles. Most participants really did "get away scott free." With the consequence of living in burned-out neighborhoods.

But afterwards the gov bitched and moaned about law and order and started sending lots of money in that direction, hoping to buy em off. So perhaps mid-20th century urban riots are examples of overall-successful insurrections? At least on a medium time frame. If the gov assistance increased dependency and damaged neighborhood integrity, then perhaps it would be short-term loss, medium-term reward, and long-term failure?

Nobody was actually killed in the thing.

I grew up in Athens from 5th grade through high school.

There were couple fellers who hung around an old garage who had been participants in that. I hung around the garage because the owner had beau coup dirty pictures.

There is a made for TV movie called An American Story loosely based on it; never have seen it, but looks very loose indeed from a couple of YouTube clips; they set it in Texas, too, for whatever reason.

- OS

Thanks OS

It is an interesting tale in the ballpark of-- "Man falls out of airplane without parachute but survives with nary a scratch".

Look it up in the encyclopedia-- "Actions you may later regret". The top-left first-page example-- "Go downtown with your buddies for an election day shootout against the sheriff and his deputies." Hey ya'll, watch this! It's never been on my to-do list in Hamilton County.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Guest lostpass]

Nobody was actually killed in the thing.

I grew up in Athens from 5th grade through high school.

There were couple fellers who hung around an old garage who had been participants in that. I hung around the garage because the owner had beau coup dirty pictures.

There is a made for TV movie called An American Story loosely based on it; never have seen it, but looks very loose indeed from a couple of YouTube clips; they set it in Texas, too, for whatever reason.

- OS

Most of my early female anatomy knowledge came from Hustler magazines found at the barber shop my dad took me to. Until I was sixteen or so I fervently believed that the only thing that held a females legs together was their clothes. I don't know if I was disappointed or relieved when I found out the truth.

[Guest cardcutter]

"Most of my early female anatomy knowledge came from Hustler magazines found at the barber shop my dad took me to. Until I was sixteen or so I fervently believed that the only thing that held a females legs together was their clothes. I don't know if I was disappointed or relieved when I found out the truth."

Come on now. Tell the truth! You were just looking for the staples.

[Guest BungieCord]

Mountain Meadows Massacre

On Sept. 11th, 1857, Mormons dressed as Indians under orders of BRIGHAM YOUNG, murdered in cold blood over 140 unarmed men, women and children in Mountain Meadows, Utah. The LDS corporate office to this day , 150 years later, has denied the obvious, Church involvement.

I don't think the settlers put up much resistance but, since the Utah territory then functionally was a Mormon theocracy (which makes the Mormon militia a de facto arm of the state), I'd say Mountain Meadows is the most glistening example to date in American history of the exact scenario James Madison created 2A for.