FBI Uses Chainsaw In Raid On Wrong Fitchburg Apartment

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

Holy Smoke! What would you do?

..and if you did what you wanted to do, it would be a bad scene all around.

This was a 2 year investigation that led to the raids the FBI should have known very well that a woman and a young child lived in that apartment. To me, it would be a good reason to commit a rule 3 violation (rule three is “always know exactly what you are shooting at before you pull the triggerâ€)

FBI Uses Chainsaw In Raid On Wrong Fitchburg Apartment « CBS Boston

[Guest NYCrulesU]

Could have ended badly for many involved.

[Guest drv2fst]

If she had drawn her gun in preparation (even if she never fired it) she would probably be dead now.

[daddyo]

Others who have been the victim of a mistaken address have not fared as well as this woman.

[Guest drv2fst]

In the movies, and in the minds of the tinfoil hat crowd, she would and up dead and they would "find" (read as "plant") meth or crack and call it a good day.

<tinfoil hat> I have to say that's what scares me about these style busts. To me these types of actions by police reminds me of stories you hear about actions by the SS in the late 1930's. Im worried that we give too much power to the authorities. If they have the authority to break down your door like this, then they have too much power.</tinfoil hat>

but I'm sure it was an honest mistake. Hey we can't expect them to be perfect. We are all human.

[ls3_kid]

If this was my apartment we would all be dead right now. Like for real.

[Ebow1]

I didn't read the article, but I am curious as to why the FBI was using a chainsaw to conduct any raid in the firstplace. The only time people ever use chainsaws to get into someone's house is in the movies, and it's always some maniac in a mask trying to brutally murder someone. Regardless of the outcome of the raid I think the FBI needs to seriously reconsider using chainsaws for forced entry.

[mcurrier]

35 MINUTES! On the floor...in dog urine?!?!?! If her dog was older he'd most likely be dead now.

They should have sent the 'apologist' out with a check for $10,000. If this garbage happens to me and isn't corrected IMMEDIATELY ON THE SPOT...there's gonna be a lawsuit and hell to pay. I guess after they read this they'll just shoot me and say I tried for a gun or something.

I do NOT tolerate incompetence at all. Not from employees, not from store clerks, not from people who are supposed to be providing a service to me on my dime, and I certainly won't tolerate incompetence from government employees. Unfortunately, for Fed employees...incompetence is mostly par for the course.

[G27]

but I'm sure it was an honest mistake. Hey we can't expect them to be perfect. We are all human.

I'm assuming this is sarcasm.

[buck1032]

As ls3 kid said, had it been me it would have ended up very, very bad. Anytime someone is using a chain saw on my door rounds, and I mean LOTS of round will be heading out that door! Chainsaw? Cheese and freaking rice, every agent on scene and every one that signed off on the use of said chainsaw should be fired.

[Guest drv2fst]

I'm assuming this is sarcasm.

or me just trying to convince myself ...

[Garufa]

After two years of investigation they can't get the address right?

[Guest Scramasax]

Unfortunatly the FBI has a track record of this kind of abuse and mistakes. Like anything else It puts good agents on the defensive. Chainsaw at the front door... I'm headding for the back and shooting at anything above 3 feet (don't want to hit one of the dogs. Dailing 911 on the way and reporting a deadly assault. Hopefully I'll get that far. Next call will be to the local news and then my lawyer. Next would be for an ambulance because I have a heart condition and am disabled. Also my security company would have a fun time with this. Hopfully the agents wouldn't go to the back and shoot the dogs to silence them. Then My 4x4 would tear up plenty of back yards getting out of there. Soo much liability If I survived my family would be taken care of well. Don't dwell on it but it has crossed my mind. We've had two murders, a hostage situation, and two drug bust on my street. This is due to the original home owners dying off, not being able to sell the houses and turning them into rental property.

I know this is a long post .

Cheers,

ts

[DaveTN]

That very thing did happen here… in Lebanon a few years ago. Police had the wrong house number, kicked the door, the old man in the house grabbed a shotgun and they killed him. They didn’t try to plant any drugs or act like it wasn’t a mistake; it was. I think the lead investigator was even charged criminally, but if I remember right charges were dismissed.

The wife sued a got a settlement, the amount was never released, but I bet it was a bunch.

Just like the raid in this story it was incompetence; there isn’t any other name you can put on it. I understand that Police can make mistakes, but the very instance they realize a mistake has been made they should be trying to make it right. It didn’t take 35 minutes to discover they were in the wrong apartment. That means they held her on the floor while they tried to figure out what to do….. That should be criminal and charges should be brought.

Chain Saw?? Give me a break.

I hate to see cops busting into houses with subdued clothing and wearing masks; there is no need for it. The Chiefs and Sheriffs that allow it should be ashamed.

I’m glad this woman wasn’t injured, but I’m sure she now and forever suffers from PTSD; and she needs to get paid.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

In the movies, and in the minds of the tinfoil hat crowd, she would and up dead and they would "find" (read as "plant") meth or crack and call it a good day.

<tinfoil hat> I have to say that's what scares me about these style busts. To me these types of actions by police reminds me of stories you hear about actions by the SS in the late 1930's. Im worried that we give too much power to the authorities. If they have the authority to break down your door like this, then they have too much power.</tinfoil hat>

And the hits keep coming! Far be it from me to ever wear tinfoil.

I'm just grateful that this kind of carp at least keeps drugs off the street. It's for the children. That alone justifies our toleration of the few vanishingly rare and microscopically trivial errors which occasionally happen.

You know what would really suck? If there existed some horrible distopian alternate universe identical to ours in every way, except that drugs were easier to get on the street corner than in the pharmacy-- An alternate universe where jackboot tactics had miserably failed to control the drug problem, but stuff like this would keep happening to ordinary citizens anyway! Now that would really suck!

Kathryn Johnston shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kathryn Johnston (June 26, 1914 - November 21, 2006) was an elderly Atlanta, Georgia woman who was shot by undercover police officers in her home on Neal Street in northwest Atlanta on November 21, 2006, where she had lived for 17 years. Three officers had entered her home in what was later described as a 'botched' drug raid. Officers cut off burglar bars and broke down her door using a no-knock warrant. Police said Johnston fired at them and they fired in response; she fired one shot out the door over the officers' heads and they fired 39 shots, five or six of which hit her. None of the officers were injured by her gunfire, but Johnston was killed by the officers. Police injuries were later attributed to "friendly fire" from each others' weapons.

One of the officers planted marijuana in Johnston's house after the shooting. Later investigations found that the paperwork stating that drugs were present at Johnston's house, which had been the basis for the raid, had been falsified. The officers later admitted to having lied when they submitted cocaine as evidence claiming that they had bought it at Johnston's house.

Three officers were tried for manslaughter and other charges surrounding falsification and were sentenced to ten, six, and five years respectively.

Luckily the Kathryn Johnston tragedy prompted police nation-wide to abandon the routine use of no-knock warrants, which for instance averted the tragic death of a young ex-marine in Tucson Arizona a few years later.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[G27]

I remember years ago, when I was living in Central Florida, the police executed one of these 'raid warrants', complete with flash-bang type grenades on the wrong house (drug dealer's house was next door). When the front door was kicked in and grenades went off almost immediately, the man armed himself and dropped behind some cover. He ended up shooting and killing three officers before everyone understood who the other was. The man - miraculously - wasn't killed (though iirc he was shot) but the police wanted him charged with the slaying of the three officers. It was in court for what seemed like forever before he was exonerated (thankfully) and he went on to sue the police and eventually won.

I was pretty young and naive at the time, but even then I couldn't believe he could be charged for defending himself against unknown attackers. Only as I got older did I realize how often this happens (wrong address for a no-knock raid) and who lucky he was not to be killed / executed.

No-knock warrants are ridiculous - it's unbelievably dangerous if they get the wrong house. They should be illegal.

[Slpeod]

Amazed at how fortunate this woman and her child were, hopefully she is compensated for any "Damages" she or her child received. I like others would probably have put things in motion that would have affected a different out come. Chainsaw??? Castle doctrine?? Rounds are definitely going through the door before they make entry, how recognition would occur and deescalation if possible after that - questionable at the most.

[TSprint1]

"That very thing did happen here… in Lebanon a few years ago. Police had the wrong house number, kicked the door, the old man in the house grabbed a shotgun and they killed him. They didn’t try to plant any drugs or act like it wasn’t a mistake; it was. I think the lead investigator was even charged criminally, but if I remember right charges were dismissed.

The wife sued a got a settlement, the amount was never released, but I bet it was a bunch."

Lt Nokes of the Lebanon Police Dept led that raid. He was fired from the police department and charged with lying in order to obtain the search warrant for the wrong address. His firing stuck but he was acquitted by a jury on all charges which included either 2 or 3 felony charges. The media, here in Wilson County, has reported several times that the widow received $400,000 as a settlement from the City of Lebanon - paid by their insurance company. Nothing about this entire episode passed the smell test.

[Guest NYCrulesU]

That very thing did happen here… in Lebanon a few years ago. Police had the wrong house number, kicked the door, the old man in the house grabbed a shotgun and they killed him. They didn’t try to plant any drugs or act like it wasn’t a mistake; it was. I think the lead investigator was even charged criminally, but if I remember right charges were dismissed.

The wife sued a got a settlement, the amount was never released, but I bet it was a bunch.

Just like the raid in this story it was incompetence; there isn’t any other name you can put on it. I understand that Police can make mistakes, but the very instance they realize a mistake has been made they should be trying to make it right. It didn’t take 35 minutes to discover they were in the wrong apartment. That means they held her on the floor while they tried to figure out what to do….. That should be criminal and charges should be brought.

Chain Saw?? Give me a break.

I hate to see cops busting into houses with subdued clothing and wearing masks; there is no need for it. The Chiefs and Sheriffs that allow it should be ashamed.

I’m glad this woman wasn’t injured, but I’m sure she now and forever suffers from PTSD; and she needs to get paid.

Well said! I agree 100%.

[Guest NYCrulesU]

Here's some related news...

Senate: Citizens Should Have Right To Resist - Politics News Story - WRTV Indianapolis

[Wyldk2]

the thing is, when these officers make mistakes, they are not really held accountable. They might get a reprimand, even a couple days suspended with or without pay pending the result of another investigation. And even if a court settlement is awarded i seriously doubt the original police involved actually pay any restitution out of pocket. It may come from the city or its insurance company. But in reallity it is paid nonetheless by the Taxpayer. So we the sheep are paying for these officers mistakes. I know with any job mistakes can be made, but any figure with that kind of responsibility should be held to higher standards than the average joe. If they would all do their research, double check and not "rush" to make a bust, then the innocent person(s) would not be victimized by the mistakes of those that are trying to enforce the law.

[TMF]

I didn't read the article, but I am curious as to why the FBI was using a chainsaw to conduct any raid in the firstplace. The only time people ever use chainsaws to get into someone's house is in the movies, and it's always some maniac in a mask trying to brutally murder someone. Regardless of the outcome of the raid I think the FBI needs to seriously reconsider using chainsaws for forced entry.

I'm sure it was a "quickie" saw, not an actual chainsaw. Quickie saws are used all the time for entry and they are absolutely awesome at it. The reporter probably jacked it up for the same reason that all rifles are "AK-47s" and all pistols are "Glocks".

[TMF]

I thought the same thing when I saw this story the first time, "what if that was my house?" I would hope that in that unlikely event of mistaken identity the police would identify themselves before/during entry. Even then I don't know what I'd do since I would not have any proof that they were actually law enforcement. I believe that's why we have warrants in the first place so that they are presented to the owner of the property and executed.

If LE agencies are going to execute "no-knock" warrants they'd better get their crap together. I'm sure they do many of these without hitting the wrong house, but the margin for error is enough that they should only reserve these for cases that warrant it, and, when they do, make sure to know the friggin' address!

Putting things in perspective: I have an alarm system on my home which is activated before I put my head down at night. If that alarm system (which is quite loud) was to wake me up in the middle of the night I know the state I would wake up in; combat mode. Unfogging your head at that point is impossible, especially with a 130 db of alarm going off. Add that to the sound of somebody trying to make forced entry into my home... well, I don't think I'd have a choice at that point. I wouldn't know who they were, I would just know that they had intent to do me harm. (I've actually had to do this before when the alarm went off due to the garage door being ajar, then swinging open from the suction of my HVAC a few hours after falling asleep thus activating said alarm. I had cleared two floors before even realizing I was completely naked. My wife had a good laugh at that one... still does.)

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I was wondering if it was a chainsaw bayonet.

I believe that's why we have warrants in the first place so that they are presented to the owner of the property and executed.

It is a more desirable outcome to execute the warrant rather than the homeowner!

Edited February 2, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Guest dubaholic2]

If I hear a chainsaw outside my door, they are going to hear a .44 inside my house.